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Whats the Story with Alternative Birth Choices and Evelyn? - Page 2  

post #21 of 70

Honestly, I think that it is other midwives who are doing this to the profession. Here is why. You have great midwives, responsible ones.   You don't change the hearts and minds of lawmakers, of other medical professionals or lay people by telling clients that it's ok to do things that aren't legal "for the cause" or by skirting the laws or by outright breaking them... no, that makes more people look untrustworthy and it puts  a target on the backs of the good midwives. It is probably more important now, than ever, to follow the rules, even if they're not something you agree with, because you can build relationships and open doors for more freedom for women. More midwives won't want to be homebirth midwives because they don't want to be a target when someone else does something wrong. It's a catch 22. We can't get more midwives because some of the bad ones but because of the bad ones we need more midwives. How do we fix this? I have no idea, but I feel like we are going to have a hostile environment for CNMs for a while here. It's unfortunate that a community must "pay" for the bad things or even the accidents that have happened. That's something to think about when you're a midwife. Think about how important your role is and how important what you are doing is. Don't take it for granted. Really, the anti-homebirth people in Maryland don't need more ammunition. 


My former midwife? She dropped me. She abandoned me as a patient. She chose to do things that weren't legal. She didn't care about me or my baby and she was supposed to be "legal" in my state. She made it almost so that I would have to UC or just go to the ER when I go into labor. It was honestly very close to that. I think that she figured I was so far along I'd just be nice and not make a fuss. She took my money, and she waited until I paid her assistant and THEN she dropped me. I wasn't able to find anything bad about her when I did my searching but I've heard bad things since. People need to file complaints when it is necessary, to protect other women, not to harm them. If that means that she loses her license and her clients can't use her, well I'm ok with that. One has already harassed me about it though. 


This whole experience has made myself and my husband not want any more children, we have both said that this week, - is that something we should be thinking about just before the birth of our baby? It's not because midwifery is under attack, but because there were laws put into place to protect us but we were hurt anyway. There are ethical codes that people should have been decent enough to stick to. There is the golden rule, if nothing else, to think about there. Last I heard from her, she said "talk to my lawyer" and hung up. She doesn't have a lawyer, she just wanted me to go away but I am not as stupid as I apparently look. 


 I'll also say that the "well nothing bad happened to me" and/or "I was ok!" is an invalid argument. We hear it from people who smoke during pregnancy "I did it and my baby is FINE!" or from people who don't use carseats  "when I was a kid, I bounced around the back seat, kids these days don't need car seats!!" - but if you were hurt  or klled you wouldn't be saying that. The dead can't speak for themselves. Maybe you'd be a small person trying to stand up and say "something bad happened to me!" while people shout over you and tell you that you're bad and wrong for saying anything and that you're hurting the cause. I am sure there are more problems than I have heard of with my midwife, but people don't or can't speak up. 



FTR, a licensed massage therapist can't give a massage if his or her license is not valid. Why should a midwife be able to attend a birth if his or her license is not valid? A baby is much more important than a tight muscle. 



I have no idea what is going on with Evelyn, I don't know if she did something wrong or not. But I read here that her patients don't know if they'll have a back up or appointments and that is scary.

post #22 of 70
Thread Starter 

you make excellent points.  youre totally right.  its such a sad situation we maryland homebirthers find ourselves in :( 

post #23 of 70

I am not going to go into a lot of detail, but this is why rumor can be a poor source.  She is not going to court or being sued.  She has an administative hearing with the Board of Nursing on the 25th.  Anyone who is a client can call me on my cell phone or call Evelyn at any time to talk, if you have not yet received a call.  All our numbers are on the business card you received when you came into care.  We had hoped people would respect that it takes time to talk to all your clients in such a busy practice and not start posting what they heard on listservs, but obviously that was a vain hope.  I will be happy to help people understand what is happening, but I am not going to do so in this type of forum.  I hope you can all understand we want the information to come from US so it is correct.  Thanks.


Lorrie Leigh

post #24 of 70

This speculation is neither fair nor accurate.  If you don't think that home birth is under assault than you haven't been paying attention.   She is not the only one who has experienced scrutiny and investigation this year.  Desire for home birth is growing in this area and every provider is stretched to the max, but interestingly we aren't growing our supply of licensed home birth providers.  Why?  Because this state makes it so incredibly difficult to provide this option that it isn't that appealing to young CNMs I guess.  (I am in school and on that path but am years away from being able to take over for our senior sister midwives) And CPMs have been thus far unsuccessful in gaining any traction with licensure as 27 other states have.   ABC is notifying people as fast as we can and providing referrals to those who need them.  What people do beyond that or how they report it to you when they call you is not anything we can control.  I would think that if you want to be supportive of a sister midwife, you would not want to contribute to the speculation and innuendo.  I am really so disappointed to see this.  If you have a question or concern about the calls you are receiving, you can pick up the phone and call her any time.  Other CNMs in the area have.

post #25 of 70
Originally Posted by BenimBebek View Post

 People grieving often need someone to blame.  I don't know if something like this happened, but certainly things like this happen all over the homebirth unfriendly country.


This whole reminds me of... did anyone read Baby Catcher?


I will just say that our mamas are the best and are VERY supportive of ABC!  All of them.

post #26 of 70
Thread Starter 

SO glad you posted Lorrie!  I know many of us who aren't current clients were really worried and wondering what was going on.  Which is why we all came here!  Glad to know that shes not being sued.  Please tell us how we can help!  There are so many past clients and potential future client who PM'd me wondering how to help!!

post #27 of 70
THANKYOU for posting Lorrie Leigh! Please let us know if and when they is anyway we can help and support Evelyn. She attended both of my home births and I'm a current client due early next year. I support her and her staff - they are a massive asset to our birthing community, and my husband and I are prayerfully waiting to hear any more updates.

Again please let us know if and when there is any way we can help! I'm sure there are many parents who feel the same way we do.
post #28 of 70

I don't know what the problem really is over there (seems to be a LOT of them) but I'm most definitely leaving her practice and filing a lengthy complaint. I've been hung up on by her office staff, outright lied to multiple times, had messages for Evelyn "lost" and now can't seem to get a human being to pick up the phone or return my calls. I don't care what's going on, that is completely unacceptable in any medical office no matter the circumstances. And no, it is not acceptable to expect me to call every cell phone either after I've already spoken to more than one staff person, had them promise me a call back by a certain date and gotten no such calls, no explanations, no nothing. It is especially unacceptable as patients to have to find out why we're not getting these promised phone calls off of an internet forum! I do truly feel for Evelyn's patients who are at or near term and am so glad that I'm early enough in my pregnancy to transfer care easily. I've been hoping my experience has been isolated, and am extremely disappointed and saddened that it's not.


When I initiated care with her practice, I didn't want to lend much credence to some of the "rumors" that we've all heard and now I'm kind of kicking myself. If this is really just a minor little hiccup and no big deal, it quite frankly terrifies me of the possibility of another little hiccup (or worse, a big hiccup) happening around my due date, given the way that her practice has responded this time. I completely understand that later term pregnancies are going to take rescheduling priority over mine, but after 2 weeks I would have at least expected some kind of explanation.


It's truly a shame.

post #29 of 70

Does ANYBODY read the "Healthcare Provider Review Policy" ?


We all have a right to our oppinions but this site has specilly stated it is NOT the place to post negative reviews personal in nature.


It's to protect ALL parties.  Mothering.com,  it's posters, and healthcare providers who can't monitor forums to defend themselves or their practices.  PLEASE be civil and don't ruin MDC for the rest of us.



"Positive healthcare provider reviews are welcome. Please use careful language when responding to or soliciting a review. We do not wish to host negative remarks or comments about practitioners, practices, hospitals or healthcare centers that might cast them in a negative light and which would present liability concerns for you and for Mothering. Negative comments that are verifiable facts of public record or court ruling are acceptable. Please avoid speculation and/or gossip. Please contact the provider or care center directly with any concerns or questions.

Statements such as: Hospital A has a 30% cesarean rate or Dr. B is not licensed to perform surgery both contain publicly accessible and verifiable information. A statement such as: I would never go to Dr. C because she is unkind and hostile to VBACs is personal opinion and possibly defamatory.

As an alternative to posting a negative review, members are welcome to use the Private Message (PM) system to convey information that might not be appropriate for the public boards. Posts or threads that cast healthcare providers, practices or centers in a negative light are not appropriate and will be removed.

Please be cautious in posting information of a personal nature or anything that might create legal concerns for you or others. If at any time you have questions or concerns about the appropriateness of a post, please PM a Moderator or an Administrator. Thank you."

post #30 of 70
Originally Posted by Healthy_Baby View Post

Does ANYBODY read the "Healthcare Provider Review Policy" ?


I actually did just yesterday...it seems like MDC may have two different policies posted in different places because the link provided my CM reads as if negative reviews are ok: 


"Guidelines for Practitioners and Services Reviews 

This review section has been set up as a way for you to carefully and knowledgeably research others’ interactions with practitioners and services in order to help you make informed decisions. 

Please peruse the reviews to see if the practitioner, service, or resource you desire to review has been reviewed before. If so please post to that to add your review. If a previous review does not exist you may begin a new review. Please use the full name and title of the practitioner or the complete name of the center or service as the title of the review to make searching simpler for members. 

We allow for both positive and negative reviews. Negative reviews must not be written ‘off the cuff’ with spiteful intent, but with the intention of alerting other members to negative experiences. All responses need be constructive and tactful in nature on all accounts. Please avoid making statements that could be defamatory. That said, reviews are not a place to work through negative feelings toward a practitioner or service provider."  




Where did you read the policy you quoted?  


Still, it seems they would like reviews posted in that above forum.  I think negatives (even ones that are deemed acceptable) will only be allowed in the reviews, and will be removed in the general forum (possibly with a tread pull).  



post #31 of 70



It took me a moment to catch it but I see the difference now - the link I posted is specifically for Healthcare Providers.

the one you mentioned is the MDC "review policy" referring more towards product and companies.  


The "Healthcare Provider Review Policy, is found on the Maryland/Metro D.C are page > http://www.mothering.com/community/f/81/maryland-metro-d-c-area-delaware right in the sandy colored box where it lists the moderator. 




Oops! forgive me - I was wrong - the link you gave DOES talk specifically about health care providers.  I'm not sure which is best to use but I would assume there is a separate one for this tribe for a reason and so i'll be sticking with that one, unless I hear otherwise.  :) 

post #32 of 70

Yea, I don't know either.  I know the new review section has a place to review midwives and it is that section that hosts both positive and negative reviews.  CM (Cynthia Moshure - sp?) referred another poster to that section when a thread was removed earlier this week from this very forum.  But, I'm not sure which is correct.  I was just commenting because I happen to have just read it.  Out of curiosity I will ask...


ETA: There is little question on whether negative reviews are hosted in the general forum - either on the Pregnancy and Beyond, Tribal and etc. - that I believe is not allowed and have seen threads pulled for that.  What I was questioning is whether MDC hosts negative reviews of practioners in the review section, which I think they may.  I posted a question and will link it here when the thread is active.  

post #33 of 70

I suppose it's possible they've set up the new "review" section to give people who've had negative experiences with Healthcare Providers an outlet to make their experiences known. while still preserving the guidelines of the tribal forums.  I'm very interested to hear what you find. :)

post #34 of 70

All I know is that I lived in silence for 2 1/2 years and was blasted on the internet for telling my story. What happened to me was traumatizing and it was equally traumatizing that people could be so mean.

I leave it now in the hands of the MBON, for them to decide.

I am sorry that some full term women are left in the dark, some at the fault of a provider that wasn't up to date on her license and dropped them.

None of this is my fault.

As a mother of three, I want to remind people that a healthy baby and mother is the desired outcome of a birth. Women should have a choice, but also feel comfortable that they will be safe if problems arise.


I only told my story to make alternative birth choices safer, not to be a bad person.


That is all I have to say.

post #35 of 70
Originally Posted by isismamakat View Post

I only told my story to make alternative birth choices safer, not to be a bad person.

Isismamakat, I had been following your story - as an interested party in the culture of homebirth in MD.  FYI, this thread is about a midwifery practice in MD called "Alternative Birth Choices" / not about alternative birth choices (lowercase) in general in MD.  I just wanted to clarify that the experience you are talking about was not with Evelyn.  


I am growing a concern that this culture of silence we have in MD may be doing our midwives more harm than good.   


post #36 of 70

No, my story was with Joey P. 

post #37 of 70

Do we really have some weird code of silence or is it that MDC is where most of the conversation happens, and MDC doesn't allow negative comments?  I know I get most of my info here, and as soon as something negative is said threads start disappearing.  That's how they roll here....

post #38 of 70


Evelyn would like everyone to know that if they have any questions about her or ABC they should call her on her cell phone.   The office number message line will give you her cell number 410-455-9659.  Every one of our three birth assistants are ALSO available to talk to and our numbers are on the business card every client receives at their first visit.  It would be best if everyone who needs to know what is going on speak to one of us. 

Edited by homewithtwinsmama - 10/22/11 at 8:48pm
post #39 of 70
Originally Posted by isismamakat View Post

No, my story was with Joey P. 

Yeah, not with this provider. I think IsisMamaKat saw the thread and didn't realize that Alternative Birth Choices is the name of the practice. :) 


Originally Posted by KatyLinda View Post

Do we really have some weird code of silence or is it that MDC is where most of the conversation happens, and MDC doesn't allow negative comments?  I know I get most of my info here, and as soon as something negative is said threads start disappearing.  That's how they roll here....

That bothers me, to be honest. If I had been able to google for bad experiences with my former midwife, I wouldn't have chosen her. I saw good experiences here... 


But I think there is some odd code of silence. Because we need to be nicer to the people who are "doing the greater good" even if they hurt us. If it was an OB, I'd be doing the exact same thing. This isn't because my provider was a midwife and she's an "easier target" in this "war"


post #40 of 70

Oh, sorry for the confusion, I did not know that was the name of the practice.

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