California allows college aid to illegal immigrants - Page 2

[Imakcerka]

If I had the time I could list all the "good starts" all the "jumping off points".   It is still divisive!  It's ridiculous to me!  To me, not you to me. 
 

Originally Posted by Super~Single~Mama 

It's not. But it IS a start. A good start. Are we done? Nope. But at least there is a start, a jumping off point.

[guatemama1]

What do you suggest? What would be an alternative idea to the Dream Act? I'm very much interested in immigrant issues, especially related to youth!
 

Originally Posted by Imakcerka 

If I had the time I could list all the "good starts" all the "jumping off points".   It is still divisive!  It's ridiculous to me!  To me, not you to me. 
 

[Imakcerka]

We apparently have a love hate relationship with immigrants.  We've created programs to have them come here and work then depending on our mood we have blamed all that ails us on them.  So many people can't tell the difference between and illegal alien and one who is here legally.  So they put them altogether in one group.  That alone has caused an abundance of fear, fraud and backlash. 

Allow all immigrants access to education.  Young and old.  If you're working here and the company or farm you are working for is honest you should be paying taxes.  If you're paying taxes and are responsible for minors, you should be granted a citizenship.  When they come to get a workers card this should be explained to them.  They can choose to pursue their citizenship as well as work or work and go home when the seasons are over.  While they're working, paying taxes and pursuing their citizenship they should have access to low cost medical and housing.  For one, they're already doing more than a decent amount of citizens. 

If you can prove that you have been here contributing in someway, work/volunteer for X amount of years.  You would be given citizenship. 

As far as the kids go, they need to take all the IF's out of it.  It's not a game, it's life.  Your choices at 18 shouldn't be Military, College... DEPORTATION! 

Am I rambling?  Maybe but I still have a few family members who live in Mexico but stay there because to them the hassle is not worth being treated like trash.

[guatemama1]

I agree with you.

I just edited to erase a buncha of my personal opinions. I guess I don't really feel like putting it all out there right now :) But Imakcerka, I agree with your post which sounds like you are in favor of giving people a path to legalization. The Dream Act may not be your way of doing things, that's cool, but real paths to citizenship we can agree on :)

Edited by guatemama1 - 12/8/11 at 12:24pm

[Super~Single~Mama]

Originally Posted by guatemama1 

It doesn't fix everything, of course, but I believe it addresses a huge problem. In CA the Dream Act is considered a path to citizenship, sort of part of the journey for young folks to become citizens ~ kids who have been here for years and likely whose families pay taxes in some form. Again, I think this affects a very interesting group of young people: those who grew up in the US, are probably pretty darn American-ized, kids who have spent years, maybe even all 12 in the regular school system. I think we need more clear paths to citizenship for folks and this is a good one for some, if they so choose.

From what I understand they are granted conditional permanent residency, which would allow one to work while on the path to citizenship.

Even without the Dream Act there are a lot of immigrants in the military, which I think is a whole other problem in many ways. The first American soldier to die in Iraq was an undocumented Guatemalan immigrant. Quick google search: http://www.fallenheroesmemorial.com/oif/profiles/gutierrezjose.html ~ There was a documentary made about him which was pretty interesting, that undocumented guys like this can sign up for the military and yeah, be on the front lines, but not be able to go to college or whatever else if they so choose. It's complicated. But I think the Dream Act is a step forward.

I'd like to know more about this, because state law cannot create or deal with immigration law - immigration which includes Legal Permanent Residency, Citizenship, Tourist Visa's, Work Authorization, etc, is ALL federal law.  State law cannot contradict it, or create ways around it.

[guatemama1]

That's true. I'm not sure exactly, which is why I wrote "from what I understand" :) Like you said, the CA act can't interfere with immigration status because it is a federal issue. There's an assumption, or maybe stipulation in the act? that the CA Dream Act students are on a pathway to citizenship concurrently. It would be interesting to know if/how status is adjusted at some point to be able to work legally while in school. The federal Dream Act has a part about granting conditional residency. I do my best to understand this stuff but I'm classic mama-brain lately :)

[branditopolis]

Originally Posted by Super~Single~Mama 

I'd like to know more about this, because state law cannot create or deal with immigration law - immigration which includes Legal Permanent Residency, Citizenship, Tourist Visa's, Work Authorization, etc, is ALL federal law.  State law cannot contradict it, or create ways around it.

I think guatemama might have her DREAM acts a little mixed up.  I don't think the California dream act has to do with obtaining citizenship, but the federal dream act (that didn't pass) would grant citizenship to immigrants who attend college. 

[Super~Single~Mama]

Originally Posted by branditopolis 

I think guatemama might have her DREAM acts a little mixed up.  I don't think the California dream act has to do with obtaining citizenship, but the federal dream act (that didn't pass) would grant citizenship to immigrants who attend college. 

Right, but the Fed dream act won't ever pass (although I wish it would, or some version of it).

[meemee]

for short implications i guess its a good thing. 

for long implications its not.

undocumented immigrants have been fighting for rights for a long, long, LONG time. esp. from Mexico.

i see this as the easiest and least expensive route for CA to say - see we did something. we gave $$$ for education. 

the whole politics behind it is really really sad. it is the worst kind of colonialization. what europeans were to the Native Americans, US is to Mexico mainly just coz of the border but to central and south america. what we say is completely the opposite in action.

yeah so i see this as oh give a few scraps to the dogs to shut them up. for the dogs - at least they get a few scraps. 

so this act - the CA one - is a nice shiny cover with nothing of any real importance inside. 

[guatemama1]

Originally Posted by branditopolis 

I think guatemama might have her DREAM acts a little mixed up.  I don't think the California dream act has to do with obtaining citizenship, but the federal dream act (that didn't pass) would grant citizenship to immigrants who attend college. 

It does have a little to do with citizenship. The language I read said that the idea is a path to citizenship. I read it in the LA Times. It's not automatic citizenship, just that part of the requirement is they have to prove they are legalizing their status.

I read that here: http://articles.latimes.com/2011/oct/09/local/la-me-brown-dream-act-20111009
 

[Imakcerka]

I just visited with my grandmother who flew in from Wa.  She is a foster mom who takes in only immigrant kids.  She said that the kids are allowed to stay as long as they are in school, until 21 and then they are deported.  Most of the kids she gets will ask her for money so they can send it home to their parents.  Her newest kid told her that was what was expected.  To be sent here get in the system then send the money home.  With the organization she works for she sees nobody trying to streamline a way for these kids to get citizenship at all.  In fact she had a girl that she got twice, the first time she had been sold by her parents to a family in seattle to work.  The money was never sent home so when she told her parents they told her to run away to the "government" and get into a home.  She did and got my grandmother as her foster mother.  Her parents wanted her returned home and promised never to sell her again.  She went back home to Guatemala and my grandmother got her back a year later when she ran away from the family that bought the second time.   That time my grandmother worked to get her a citizenship but it went nowhere.   My grandmother pushes hard for the kids that want a citizenship and in 20 yrs she's only been able to help 2 kids realize their dream to stay here.  Others already plan on going home.  None of them want to go to school.  They get angry when she sends them or drops them off at school.  They want to get jobs instead so they can send money home. 

I'm telling this story because there are so many different sides of the story.  It's not just the education aspect.  Some of these kids are being used by their parents.  Allowing them to stay til 21 to get their education isn't always what is best for them.  Most of them are not getting their education.  She did have one kid that kept dropping out and actually spread his highschool years out until he was close to 21 and got sent to an adult school to get his GED.  As soon as he was 21 he packed his bags and told her he was ready to go home now.  She has a lot of kids who tell the organization they are orphans but it's less than a week before they ask to use the phone to call their mom.  When they get picked up they can not be placed back in the "illegal" families home they go directly into the system. 

It's a mess!

[Super~Single~Mama]

And then theres people like a guy I went to law school with (he was one class behind me) who truly does want to stay here, and who is very hardworking and considers this country his home. He was featured on the news when the federal dream act was up for a vote, and did a lot of lobbying to get it passed - he has a law degree, and no path to citizenship. Sad.

[branditopolis]

Originally Posted by Super~Single~Mama 

And then theres people like a guy I went to law school with (he was one class behind me) who truly does want to stay here, and who is very hardworking and considers this country his home. He was featured on the news when the federal dream act was up for a vote, and did a lot of lobbying to get it passed - he has a law degree, and no path to citizenship. Sad.

:sigh: such a bummer