2011 Fall recipe for family...problems - Page 2

[Caneel]

Originally Posted by Essie 

Do you have experience with having to deal with stuff like this on your own and w/out DH? or did you just mean with dysfunctional alcoholics?

 

On my own with dysfunctional alcoholics and other behavioral problems within my own family.  With DH in issues associated with his family of origin.  My DH is a strong man but his father and Step mother could reduce him to a puddle.  He could not stand up to him, it was like he reverted to that scared, abused 5 yo as soon as FIL started in on the manipulative, bullying behaviors. He made the decision to break all contact with them long before we had a child.  They were a big part of the reason we waited so long to TTC, we were afraid that we could never 'get out' once a child came into the family.

You mentioned that your DH "said he didn't recall anything from his childhood that was unordinary like that"  I say the following gently - your DH memory may be fooling him.  In addition to my DH, I have several friends who are children of abusive active alcoholics/addicts as well as abusive "dry drunks" and we all have blocked out the really bad stuff at one time or another, it is a protection mechanism. 

Doing some research on co-dependency might give you more insight into your DH and how he is (not) handling the situation.  One of my big mistakes in our journey towards breaking ties with the ILs was that I could not keep my mouth shut about how I thought DH wasn't doing enough to improve his situation.  My family issues were bad but no where near DH's.  I didn't have the twisted, manipulative element going on.   At the time, I had no idea where DH was in his progression towards independence, I was impatient, I didn't understand how hard it was for him, I was constantly on him to stand up for himself, to just "do something".  Later, I learned how my attitude hurt DH.   We often compare his relationship with the ILs to a woman who can't leave an abusive spouse.  If you haven't lived it, you don't know how strong those emotional chains can be. 

Who initiates the visits?  FIL? or your DH?  Have they always stayed in touch or is this something new?

There are some members over in Parents as Partners that have experience in similar situations, might worth popping over there for some advice on dealing with the DH element of this situation.

[Essie]

Something that just triggered in my brain; FIL was divorced from his 2nd wife (first is DH's Mom). I knew her, and I don't know why they are not together other than she said he was very "rigid" in his ways. I know it was hard for her, but I remember when it was going on she didn't divulge much other than that. I wouldn't have expected her to anyway, it's not like we were really close. I knew her well enough though that she would have talked to me. What I am wondering is if something came up related to what my post is about. I will never know unless I track her down and ask. It wouldn't be right of me to do that, but now I am so curious. I even did a search online to see if I could find anything on FIL but didn't.

I suppose I am looking for some other validation. 

[swd12422]

You don't need validation. Every pedophile has a first victim, so there's no history at that point. Whether or not your son was being groomed, whether or not your FIL really is a pedophile with a history, none of that is important. What is important is that you saw the behavior with your son, and are doing something about it, to avoid anything worse happening. That is all that's important. Who cares what his true motives or history are? He's dangerous to your son, and he needs to be kept away.

[Imakcerka]

Ok, I skipped ahead after I read over and over that DH should have said something I just wanted to get this out.  A lot of times we divide up who has to do the dirty work by who is closely related.  If DH's dad did that, or said things in that nature and I hear it.  DH around or not it is now me who is closely related.  BECAUSE I know the situation and I can gauge what needs to be said and what needs to be said I can not express here without offending someone.  All drawn lines are out the window. 

[BroodyWoodsgal]

Originally Posted by Imakcerka 

Ok, I skipped ahead after I read over and over that DH should have said something I just wanted to get this out.  A lot of times we divide up who has to do the dirty work by who is closely related.  If DH's dad did that, or said things in that nature and I hear it.  DH around or not it is now me who is closely related.  BECAUSE I know the situation and I can gauge what needs to be said and what needs to be said I can not express here without offending someone.  All drawn lines are out the window. 

Dead on.

I don't care who you are or who you are related to....I hear you say inappropriate things to my kid, it's on. If something NEEDS to be said in the situation, I'm going to say it. I should note, however, that my DH prefers that I do the talking anyway.

[Essie]

Originally Posted by Imakcerka 

Ok, I skipped ahead after I read over and over that DH should have said something I just wanted to get this out.  A lot of times we divide up who has to do the dirty work by who is closely related.  If DH's dad did that, or said things in that nature and I hear it.  DH around or not it is now me who is closely related.  BECAUSE I know the situation and I can gauge what needs to be said and what needs to be said I can not express here without offending someone.  All drawn lines are out the window. 

I think I get what you are saying, but I want you to know that you won't offend me if you are talking about "here" being this thread. Can you pm me if that's what you meant? really, I want to hear it all! 

Thank you

[Essie]

Originally Posted by Caneel 

On my own with dysfunctional alcoholics and other behavioral problems within my own family.  With DH in issues associated with his family of origin.  My DH is a strong man but his father and Step mother could reduce him to a puddle.  He could not stand up to him, it was like he reverted to that scared, abused 5 yo as soon as FIL started in on the manipulative, bullying behaviors. He made the decision to break all contact with them long before we had a child.  They were a big part of the reason we waited so long to TTC, we were afraid that we could never 'get out' once a child came into the family.

You mentioned that your DH "said he didn't recall anything from his childhood that was unordinary like that"  I say the following gently - your DH memory may be fooling him.  In addition to my DH, I have several friends who are children of abusive active alcoholics/addicts as well as abusive "dry drunks" and we all have blocked out the really bad stuff at one time or another, it is a protection mechanism. 

Doing some research on co-dependency might give you more insight into your DH and how he is (not) handling the situation.  One of my big mistakes in our journey towards breaking ties with the ILs was that I could not keep my mouth shut about how I thought DH wasn't doing enough to improve his situation.  My family issues were bad but no where near DH's.  I didn't have the twisted, manipulative element going on.   At the time, I had no idea where DH was in his progression towards independence, I was impatient, I didn't understand how hard it was for him, I was constantly on him to stand up for himself, to just "do something".  Later, I learned how my attitude hurt DH.   We often compare his relationship with the ILs to a woman who can't leave an abusive spouse.  If you haven't lived it, you don't know how strong those emotional chains can be. 

Who initiates the visits?  FIL? or your DH?  Have they always stayed in touch or is this something new?

There are some members over in Parents as Partners that have experience in similar situations, might worth popping over there for some advice on dealing with the DH element of this situation.

Hi, I don't know how to select portions of posts but I wanted to respond to parts of yours. I did think of the fact that just b/c DH couldn't recall anything strange from his childhood with FIL doesn't mean it didn't occur. I've had friends in my life who have had dysfunction in their families and have talked a lot about it with friends, etc. I am familiar with how the brain can shut out what is traumatic, or in my personal experience; hang on to it. I appreciate your feedback on your exp. with DH, b/c I think I was doing the same thing in that I was expecting DH to take over and fight back, stand up immediately and take care of it. I do get that even though FIL is despicable in my eyes, there is a different dynamic between FIL and DH. I know this b/c my sister and I have similar stuff going on with our Mom in terms of standing up for ourselves when she says things that are hurtful and negative. 

I suppose I figured that in this situation; what FIL said trumps it all and was really hurt and angry that DH didn't transform into a warrior and "nip it in the bud".  I can be thankful that FIL and DH's mom are divorced and that basically her side of the family wants nothing to do with FIL. This was before the DS incident, as my MIL said that he was a crappy Dad and skipped out on child support. 

Anyway, DH has stayed in contact with FIL over the course of the time I have known him but it's been inconsistent at times. FIL is almost always the one to initiate visits, so we are better off there. This sounds morbid and maybe evil, but at the rate FIL poisons himself with alcohol and a bad diet nature will take it's course and his body will fail him and that will be that. However, I can't rely on that to take care of controlling what *is*.

[Essie]

Originally Posted by AverysMomma 

Dead on.

I don't care who you are or who you are related to....I hear you say inappropriate things to my kid, it's on. If something NEEDS to be said in the situation, I'm going to say it. I should note, however, that my DH prefers that I do the talking anyway.

you are lucky DH prefers to do the talking! sometimes I think maybe this situation arose because the universe or God is telling me to finally speak up and out and stand up for myself; which in this case means my son! it's easier for me to think of it that way instead of just being angry at DH for not acting the way I fantasized him to.

[csekywithlove]

All of the ladies have made excellent points. I think you are doing the right thing. I completely understand being angry and wanting your FIL to know why. But with alcoholics they will most likely never admit that what they did was wrong and even if they do, they will probably do it again. 

What your FIL proposed was completely inappropriate. We live with my parents and the ONLY time my DSS has ever slept with my father (his only grandparent besides my mother) was once when they fell asleep watching cartoons. Mind you they were on separate sides of the bed with their backs to one another. It actually made my DH and I laugh because DSS hardly ever co-sleeps with either one of us. My father would NEVER ask a child to sleep in the bed with him. He is a registered nurse and his brother was a social worker. I have heard the discussions they have had about situations that you have described turning into more and it is never a calm discussion.

Does your FIL usually come to town for the holidays or do you all go there? Also, don't feel like DH needs to stand up to him because it is his father. It's YOUR son. My DH can get vocal but I am usually the mouthpiece and he is the one who glares. If you have to take charge of the situation with FIL, do it. As long as your son is protected, that is all that matters. Besides, at this point does the relationship with FIL really matter? I'm sorry if I sound harsh and I don't mean to. I have cousins who were abused by a family member and it broke our family.... I don't want that to happen to yours.

[Essie]

Originally Posted by csekywithlove 

All of the ladies have made excellent points. I think you are doing the right thing. I completely understand being angry and wanting your FIL to know why. But with alcoholics they will most likely never admit that what they did was wrong and even if they do, they will probably do it again. 

What your FIL proposed was completely inappropriate. We live with my parents and the ONLY time my DSS has ever slept with my father (his only grandparent besides my mother) was once when they fell asleep watching cartoons. Mind you they were on separate sides of the bed with their backs to one another. It actually made my DH and I laugh because DSS hardly ever co-sleeps with either one of us. My father would NEVER ask a child to sleep in the bed with him. He is a registered nurse and his brother was a social worker. I have heard the discussions they have had about situations that you have described turning into more and it is never a calm discussion.

Does your FIL usually come to town for the holidays or do you all go there? Also, don't feel like DH needs to stand up to him because it is his father. It's YOUR son. My DH can get vocal but I am usually the mouthpiece and he is the one who glares. If you have to take charge of the situation with FIL, do it. As long as your son is protected, that is all that matters. Besides, at this point does the relationship with FIL really matter? I'm sorry if I sound harsh and I don't mean to. I have cousins who were abused by a family member and it broke our family.... I don't want that to happen to yours.

Thank you.

what you said about your Dad and and his brother and their discussions about these situations turning into more is a real wake up call and complete clarity for me that I have done right. I am good with the fact that I need to be the one to be the warrior here. No, the relationship doesn't matter to me with FIL. It is still difficult for me to hear DH justify that "my mom thought that not saying anything until it comes up so why don't I agree with her? he's saying that b/c he thinks that I would side with her opinion. However, my dad thinks just the opposite and that it's appalling and that FIL should be told by us that he's not welcome here and we won't be going there anymore (at least not DS). I could care less that someone else thinks that way. What i do find bizarre is that my sister who is a social worker and works with kids, took the stance of my mom and DS's mom which is why confront him when he will deny it, and say something "when" it comes up. Of course, MIL thinks we should just not mention it and focus on the we dont' want to be around you when you are drinking. He will refute that anyway, so wth?

again,

Thank you

No, you are not being harsh at all. 

[Essie]

Am I right to not send a school picture of DS to FIL this year? after our visit he asked me for a photo of the three of us and I never sent it. Said I couldn't get it to work from my phone. This is all so warped. 

[swd12422]

I wouldn't bother. You'll have copies for yourselves. If there is ever a time when it seems to be appropriate to do that, you can make a copy from whatever school year (or all of them) and share them. Now wouldn't be the time, IMO. I wouldn't be initiating contact with him for any reason, unless it concerns something serious with DH (like hospitalization or death). Beyond that, he'd be out.

[Essie]

Originally Posted by swd12422 

I wouldn't bother. You'll have copies for yourselves. If there is ever a time when it seems to be appropriate to do that, you can make a copy from whatever school year (or all of them) and share them. Now wouldn't be the time, IMO. I wouldn't be initiating contact with him for any reason, unless it concerns something serious with DH (like hospitalization or death). Beyond that, he'd be out.

Ditto. Sounds dumb but I am just a self doubter and guilt ridden by nature even though I know this guy is not deserving.

Thank you!

[swd12422]

It's not dumb. And it's so much easier for me to say from way over here than it would be if I were in your shoes. It's so hard to believe it's really that bad when something like this happens, and then you start wondering if you're overreacting and it's nothing or not so bad, and then you feel bad.... That's how abuse works.

[Essie]

Originally Posted by swd12422 

It's not dumb. And it's so much easier for me to say from way over here than it would be if I were in your shoes. It's so hard to believe it's really that bad when something like this happens, and then you start wondering if you're overreacting and it's nothing or not so bad, and then you feel bad.... That's how abuse works.

Exactly. Thank you.

I noticed that after all of this happened at FIL's house he kept giving me things and bought me a couple of things (to be nice) I thanked him, but in my gut felt like he was doing it out of guilt and also b/c it's a way of making himself not look like such a jerk. Doesn't fool me. No one will ever hurt DS and he will never go unprotected as I did when I was a child. It only takes one time, you all are right. I am lucky in a sick way that FIL said what he did so we *know*.

[Essie]

I am working on setting boundaries. For me it sometimes isn't immediate to identify if a boundary has been crossed. It's frustrating but I am working on being more empowered.