Venting about school

[jaylivg]

The school isn't providing what my son's need to suit his ability and his skill . This is almost the end of the first quarter , and my son always gets home with note from his teacher that he's talking during carpet time , and that he would blurt out answers out of turn . Those are the most troubles he get from school . His grades are A's and A+'s , the teacher recognizes his ability , that he is advanced compared to other kids in his classrooms , he reads chapter books ( he's reading harry potter , and he's only 1st grade , what does that tell you ? )  , then he does math stories , he knows multiplications , started learning fractions , he knows to do 3 digits addition and subtraction with carrying / regrouping , knows to tell time , etc etc ..

All these time i sent him to this private school , and when i picked him up from school , he gets a note for me , later on also i get an email from his teacher , my son did this my son did that , he's disruptive . When i pick him up from school , i asked him " did you learn anything today ? "

His answer " no "

I said " nooo ? why not ? " 

He said " well i already knew it .. i am learning the same thing it's nothing new at school .. "

Isn't the teacher supposed to do something ? If she sees this child is more advanced than other children in the class , he gets good grades , gets his job done , except that he gets in trouble , doesn't that show her that this child might bored ? learning the same old thing ?

I've requested a conference , they said that they would give him a different curriculum , that hasn't happened , she said that she would brainstorm and will give my son different or more challenging home works , that hasn't happened either .. then the school said after our 2nd conference , said that he will be sent to 2nd grader reading class starts november 1st ! The reason they said november 1st , because the 2nd grader class will be moved right next to his class starting nov 1st . Am i wasting time or what here ?

I am paying them a lot of money , and i need them to provide him with his education needs !! Now i am starting to feel like i am wasting time , ( from august til october ) and wasting money , , for my son NOT to learn anything . Why should i spend so much money for him not to learn anything at school ? While i am still working with him on more challenging / advanced stuff with him at home after school ??

We basically homeschool him informally then since he doesn't learn anything new at school , but at home he learns a whole bunch new stuff !!! Reason i am doing this because i need to keep his mind challenged , so that when he gets harder stuff later on he would not complaining saying this is too hard and give up easily .  Urgh i am so mad at the school .. we're going for another conference tomorrow in the afternoon !!

Oh and another thing , we asked for the copy for the score of his tests ( from reading and math that was given to him by a differentiate learning teacher back in early september )  , they said they would send it home with our son today , but nothing in his book bag either !! Isn't it our right to ask for the test score ?? it's like they're trying to holding for something !!

[Virginia Mom]

Wow, so a few things to think about.........is this a new teacher? You could expect this from an overcrowded public school (I used to teach middle school) but not from an expensive private facility. Does she even know how to address the student who is above the norm? (She may not have a clue)......In some states (I didn't even look to see where you live) a gifted student who is able to 'get' an IEP will also have benefits........usually an IEP is for children with learning issues---but a child who is far advance still has 'issues'....they need special challenges....Does this make sense (my brain went to sleep already). Your son can still work on the same reading material, but do different activites---bc the goal is to still keep him with is peers,but doing work that will make his brain grow! Be specfic with the teacher and principal.......ask for specfic ideas --or even do a team meeting with both teachers to come up with ideas for lesson adjustments.........good luck mommie.

[joensally]

Advocating is tiring and uncomfortable, as well as frustrating.  It sounds like you need to push again.  Sometimes the squeeky wheel gets the grease.

[Tjej]

I agree a lot of changes need to take place in the learning environment. 

Here's my silver lining for you - instead of considering this all wasted time, can you focus your son on learning how to behave properly in a classroom environment instead of learning academics?  It sounds like he could take his energy and focus on that and benefit while he is spinning his wheels waiting for some academic work.  For instance, have him be a social detective (there is actually a neat book on that if you google or amazon it).  Have him study carpet time for a couple of days.  Have him search for clues about how kids do things there and what the teacher seems to expect and like.  That sort of thing.

HTH

Tjej

[joensally]

Originally Posted by Tjej 

I agree a lot of changes need to take place in the learning environment. 

Here's my silver lining for you - instead of considering this all wasted time, can you focus your son on learning how to behave properly in a classroom environment instead of learning academics?  It sounds like he could take his energy and focus on that and benefit while he is spinning his wheels waiting for some academic work.  For instance, have him be a social detective (there is actually a neat book on that if you google or amazon it).  Have him study carpet time for a couple of days.  Have him search for clues about how kids do things there and what the teacher seems to expect and like.  That sort of thing.

HTH

Tjej

This is a lovely suggestion!

My son has become a very astute observer of others, and I think he's gained these skills during intellectual down time at school.  He's very clear on what motivates others and interpersonal dynamics.  (As an observer, once he's participating he's less astute )

You could practice observing others the next time you're waiting in line somewhere together, and chat about that to coach him on it.  Then ask him to come home with observations about two kids in the class, or 5 rules that the class works under and how well the kids are doing with following those rules, etc etc. 

This could help him while you're working with the school to change things up.

[jaylivg]

Thanks for the great idea !!! I will def. try this !! thanks again

[Doodlebugsmom]

Originally Posted by jaylivg 

The school isn't providing what my son's need to suit his ability and his skill . This is almost the end of the first quarter , and my son always gets home with note from his teacher that he's talking during carpet time , and that he would blurt out answers out of turn .

Ummmm...This jumps out at me like you would not believe. Has the teacher had ANY classroom experience. I've never been in a first (or second!) grade class where students didn't blurt out answers out of turn. I think that is absolutely normal and does not indicate a behavior issue to me. Actually, talking during carpet time is totally normal too in my experience. Jeesh!

Anyway, my son's 2nd grade teacher mentioned testing him for the gifted program (dd is in 4th grade and has been in it since 2nd). It's a fantastic program, but we don't feel he's ready quite yet. He's the youngest in his class (June b-day. Lots of parents hold out for another year.) She said that around mid-year, when she's had ample time to assess every student's abilities, she begins to differentiate instruction for students who are advanced in any area, whether they've been formally tested or not. I think many teachers feel like they need to give it some time before they really begin to do this. It simply may be too early in the school-year. That's just my opinion.

[ollyoxenfree]

Just keep in mind that it's a marathon, not a sprint. Managing the school relationship is an ongoing process, and unfortunately it sometimes takes sustained effort to get results. I know it's frustrating for you (and your ds) that school isn't improving. 

Since you know that he will start with a new class for reading on Nov. 1st, perhaps you could speak with that teacher. Even if he isn't yet attending the class, if they are doing a novel study he could start reading it or get some of their classwork to do in order to prepare for the move. 

I recall you were going to speak with his kindergarten teacher about what was working well last year. How did that go? 

[jaylivg]

Originally Posted by ollyoxenfree 

Just keep in mind that it's a marathon, not a sprint. Managing the school relationship is an ongoing process, and unfortunately it sometimes takes sustained effort to get results. I know it's frustrating for you (and your ds) that school isn't improving. 

Since you know that he will start with a new class for reading on Nov. 1st, perhaps you could speak with that teacher. Even if he isn't yet attending the class, if they are doing a novel study he could start reading it or get some of their classwork to do in order to prepare for the move. 

I recall you were going to speak with his kindergarten teacher about what was working well last year. How did that go? 

Yes , i did ask the kindergarten teacher , she said because during kindergarten the children were encouraged to socialize more , that's why he did well , he wasn't perfect , but he was better during kindergarten . And they sat close to each other , and so my son wouldn't have to be too loud when he's talking to another student on the same table . Basically because they do a lot of socializing , and activities , he benefited a lot from that during kindergarten , which basically to keep his mind busy doing something , right ?

Today we had another conference with the principal , and she agreed to let my son to observe the 2nd grade reading class this coming week , and then the next week , if everything goes well , he can start joining the 2nd grader for the reading class .

And also today we just got an email from his teacher , his teacher said that our son was very disruptive so that he had to be moved to other classroom . And then she also said that our son will not be taken out for pull out program , because he did not pass the math Unit 3 test last week . I remember my son told me he had a unit 3 math test and during which he took a while to solve the answer , and his teacher said that he can SKIP the question , WITHOUT telling him HE NEEDS TO GO BACK TO SOLVE IT as soon as he's done with the rest . ( he's a 1st grader , i know this is common sense , but that's just the way he is ) , so he left 3 questions blank , and he didn't know if leaving questions blank would be considered wrong . He told me this when he got home and i said it is wrong if you left this blank . He said " i didn't know "

Now , the teacher told me that he's not going to be able to join the pull out math program , and yet , we already showed the books he's working from home , the math book , even today i showed the principal the daily word math book 3rd grade , that he is able to solve the problems , and yet he can't join the pull out program because his teacher said " you can skip the questions " and not passing the test .

And yet she's complaining how disruptive my son was , she hasn't done anything to help with his behaviour except she's been changing the ways he gets his warning , his punishments , but not the problem itself , she said she's going to give a different assignments , it hasn't happened , going to give him more homeworks , it hasn't happened . I am so annoyed with this teacher and i thought she was a good teacher that i thought she would really help my son , but i don't see it at all now !!

[serenbat]

regarding the math test- the ones that he did do, where they correct?

[jaylivg]

serenbat , she didn't even tell me the result , just said " he did not pass " and that she didn't even tell us  that he was going to take unit 3 math test . what makes me angry is that she told him to skip the hard ones , but she should have continued saying .. but u have to go back to it once you're done with the rest , don't leave it blank . Being a 1st grader that he is , of course he did what his teacher said left it blank , and skipped it , and of course that's wrong !

[LynnS6]

OK, momma, take a deep deep breath. Let it out slowly. Now do that 10 times.

I understand that you're upset. I suspect you're probably just venting here. But if even 1/10th of the hostility you're feeling toward the school comes out in your interactions with the teacher, she's going to feel attacked and not be very helpful. I know you're paying a lot, but if you go in with both barrels firing, you're going to meet a wall of resistance. You need to build a relationship with this school if you're going to be able to work with them long term. As ollyoxenfree said, it's a marathon, and right now, you're sprinting.

Before leaping to the "You're not doing right by my son!" you might want to try the "How can we work together to meet his needs?" approach. You know your son better than the teacher does. You can say to her "What can we do to get his needs met for math? At home, he's doing x, y, & z (and show her)." For the carpet time, I would again enlist her help, "It sounds like he's having trouble with some of the expectations for behavior. What can we do at home that might be able to help him?"

You've already gotten accommodation for reading. That's good. I would set up a conference for her about the math, ask to see the test and see where he had trouble. If the only thing that kept him from passing was the 3 problems he skipped, explain to her how he misinterpreted the questions, and ask for a chance for him to "do-over" with that. Or, suggest that he do pull-out for the math group and see how it goes for 2 weeks, and if the pull-out teacher feels he's not ready, then you're OK with him going back to the regular class.

Finally, is this really the best school for your child? Some private schools do excellently with kids who are not typical. Others really are catering to the middle-upper middle range and they don't have the resources to help either kids who are really ahead or who are behind. Sometimes public schools do a better job because they have to deal with a range. Sometimes public schools don't do well with the upper range either. If that's the case, you either need to look for a private school who works with high level kids or think about homeschooling. But I'm not convinced (yet) that this school can't accommodate him. Right now, I think they're worried that his behavior will keep him from working effectively with older kids.

[jaylivg]

Originally Posted by LynnS6 

OK, momma, take a deep deep breath. Let it out slowly. Now do that 10 times.

I understand that you're upset. I suspect you're probably just venting here. But if even 1/10th of the hostility you're feeling toward the school comes out in your interactions with the teacher, she's going to feel attacked and not be very helpful. I know you're paying a lot, but if you go in with both barrels firing, you're going to meet a wall of resistance. You need to build a relationship with this school if you're going to be able to work with them long term. As ollyoxenfree said, it's a marathon, and right now, you're sprinting.

Before leaping to the "You're not doing right by my son!" you might want to try the "How can we work together to meet his needs?" approach. You know your son better than the teacher does. You can say to her "What can we do to get his needs met for math? At home, he's doing x, y, & z (and show her)." For the carpet time, I would again enlist her help, "It sounds like he's having trouble with some of the expectations for behavior. What can we do at home that might be able to help him?"

You've already gotten accommodation for reading. That's good. I would set up a conference for her about the math, ask to see the test and see where he had trouble. If the only thing that kept him from passing was the 3 problems he skipped, explain to her how he misinterpreted the questions, and ask for a chance for him to "do-over" with that. Or, suggest that he do pull-out for the math group and see how it goes for 2 weeks, and if the pull-out teacher feels he's not ready, then you're OK with him going back to the regular class.

Finally, is this really the best school for your child? Some private schools do excellently with kids who are not typical. Others really are catering to the middle-upper middle range and they don't have the resources to help either kids who are really ahead or who are behind. Sometimes public schools do a better job because they have to deal with a range. Sometimes public schools don't do well with the upper range either. If that's the case, you either need to look for a private school who works with high level kids or think about homeschooling. But I'm not convinced (yet) that this school can't accommodate him. Right now, I think they're worried that his behavior will keep him from working effectively with older kids.

No , i didn't say all these things in front of her ,although this is the way i feel lately . During the first couple of months i thought she was great teacher and that i believed she would provide the educations that my son needs , she said it herself she would brainstorm to get my son's more challenging assignments , homeworks etc .. but that hasn't even happened .

And yes we keep our communication with her almost everyday through emails and about a week ago we had a conference with her also . We did ask her what can we do to find his needs for math , were there any books she suggested ? Yes .. i am willing to buy those books , and i bought them . I meant .. if she really wants me to buy it , just tell me , i really don't mind . But what i do mind is that she's not trying to solve the problem , they haven't tried with anything except for the pull out program which now he couldn't go because she said he didn't pass .

She didn't tell me what was the score , she didn't tell me what kind of questions he had trouble with , until today bam .. email came and she just said my son is not going to pull out program anymore because he didn't pass . That's it . I know she's frustrating with my son too , but she needs to do something about it , try anything , give him more assignments , instead of stopping him when he wants to move forward and working on more pages .

I really don't talk like that to the teacher or the principal , i just had to vent it out , believe me . I know if i said things like i said over here on the board , it's not going to hurt anybody BUT my son , so i realize that we need to communicate right with them .

[serenbat]

Before leaping to the "You're not doing right by my son!" you might want to try the "How can we work together to meet his needs?"

that's all well and good but I get the impression that this is really the school dropping the ball or really not even starting to play ball here

so there was a meeting today and the teacher was not even at it?  if she was, why wasn't this even brought up - why an email later?

what were his "test" results- did you ever get them?

also I do not feel you are in anyway out of line and I would demand an accounting here - put it in writing - you want the test results that they did prior and I would ask to see this math test - you are will within your right to have that and I would be very upset that this was not addressed today-an email??? really-why?

I would address this practice to the principle not the teacher

do you have a time frame set up? when is the next meeting? how long are they going to give him to adjust to the new reading program? was there anything positive said about your son in this meeting?

was it discussed moving him to another class/teacher? 

[jaylivg]

Originally Posted by serenbat 

that's all well and good but I get the impression that this is really the school dropping the ball or really not even starting to play ball here

so there was a meeting today and the teacher was not even at it?  if she was, why wasn't this even brought up - why an email later?

what were his "test" results- did you ever get them?

also I do not feel you are in anyway out of line and I would demand an accounting here - put it in writing - you want the test results that they did prior and I would ask to see this math test - you are will within your right to have that and I would be very upset that this was not addressed today-an email??? really-why?

I would address this practice to the principle not the teacher

do you have a time frame set up? when is the next meeting? how long are they going to give him to adjust to the new reading program? was there anything positive said about your son in this meeting?

was it discussed moving him to another class/teacher? 

She wasn't in the meeting today , but we had the conference with the principal . We're just tired that he comes home everyday with red , meaning he lost recess he had 3 warnings . And all the same , during carpet time he would talk and he couldn't keep his hands to himself , and blurts out answer . The same in the past week or so .

The test result was given to me today , ones he was tested back in September , he was given Basic Reading Inventory test . It said " tested at 5th grade independent instructional level for vocabulary and tested at the 4th grade instructional level for reading comprehension , he is also a fluent reader for his age "

While for math , he was tested on 1st grade math on unit 2 before being eligible for a pull out program ( the past pull out program ) .

After today's meeting , next meeting would be the end of the next week , since he will be started to observing the 2nd grade reading class , and the principal said if it goes well then they would set up a desk especially for him in the 2nd grade class . She would not let our son to skip to 2nd grade altogether , but she wants to see if reading class with 2nd grade goes well then they might add the math for 2nd grade .

But then again .. i don't know how this going to work , because he didn't even pass the unit 3 math test for 1st grade , due to " just skip it " according to the teacher . This is not the differentiate learning teacher who said it , but his regular teacher , she was the one who supervising him and some other kids during this test .

There wasn't anything positive said earlier during the meeting , well except the principal also heard from other teacher that he is a very bright kid , but it's just hard to have him focus .

I guess i am just so frustrated with all these things . And my post showed it that i needed to vent , i didn't say stuff like these to the teacher nor the principal . I know we have to keep the dialogue going without getting mad about it .

But my husband was furious after reading the email from the teacher this afternoon after we got home from picking him up from school .

[serenbat]

I would simply request this math test and make the principle aware that you do not appreciate this type of blatant rudeness via an email communication from the teacher when you were there for a meeting- plain and simple that was uncalled for- why was this not addressed in the meeting- you should have been shown the test not an email after the meeting-uncalled -IMO

I take it the school is taking a "wait and see approach" here? really does not come across as positive for you son - seems like he is marked as "problem - behavior" and that is sad when it is done

did you get to meet with the 2nd grade teacher? if so how did her attitude seem?

this just seem very sad overall that despite this so-kind-of move thing the behavior seems to be more forefront to his current teacher and having a larger effect overall

[jaylivg]

Originally Posted by serenbat 

I would simply request this math test and make the principle aware that you do not appreciate this type of blatant rudeness via an email communication from the teacher when you were there for a meeting- plain and simple that was uncalled for- why was this not addressed in the meeting- you should have been shown the test not an email after the meeting-uncalled -IMO

I take it the school is taking a "wait and see approach" here? really does not come across as positive for you son - seems like he is marked as "problem - behavior" and that is sad when it is done

did you get to meet with the 2nd grade teacher? if so how did her attitude seem?

this just seem very sad overall that despite this so-kind-of move thing the behavior seems to be more forefront to his current teacher and having a larger effect overall

I agree , i was so shocked , i reading that email i was so speechless , i just had to show it to my husband , he was mad .

And yes , from the sounds of it , the school is doing wait and see , and yeap you're right , although he has great grades , but they're looking at him and his behaviour .

I didn't get to meet with the 2nd grade teacher , the principal said she was going to talk with her first , and this coming monday my son can observe the class and if his behaviour is okay , then he can join in the class the coming week .

LIke i said we're all very frustrated about this , i am sad about it , my husband isn't too happy about it either , and the most important thing , my son seems sad everytime he gets out from school , why ? because he had lost recess and got red .

Just tonight too , he said sometimes he doesn't like his teacher , because she gives them confusing instruction , i asked how so ? He said , she made me get bad grades , and didn't pass the test because she told me to skip the questions that's too hard , and i did skipped it , she didn't tell me i have to go back and answer them .

Then he also said earlier today , he was told if he and this particular student tell on each other , for example if that other student say something about my son doing this doing that , they both will have to get red ( bee moving up to red = losing recess = 3 strikes ) , and she told my son too , if my son tells about this other student doing this or that , both of them would have to move their bee too and getting red . He said she's confusing , " so when this other student hurts me , if i tell her , i have to move my bee ?? that's strange .. "

And we kept telling our son if any other student bothers him / hurts him , he should tell the teacher , now that the teacher said that kind of thing , he doesn't know what to do , he even said " it hurts getting pinched by my friend , but it hurts even more when i have to move my bee to red "
 

[joensally]

I have to say that reading all of this, I think that you should have him tested if you can afford it, particularly if you're going to stick with this school.  Look at the local school district and see if they have any programming, maybe not at your local school but somewhere.  I'd look at all options within a reasonable travel distance.

My read of this is that the school doesn't get it.  They may never get it.  Gifted kids often have uneven performance.  To have pullouts be contingent on performance on a unit is ludicrous.  And I have highly verbally capable kids and a one grade boost in reading wouldn't have made a difference for either of them.  In grade 2, they're still working on learning to read-type activities for most of the kids - your son's ready for the reading to learn phase based on those test results. 

With the tattling, the teacher is probably trying to behaviour-mod them out of telling on each other.  It sounds like that's the only tool in her toolbox -- blunt behaviour mod.  Repeatedly missing recess means the strategy is NOT WORKING, and she needs to come up with something else.

[jaylivg]

Joeandsally ,

Do i need to take him to a children's psychology to have him tested ? are you talking about IQ test ?

[Imakcerka]

Most schools should have a GT program.  Gifted and Talented.  That might be their "pull out"  anyway request that he's tested.  If they don't do it you can petition the school board or as a public school to have him tested they may be willing.  Good luck

Originally Posted by jaylivg 

Joeandsally ,

Do i need to take him to a children's psychology to have him tested ? are you talking about IQ test ?