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Is this for real or an onion? Anthrax vaccine trials in children? - Page 2

post #21 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Imakcerka View Post

I am saying, I have yet to actually see real concrete evidence that shows deaths in the US from Anthrax.  A news article?  Wiki?  Not my kind of sources. 



 

here was an elderly woman in my state who died from anthrax after she opened her mail and inhaled it. 

http://articles.cnn.com/2001-11-22/health/anthrax.death_1_inhalation-anthrax-anthrax-strain-anthrax-cases?_s=PM:HEALTH

 

it was in every newspaper in my state

post #22 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Imakcerka View Post

I am saying, I have yet to actually see real concrete evidence that shows deaths in the US from Anthrax.  A news article?  Wiki?  Not my kind of sources. 



So you're saying that all the news coverage, investigations, government reports, buildings being shut down, millions and millions of cleanup/decontamination costs etc. were all some sort of giant conspiracy?  What then do you propose was wrong with the people who died of Anthrax or just were very sick with it?  

 

What are your kind of sources?

post #23 of 44

How bout this, I don't do conspiracy. I get my information somewhere else and all that matters is you believe what you believe and I'll believe what I believe.

 

By the way the problem with believing everything you read and hear from the media is that opinion colors truth.   I'm sure you met all these people and have heard their first hand experience with Anthrax.  Also if you do a little history research you'd understand that the Media can be used to sway the mindset of the populace. 

 

Rahm Emmanuel was once quoted as saying you should never pass on an opportunity to take advantage of a crisis.  What do you think he meant by that?

post #24 of 44

Pers....are you pro doing antrax vaccine trials on children?

 

 

post #25 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by kathymuggle View Post

Pers....are you pro doing antrax vaccine trials on children?

 

 


As I said before, 

Quote:
Originally Posted by pers View Post

I find this troubling, but I don't know enough about how likely it is that there will be future anthrax attacks or the vaccine and it's potential risks to have an opinion either for or against it.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by pers View Post

and like I said, I don't actually have an opinion on this because I don't know enough about why their reasons for considering this or the vaccine to have one.  


I realize my first post in this thread may make me appear in firmly in the pro camp, but just to be clear, that was in response to an article someone missposted to this thread regarding malaria vaccine trials, not anthrax.  While anthrax is a theoretical risk, malaria is a real threat that kills a million people every year, many of them children, and seriously sickens many millions more. So long as they are cautious and inform parents and such (and I do not know the particulars of this trial), I am for testing of malaria vaccines.  

 

...

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Imakcerka View Post

How bout this, I don't do conspiracy. I get my information somewhere else and all that matters is you believe what you believe and I'll believe what I believe.

 

By the way the problem with believing everything you read and hear from the media is that opinion colors truth.   I'm sure you met all these people and have heard their first hand experience with Anthrax.  Also if you do a little history research you'd understand that the Media can be used to sway the mindset of the populace. 

 

Rahm Emmanuel was once quoted as saying you should never pass on an opportunity to take advantage of a crisis.  What do you think he meant by that?

 

Okay then.  But in this particular case you have yet to give any reason why all the many media reports and government reports should be doubted, any reasons why the massive amount of people needed to fake something like this would do it and keep silent, any reason for the buildings being closed and decontaminated, why the people were sick and some died, and why none of their families or the many nurses who would have been involved in their care etc. didn't speak up if their symptoms and treatment did not at least closely resemble what would be expected for anthrax.  Were all these families and health care workers in on it too?  And just who did benefit or have the advantage?

 

Sorry, but random, nameless stranger on the internet saying "i know something you don't know, but I'm not going to tell you what, back it up at all, or tell you how I know, nyah nyah nyah," well.. what's the point?

post #26 of 44

Pers, some random people who haven't seen Anthrax in the US since the 40's and it was 1 case can know for sure it was Anthrax?

 

Do you know the signs of Anthrax? 

 

All I'm saying is that you can be ruled by fear if you want.  Vaccines are profit.  Some are good not all are necessary.  You can get a group of people to believe anything you want.  Did they want them to think it was Anthrax... never know.  However, you tell people there was Anthrax in the building and more often than not people will be "Sick".   I just think it's important to not see in black and white and to view things in shades of gray. 

 

Go ahead and believe everything they tell you don't question anything!  And by the way are you serious?  Do you not think our Government lies?  Has the Media not been known to spread falsehoods depending on need?  If you think I'm making that up you should get off this forum and do a little digging.  Maybe step outside and ask a random person if they fully believe the Media and the Government. 

 

 

post #27 of 44

Also Pers they screamed Anthrax... and thus we feared it was Anthrax. 

post #28 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Imakcerka View Post

  Do you not think our Government lies?  Has the Media not been known to spread falsehoods depending on need?  If you think I'm making that up you should get off this forum and do a little digging.  Maybe step outside and ask a random person if they fully believe the Media and the Government. 

I'm confused. If neither the government nor media sources are to be trusted at all, where do you suggest people get their information about anything? Where do you get yours?
post #29 of 44

Ok, when a story comes out the first thing I do is I search at least 10 different sites for information pertaining to the story.  I look for consistent information, I notice the inconsistencies and then I fact check beyond that through other means.  Why not?  It's not that the Media can't be trusted but they don't always tell the whole story.  They sensationalize headlines and leave out little bits of information that might be important, maybe not to them in their rush but to others who may be asking how can you have a full story with so little real content.  I'm not saying don't trust the Government however each party has a way of bringing lies to light.  Don't you notice that or pay attention to that?  I never believe anything to the fullest.  That could just be me and the type of person I am.  I don't walk around paranoid but I'm always thinking... is that really how it happened? 

post #30 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Imakcerka View Post

Ok, when a story comes out the first thing I do is I search at least 10 different sites for information pertaining to the story. 

But what are those ten sites that you trust? Or do you mean that you look at ten different media/government sites in general, in order to suss out inconsistencies and such? And once you find them, what are the "other means" you use to fact-check?
post #31 of 44

I haven't read this entire thread, but I just wanted to add that I heard this on the way home on NPR!

 

Here is a link as to why/what: http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/health/2011/10/27/how-to-test-the-anthrax-vaccine-in-children/

 

I am usually okay with vaccines, but this really freaks me out.  I would not participate in something like this. 

post #32 of 44

People who have been on the "inside" and know what is really going on. Those who have retired, or left to work elsewhere, who have the knowledge about certain organizations. I find them to be more credible than the controlled media, full of catchy talking points.

 

Gwen Olson, a former pharmaceutical sales rep: http://www.gwenolsen.com/

 

post #33 of 44


You have to look around really.  Sometimes I use outside media such as other countries.  What vested interest do they have in some of our news.  Not much unless it's related to "other" things.  The other means would be historical data.  Trends things like that.  I will use mainstream because there could be truth in what they say.  I don't automatically discount anything, but I do question.  I think everyone should.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zinemama View Post


But what are those ten sites that you trust? Or do you mean that you look at ten different media/government sites in general, in order to suss out inconsistencies and such? And once you find them, what are the "other means" you use to fact-check?


 

post #34 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bokonon View Post

 

Yeah, actually I think of it as more like a malicious prank than an attack.  Sorry to confuse you, but I do appreciate the condescension. 
 

 


Wow, the implications of this statement are really racist and xenophobic. So, what, only brown foreign people perform terrorist attacks on the American population? I bet the Oklahoma City bombing was merely a prank too, huh?

 



Quote:
Originally Posted by Imakcerka View Post

Problem is, I was working Intel during 9/11.  There is no evidence that supports your claim.  As far as Anthrax being deadly.  Yes it is.  However the first set of Americans that got the Anthrax vaccine will not tell you it's harmless.  My brother will not tell you it's harmless.  Pick and choose I say.  Now of course we can all hope they have made some advances in that department.  Hope.  I will not be fear mongered.  I spent my time in the military world and I'm well aware of how to read between the lines. 
 



 


Yes, this is very believable. If the 2001 anthrax attacks were all a hoax, former "Intel" would totally be blabbing that information on a public forum in casual conversation.

 

post #35 of 44

Asyouwish....do you have children?  Are you Ok with them being part of anthrax vaccine trials?

 

I think a lot of this thread is so OT, and is really more involved in trying to discredit posters rather than discuss the topic at hand - which is whether or not Anthrax vaccine trials on children are appropriate for children.  Sad.

 

Antrax does not seem like a huge threat.  Pers noted 5 people died, what, 10 years ago?  Imakcerka is questionning that.  Either way - it is somewhat moot.  Antrax is not a huge threat as far as I can tell.  If someone has further info on possible upcoming threats on Antrax I would like to see it.  

 

 

I would really like to know if anyone posting or lurking is pro anthrax vaccines trials on children - and if they would be willing to put their money where their mouth is and sign up their children.

 

 

 

post #36 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsYouWish View Post


Wow, the implications of this statement are really racist and xenophobic. So, what, only brown foreign people perform terrorist attacks on the American population? I bet the Oklahoma City bombing was merely a prank too, huh?

 

 

 



What?  Wow, you're really reading a lot into it.  No, it doesn't matter who was the culprit for the anthrax mailings - I just don't see it as an attack.  And no, I don't see Oklahoma City as being a prank.  The point I was trying to make was that anthrax is being touted as a concern because of the boogeyman - AKA al Qaeda and such, when the last time anthrax was a concern, it had nothing to do with al Qaeda at all, though at first, the government and media tried to scare us into believing that it did.  Yeah, but *I'm* racist and xenophobic?  Hardly.

post #37 of 44
Thread Starter 

Well my earlier question stands, I would like to know who enrolls their children into this trial. I really, really do. Cause it's pretty insane to me and I wonder who would sign up their children or if as suggested by some posters kids in institutions who have no choice are force-volunteered. I will keep my ears open at the local military base to see if it is given to kids there.

post #38 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by nia82 View Post

Well my earlier question stands, I would like to know who enrolls their children into this trial. I really, really do. Cause it's pretty insane to me and I wonder who would sign up their children or if as suggested by some posters kids in institutions who have no choice are force-volunteered. I will keep my ears open at the local military base to see if it is given to kids there.



Yes, I think that this is a fair question. If it weren't for all the adjuvants and poor track record with adults I might consider this, although my kids would have to make the choice for themselves. They were talking about a similar subject on NPR today-- and cities and emergency response people are more concerned about biological warfare then a dirty bomb because it is easier to obtain. 

 

In the CBS article above it asserts that people who work in intelligence and know that this is a real threat--and not just political fear mongering-- should sign their kids up. 

 

Because the general population will have to trust the same people who told us that there were WMD in Iraq... which their clearly were not. 

 

I am fairly pro-vax, and *would not* sign my kids up for this.  If they try to take advantage of poor people or military families, I would be MAD! 

post #39 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by kathymuggle View Post

I would really like to know if anyone posting or lurking is pro anthrax vaccines trials on children - and if they would be willing to put their money where their mouth is and sign up their children.

 

 

 



No, of course not. But there's a lot of room between signing your kids up for a vaccine trial and the idea that anthrax doesn't exist and the government is behind some hoax that keeps people believing in it (as said by former 'intel' who doesn't do conspiracy theories).

post #40 of 44
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