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post #81 of 99

And if someone dug up something I said and threw it at ... go for it.  I'm sure there will be plenty of opportunities to do so.  I'd prefer people understood what I was about when they commented and especially if I asked for help with a situation. 

post #82 of 99
[quote name="Imakcerka" url=  Maybe I'm wrong, I probably am. 

nod.gif
post #83 of 99

This situation just reminds me of our neighborhood and my older son, now 17.  He has Asperger's and ADHD.  The neighborhood kids would all play in the next yard, jumping around loudly on the trampoline and having a blast right under our window, and he was never invited.  He was so uncoordinated, had poor social skills, and was completely clumsy in just about everything.   He wanted to play but didn't know how to go about it.  Still breaks my heart thinking about it today, even though it happened over a decade ago now. 

 

I, too, sat in my house crying many times (and I'm FROM here, grew up here, not even new).  I wondered what people thought when my son had a loud meltdown outside or by the car.  I guess I have my answer from some of the responses here. 

 

Just because it appears that she doesn't effectively discipline her children - maybe like me she is struggling to find out what works for her particular children.  In my son's case, I literally tried it ALL, found that natural consequences work best, but they aren't the "quick fix" that most other parents want to see.  I carried my son out of so many places he was melting down in or had run into uninvited, that my back was shot for years and I even broke my wedding band in half carrying him from the mall so he wouldn't injure himself during a meltdown.  

 

I'm glad, OP, that you did post about this subject.  It also warms my heart that there are so many kind-hearted mamas here sticking up for kids who may be "new" or "different" for whatever reason. 

post #84 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adaline'sMama View Post

Elus0814,
I cant quote you because of the way you quoted me and all the bolding you did, but this is in response mainly to your assertion that the OP is being " beyond neighborly" for giving these kids a second chance.
They are KIDS. You give them second, third, fourth, and tenth chances. They are CHILDREN who are learning and growing, not adults who have formed personalities. The idea that children should have to make a good first impression for them to be accepted by the adults in the neighborhood is absolutely absurd to me. I believe you to be a slightly awful person if you dont allow children second chances, especially if you know that they are new, and especially if you suspect that there may be issues you dont know about (whatever may have happened before they were adopted, transitioning to a new school, ect.) Its not "beyond neighborly" its called being the adult. Putting your big girl panties on.
And as for my pointing out that this has happened in a wealthy neighborhood, yes, it is exactly the type of place that I expect to find this type of behavior. Cliquish, passively racist, snooty behavior where someone's kids are more entitled to have a good time than someone else's kids. The OP is the one who started smack talking the other woman's house. The OP is the one who has some idea that her children and the other children are more entitled to time together than the new kids. The OP has come and given reasons and excuses for almost all of what she said in her first post, which feels like a lot of backtracking if you want my opinion about it.
I feel so sorry for that woman and her children. Honestly, I would be crying myself to sleep at night with anxiety about how I bought a house in the wrong neighborhood.
Here is the bottom line:
You are outside. When you are outside, you have no control over what other kids do and dont want to do. When you are playing on the sidewalk, in the street, or even in your front yard it is absurd to assume that someone else wouldnt want to play. These are children we are talking about. Dont dangle candy in their face if they arent allowed to have it. Its common sense.


I'm not sure if you've read the entire thread carefully. The OP has talked about how she's given these kids several chances and how they continue to be mean to her children. I, and most every other kind adult, do give children multiple chances but when they are still behaving poorly it might be time to say 'sorry, no more chances for awhile'. If there were any kids, new or otherwise, who treated my family the way the OP describes the way the new kids treat her and her children I would no longer allow those kids in my yard and I would be ok with my kids telling the new kids they don't wish to play with them when outside our yard (although I do recognize that my kids couldn't make the new kids play elsewhere). The OP has talked about the new kids throwing rocks, calling other children names, being generally mean (I assume pushing, taking toys, and so on), and barging into her house uninvited. I'm with her if she were to tell the new kids that enough is enough, maybe there will be more chances later but for now, if I were her, I would not be giving out any more chances. 

 

I would like to add that calling me 'a slightly awful person' and telling me/OP to 'put your big girl panties on' does not add to the conversation. Let's keep it on track and remove the insults from your posts.

 

post #85 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by elus0814 View Post

I'm not sure if you've read the entire thread carefully. The OP has talked about how she's given these kids several chances and how they continue to be mean to her children. I, and most every other kind adult, do give children multiple chances but when they are still behaving poorly it might be time to say 'sorry, no more chances for awhile'. If there were any kids, new or otherwise, who treated my family the way the OP describes the way the new kids treat her and her children I would no longer allow those kids in my yard and I would be ok with my kids telling the new kids they don't wish to play with them when outside our yard (although I do recognize that my kids couldn't make the new kids play elsewhere). The OP has talked about the new kids throwing rocks, calling other children names, being generally mean (I assume pushing, taking toys, and so on), and barging into her house uninvited. I'm with her if she were to tell the new kids that enough is enough, maybe there will be more chances later but for now, if I were her, I would not be giving out any more chances. 

 

I would like to add that calling me 'a slightly awful person' and telling me/OP to 'put your big girl panties on' does not add to the conversation. Let's keep it on track and remove the insults from your posts.

 



And by the OPs own admission her kids and others have been mean and poorly behaved towards these new children, have been hurtful and exclusionary, the neighbourhood has been unwelcoming in general to this new family, and one family has gone far enough to list their house in order to avoid these neighbours. There is MORE than enough to go around and seeing as the OP is the only one we can address, most of us are saying that she needs to see how her initial perceptions and behaviour could have started this whole ball rolling. And so she has both the responsibility and the capability to turn the bus around.

I appreciate that the OP has come back to this thread, which is no doubt a hard one to read, and that she has been willing to say that the perspectives offered, even those which were framed unkindly, have helped her to see things differently.

The fact of the matter is that a family is HURTING as a result of the actions of this neighbourhood, and that within that context, the behaviour of these new boys makes sense.

It's immature and unkind and a whole host of other things at this point for the OP not to take some responsibility and do what can be done to repair those relationships and see if there is a way to start over.

Your continued assumption that the OP has no responsibility to try again is short sighted and frankly impractical, given that she wants to create and sustain the kid friendly, free range type of community she is accustomed to. There is no way to do that without putting on the big girl panties, making amends and trying again.

 

post #86 of 99
Ill remove bits and pieces from my post when a mod tells me to, and only then. I stand by what I said, and I fully believe it. How can anyone expect children who are being excluded to behave?
post #87 of 99

So... when is it okay to exclude?  I will admit that we have excluded some kids for a time period.  Kind of like a neighborhood time out.  However an offense was committed.  One boy shot BB's at kids and vehicles.  After conferring with his parents it was decided that he needed to stay away for a day, lost his gun ( why he had it?  not sure)  and apologize to the kids and parents.  He was allowed back to play and it's been left behind.   I push for value in all kids.  He made a mistake and it got out of hand.  However he's back playing near my house and on my driveway shooting hoops.  We've had no problems since and most of us feel like we can trust him again.  When I bring out all the pumpkins we grew this summer he will be among the kids carving on my yard.  He does have some issues, but he also has and immense amount of VALUE!  And it's worth it to me at least to give him lots of chances. 

post #88 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adaline'sMama View Post

Ill remove bits and pieces from my post when a mod tells me to, and only then. I stand by what I said, and I fully believe it. How can anyone expect children who are being excluded to behave?

 

Wow, just wow. I can't believe that someone preaching about being nice to and including all children, even those who aren't very nice, can say very rude things and not apologize for or remove the hurtful comments. 

 

Maybe if adults speak kindly to other adults, even those they don't know, the children of the world would play in a way that includes everyone. smile.gif

post #89 of 99


Theres quite a difference in Adults and children.  Their emotional development should not be on par with adults and so it's a obvious that that is a non issue.  Unless you're trying to nit pick at the posters you don't agree with? 

Quote:
Originally Posted by elus0814 View Post

 

Wow, just wow. I can't believe that someone preaching about being nice to and including all children, even those who aren't very nice, can say very rude things and not apologize for or remove the hurtful comments. 

 

Maybe if adults speak kindly to other adults, even those they don't know, the children of the world would play in a way that includes everyone. smile.gif



 

post #90 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by elus0814 View Post

 

Wow, just wow. I can't believe that someone preaching about being nice to and including all children, even those who aren't very nice, can say very rude things and not apologize for or remove the hurtful comments. 

 

Maybe if adults speak kindly to other adults, even those they don't know, the children of the world would play in a way that includes everyone. smile.gif



I didn't read any of those comments directed at you specifically and more as a general you.  I have to say though I find your continued assertions that these particular children in this particular situation are unworthy of more compassion and consideration quite sad. They are just kids -lonely excluded uprooted kids. And I think your last line speaks volumes. If you want to be treated nicely, it has to start with treating others that way. In this case the old timers have far less adjusting to do than the new kids, and are able to give the gift of friendship and inclusion in a way the new children aren't. Why not encourage our kids to do their best, rather than what is easy.  

 

post #91 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karenwith4 View Post

And by the OPs own admission her kids and others have been mean and poorly behaved towards these new children, have been hurtful and exclusionary, the neighbourhood has been unwelcoming in general to this new family, and one family has gone far enough to list their house in order to avoid these neighbours. There is MORE than enough to go around and seeing as the OP is the only one we can address, most of us are saying that she needs to see how her initial perceptions and behaviour could have started this whole ball rolling. And so she has both the responsibility and the capability to turn the bus around.

I appreciate that the OP has come back to this thread, which is no doubt a hard one to read, and that she has been willing to say that the perspectives offered, even those which were framed unkindly, have helped her to see things differently.

The fact of the matter is that a family is HURTING as a result of the actions of this neighbourhood, and that within that context, the behaviour of these new boys makes sense.

It's immature and unkind and a whole host of other things at this point for the OP not to take some responsibility and do what can be done to repair those relationships and see if there is a way to start over.

Your continued assumption that the OP has no responsibility to try again is short sighted and frankly impractical, given that she wants to create and sustain the kid friendly, free range type of community she is accustomed to.


I'm really wondering if there are other things going on besides simple exclusion of some kids from neighborhood play. The fact that a family would go so far as to list their house for sale to get away from the new neighbors raises a big red flag to me about the possibility of there being more to this story than the OP has time or inclination to type out. 

 

I don't think I would go so far as to say she has a responsibility to turn things around with the new family. If she wants her old neighborhood dynamic back then maybe she should make the effort but her responsibility is to her own children and family first and if the new neighbors are creating a toxic play environment that neither she nor her children are enjoying then for the time being she might have to try to right it for her her kids before tackling bigger neighborhood wide problems.

 

I see two sides to this. The OP's kids were not as nice or as welcoming as they could have been. The new kids should not have behaved the way they have, part of being the new kid on the block means going along with how the play already is and not complaining that it's not the game you want or not running down the street at the first sight of another child. Part of the problem is that the OP didn't talk with her kids about how to incorporate the new kids into their group or her kids didn't handle that task correctly. Part of the problem is the new kids not being very nice and being allowed by their parents to constantly be around whenever other kids are out, going so far as to walk into the homes of other neighbors. I really do think that the mom of the new kids should be trying to make things right and talking with other parents when she's in a place where she can do so without breaking down and crying. I see a lack of communication on all sides.

post #92 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karenwith4 View Post

I didn't read any of those comments directed at you specifically and more as a general you.  I have to say though I find your continued assertions that these particular children in this particular situation are unworthy of more compassion and consideration quite sad. They are just kids -lonely excluded uprooted kids. And I think your last line speaks volumes. If you want to be treated nicely, it has to start with treating others that way. In this case the old timers have far less adjusting to do than the new kids, and are able to give the gift of friendship and inclusion in a way the new children aren't. Why not encourage our kids to do their best, rather than what is easy.  

 



Some of that poster's comments I felt were directed at me, I don't think she liked what I was saying. That's ok, we all have different opinions, but nasty comments should be directed at the situation and not another poster. I was 'speaking' respectfully and I expect that others 'speak' respectfully back, if she had a not so nice comment it shouldn't have been directed at me personally.

 

I never said the new kids in the OP were not "worthy of more compassion...." but I do think it's unrealistic for those here to expect the OP to brush aside her own feelings and those of her children to continue to endlessly pursue friendship with kids their family doesn't want to be friends with.

post #93 of 99
In my world,"speaking kindly" includes not being condescending towards others smile.gif I read the whole thread. I see no need for an apology, as I feel like I said how I felt as kindly as possible. Honestly, I feel a lot more passionately about the OP and people who share the general "why should my kids have to play with the new kids? Its not fair." mentality than I have let on. Quite honestly, Im not going to apologize for asking people to act like grown ups instead of teenage girls snubbing people in the lunchroom. I dont understand what the problem is unless you dont give kids multiple chances. I specifically said that I thought you would be a slightly awful person if you dont give kids second chances. Are you, in fact, that kind of person? If not, then my comment doesnt apply to you. If so, then I'm sorry that I feel like you are a slightly awful person for expecting children to behave, make a good first impression, and not giving them multiple chances.
post #94 of 99
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Imakcerka View Post

 I believe the OP also started a thread about what to do about her mortgage that their family could no longer afford. 



???  Respectfully, you have me confused with someone else.  I have started 60 threads in my time at MDC.  Never discussed our ability to pay our mortgage??? You had better believe I won't be rushing to post in the future.  Go ahead and re-do your military-grade research before you insult me with falsehoods.

 


Edited by sunflower.mama - 10/17/11 at 8:56pm
post #95 of 99
Thread Starter 

Mods...I am done.  I can't believe people have the time or interest to post things like this.  Was I really just accused of being a jealous passively racist jerk?  Wow. I thought people were not supposed to post such overt hostility.  I think I have reached my limit on being insulted.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by treeoflife3 View Post

 

why, you're practically mother Teresa!!  ROTFLMAO.gif

 

You shouldn't have to tell people 'No really!  I'm so nice I even HUGGED HER FOR A MINUTE!!' to prove you aren't just some jealous passively racist jerk who wants to use your kids as an excuse for excluding the new people.  That's like someone saying 'no really, I'm not sexist... I even let my wife get a short haircut!'

 

also?  I just love how the story keeps changing.  The situation just gets worse and worse the more people DON'T agree with you.  funny how that always seems to happen in threads where people just won't side with the OP.



 

post #96 of 99
Well then I'm wrong. And I apologize.
post #97 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunflower.mama View Post

Mods...I am done.  I can't believe people have the time or interest to post things like this.  Was I really just accused of being a jealous passively racist jerk?  Wow. I thought people were not supposed to post such overt hostility.  I think I have reached my limit on being insulted. 

 



can't say i blame you one bit, OP. 

post #98 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunflower.mama View Post

Mods...I am done.  I can't believe people have the time or interest to post things like this.  Was I really just accused of being a jealous passively racist jerk?  Wow. I thought people were not supposed to post such overt hostility.  I think I have reached my limit on being insulted. 

 


You are, right now, in the same position as that mother. feeling misunderstood, alienated and sad about it all. Difference is, you can shut the browser and leave it. She can't leave her, as you put it, "McMansion", that easily, nor hope the new neighbors will be more welcoming and accepting.

 

post #99 of 99

I'm locking this again because its devolved into attacks and name calling which is against the UA.

 

I'm not sure if it will be re opened or not at this point.

 

The OP said she was willing to listen to other viewpoints but unfortunately folks are having a hard time keeping it respectful and the fruits of that kind of behavior is thread closure.

 

Sorry.  

 

 

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