Advice needed about extra kid!

[caetlinh]

Hi Mamas, thanks ahead of time for your wisdom...

So, here's my deal.  I took on a second kid in my home two months ago, for income and also for a playmate for my daughter who is 13 months.  However, this kid is 8 months and although she was described by her mother as an "independent player" and a child that could be put down and would play with my daughter, she's anything but.  She literally screams and screams and screams, unless you pick her up, and when you do it's instantaneously over.  At first I thought she just needed to get used to the new place, new smells, etc but after 8 weeks/2 days a week I would think that she would have mellowed out?! Wouldn't you?  So now my daughter, who is SO happy to play on the floor by herself for hrs, literally, is learning to crawl over and pull my pant leg and cry until I pick her up.  Whenever she's around this crying baby she wants to play with her, but then joins in because it seems like the right thing to do...  So anyway, my question is, Do I suck it up and keep going with this because I really need the money, and it's teaching my daughter to share her mommy and the kid will probably grow out of it, OR do I cave and say I can't do it anymore?  Could this have really bad influences on my daughter or is it good for them to be around "all types" of people?  I should also add that I'm 7 wks PG with my second, and I'm just wondering if this will help or hinder in preparing her to be a big sister.  OK, thanks for your help!!!!!

[Tjej]

I don't know that this will do anything either way about a sibling in a long while (it is a really long while for your DD). 

I think you do have to decide if you are going to do it or not, and if you are I think you hold the 8mo all the time so they don't even start tugging and crying, if that makes sense.  Get a good carrier or something.  Sit on the floor with both of them and the baby on one knee and your DD on the other...

You're in the exhausting first trimester and if you are hating this and don't need the money, you could well stop.  I don't personally see playmates being helpful for really small children, so that issue wouldn't factor into my decision.

HTH

Tjej

[ASusan]

Your daughter is 13 months. She is entering the separation anxiety phase (since it appears she wasn't in it earlier) -  so she very likely would have been exhibiting this behavior anyway, even without the 8-month-old in the house.  Your daughter isn't necessarily learning by observation -  there is at least one other possibility.

The 8-month-old could be experiencing either stranger anxiety OR separation anxiety - either one of which would lead to the behaviors you're describing. I concur with Tjej - get a good carrier for the 8-month-old for the times when she needs to be held. Your daughter could use the carrier at other times. (Put her in it every time she asks to be held - she might decide she wants the freedom of being on the floor and becomes satisfied with a big hug instead.)

[flightgoddess]

It probably will help somewhat for the new sibling...she is learing now that you have to divide your time, she doesn't get you every single second. THe dynamic will be different with the new baby, but at least the concept is similar. ANd just because the 8 mo old is independant at home, doesn't mean she will act the same around other kids and in another place.

[ollyoxenfree]

She's been with you twice a week for eight weeks? Separation anxiety may persist for longer than that, particularly since she isn't seeing you every day.

It's also fairly common for separation anxiety to develop at about 8 months age. She may really have been an independent, content baby, just as her mother described her. Unfortunately, she may have been left in your care at exactly the wrong time for you both - right when she's developed separation anxiety and you are in the tiring early stages of pregnancy, making it harder for you to cope. 

[AbbieB]

No 8 month old is independent. She's a baby. She may be content to play on the floor for a few minutes at home, but I would never expect her to play with another child no matter what the situation and it's not developmentally appropriate to expect a 13 month old to be ready for that either. At best the kids will play parallel to each other, interacting a bit.

I think it sounds completely normal for a baby to cry like you described in the situation you described. 2 days a week is not frequent enough for her to acclimate to you and no Mama. She doesn't have that kind of memory and thought process yet.

Your DD is not learning bad habits or behavior from this baby. She sounds like she is reacting to a stressful situation. Crying babies cause stress. So it makes sense that she wants to be held too.

Sharing mama with a friend for a few hours a day, twice a week, is completely different then being a sibling. You just can't prep for that 100%.

I think that you need to be prepared to give this baby what she needs, or stop caring for her. If you want to involve your DD in a social group, join a mom's club, invite a friend with a small child over for a play date, go to the park, go to story time at the library, take a mom and child class, etc...

[zinemama]

Agree that an 8mo is a baby who can not be expected to play independently, much less with a 13mo. I think your expectations were very unrealistic. So now you need to decide if you really want to care for a baby who, like most babies, needs your constant attention.

[ollyoxenfree]

Originally Posted by AbbieB 

No 8 month old is independent. She's a baby. She may be content to play on the floor for a few minutes at home, but I would never expect her to play with another child no matter what the situation and it's not developmentally appropriate to expect a 13 month old to be ready for that either. At best the kids will play parallel to each other, interacting a bit.

I think it sounds completely normal for a baby to cry like you described in the situation you described. 2 days a week is not frequent enough for her to acclimate to you and no Mama. She doesn't have that kind of memory and thought process yet.

Your DD is not learning bad habits or behavior from this baby. She sounds like she is reacting to a stressful situation. Crying babies cause stress. So it makes sense that she wants to be held too.

Sharing mama with a friend for a few hours a day, twice a week, is completely different then being a sibling. You just can't prep for that 100%.

I think that you need to be prepared to give this baby what she needs, or stop caring for her. If you want to involve your DD in a social group, join a mom's club, invite a friend with a small child over for a play date, go to the park, go to story time at the library, take a mom and child class, etc...

I used the word "independent", picking up on the OP's use of it, and it wasn't a good choice. I agree that no 8 month old is independent, but I what I really meant is a content child who isn't crying unless they are being held constantly. I think it is possible that this baby wasn't always crying when she was out of someone's arms and that the mother wasn't lying or misleading about that. It is quite typical for separation anxiety to develop at 8 months. I also agree that I wouldn't expect a 13 month old and an 8 month old to play together like older pre-schoolers.

OP, if you are finding that taking care of another infant isn't working out but you'd like to continue with childcare, perhaps an older child (pre-schooler or before/after school care) would be a better fit.  

[AbbieB]

Originally Posted by ollyoxenfree 

I used the word "independent", picking up on the OP's use of it, and it wasn't a good choice. I agree that no 8 month old is independent, but I what I really meant is a content child who isn't crying unless they are being held constantly. I think it is possible that this baby wasn't always crying when she was out of someone's arms and that the mother wasn't lying or misleading about that. It is quite typical for separation anxiety to develop at 8 months. I also agree that I wouldn't expect a 13 month old and an 8 month old to play together like older pre-schoolers.

OP, if you are finding that taking care of another infant isn't working out but you'd like to continue with childcare, perhaps an older child (pre-schooler or before/after school care) would be a better fit.  

I wasn't picking on your post. I was directing my comments at the OP.

[ollyoxenfree]

Originally Posted by AbbieB 

I wasn't picking on your post. I was directing my comments at the OP.

I didn't think you were, it's all good  . After reading your post, I realized that my word choice could have been better so I wanted to clarify. Since I also agreed pretty much with what you had to say about infant/toddler development, play and socialization, and reasonable expectations, I quoted you. I suppose I should have stuck in a "Yeah that" icon below the quote. 

[nextcommercial]

8 Months is a rough age.  She's probably dealing with separation anxiety.  Only two days a week is hard on her.  If she were there a full week, she'd be able to adjust.  She WILL adjust, it will just take longer than if she were full time.

If you can hang in there, in another four or five months, they WILL be playing together.  Child development specialists will claim that young toddlers don't play together, it's just parallel play, but that's not really true.  By at least 15 months, they play very much together.  

By the time your baby is born, they will be bestest friends, and those will probably be your easy days because they will amuse each other.

[caetlinh]

Thanks everyone for your responses.  To be honest, I never really expected an 8 month old to "play" with DD, but I didn't realize that separation anxiety could be so bad.  I've done childcare for over 10 yrs and have never had a baby that has such a need to be held.  But it sounds like you're all saying this doesn't come as a surprise to you.  Although it's hard, I'm going to stick it out.  I realize that I've been spoiled with DD who has never gone through this phase, and hopefully by the time #2 arrives, they'll both be toddlers that are content to entertain each other a little better. thanks again

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Originally Posted by caetlinh 

Thanks everyone for your responses.  To be honest, I never really expected an 8 month old to "play" with DD, but I didn't realize that separation anxiety could be so bad.  I've done childcare for over 10 yrs and have never had a baby that has such a need to be held.  But it sounds like you're all saying this doesn't come as a surprise to you.  Although it's hard, I'm going to stick it out.  I realize that I've been spoiled with DD who has never gone through this phase, and hopefully by the time #2 arrives, they'll both be toddlers that are content to entertain each other a little better. thanks again

I discovered baby carriers here on MDC about six years ago.  It's made an enormous difference in my job as a daycare provider.  I can still do all the things I need to do, while holding the baby.  My back sometimes gets tired, and I don't carry a baby for hours and hours....but, I feel like if I'm carrying for an hour-ish, I can put them down, and they will be fine...and they always are!  I have only had one crier, and it lasted for two exhausting weeks, then she was fine!  Now she's the ring leader and a happy, self sufficient one year old.

My favorite is a very old BabyHawk Mei tai that I bought off of a for sale or trade board.

[caetlinh]

yeah, you're exactly right.  I've been using the ergo -as long as I'm moving she's happy.  Yesterday I held her for the first half hour, then sat on the floor with her in my lap, then slowly put her on the floor in between my legs, THEN slowly moved backwards some.  All of this over the course of an hr finally got her happily crawling around with DD, as long as I wasn't out of site.  She came back about every 5 min to check in and then was happy to move again.  This made me feel like we're making progress. thanks!

[artekah]

Yep, I agree with everyone else--the Ergo is amazing, especially if you can master the back carry! I don't know what I would do without babywearing.