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RANT – Top Myths the Crunchy Community States about BFing

post #1 of 40
Thread Starter 

This is a rant & I’m admittedly bitter. You have been warned. Still though, I think this is useful info & am curious to see if others disagree – that they were NOT misled on these issues. The “sources” for the following myths are from my BF education - which consisted of a compilation of:

Books: Dr. Sears “The Baby Book,” the older version (back in 2008) of “The Womanly Art of BFing,” Dr. Jack Newman’s BF book, Sheila Kitzinger’s BF book

90 minute BF class given by an LC at the hospital where I had my DS (a very baby-friendly hospital), 3 pediatricians at my pedi office, a handful of LLL meetings, reading Kellymom & MDC.

 

 

1. What you eat doesn’t impact baby (with the exceptions of rare allergies & caffeine.)

I learned the hard way that this is not true when, at 6 weeks old, I had 2 bowls of black bean soup for dinner & the next day DS was inconsolably crying & farting a lot. THEN I read in Dr. Sears book that foods that make Mom gassy can make baby gassy too. Awesome.

 

2. Small breasts are not a problem – breast size is irrelevant.

This is what I call a “Factoid” – there is a tiny bit of truth hidden amongst what is an overall falsehood. The true part is that we small-breasted CAN make enough milk.

The falsehood part is that breast size is irrelevant. Not so. We can have a “storage capacity” problem – so we only make enough milk in total (all day long) if we BF frequently. I BF my son for 2 years & thought I’d learned a lot in that time & the time prior to DD’s birth. But I had NEVER heard of the concept of “storage capacity” until it was YET ANOTHER thing I learned the hard way.

 

3. As long as you BF on-demand, you are good to go. (Baby can sleep longer stretches at 3 mos + of age. Let baby sleep, BF on-demand, it’s fine.)

DD, at 3 mos old, started sleeping 8-10 hours a stretch at night. My pedi told me to stop worrying, she’s growing, she’s fine, let her sleep. Then at 4 mos, her weight gain had dropped precipitously & my supply took a dive.

So perhaps this one is true for some women, but me of the low-storage capacity, I was hosed.

 

4. As long as baby is BF on–demand, seems content post-feeding, is peeing & pooping within recommended thresholds, & weight gain was adequately established with regular checkups the first 3 mos, you are good to go.

NOPE, your baby can be “happy to starve.” Great news, eh?

DD had NO SIGNS that she wasn’t getting enough – none at all. As matter of fact, was MORE happy from 3-4 mos old when she, undoubtedly wasn’t getting enough. AND she was EXCEEDING all her developmental milestones!!

So looking at those guidelines of wet & dirty diapers, # daily feeds, contentment, even developmental milestones is NOT adequate to make sure baby is getting enough.

 

5. If you can BF for 6 weeks, you can BF for 6 mos.

Another “factoid.” I do agree the first few weeks are hardest (torturous with my DS because my nipples cracked, total agony for 4 weeks, moderate agony for another 3 weeks from there.) But it still simply isn’t true.

Also – prolactin levels take a dive around 3 or 4 mos, so baby can “live on the letdown” in the meantime. Prolactin can make enough milk flow for baby to gain sufficiently even if baby has a lousy suck. But when the prolactin levels decline, then you’re in for it. So on the contrary, problems can EMERGE later.

Plus, see low capacity when baby starts sleeping longer.

 

6. Nipple pain is always due to a bad latch or some other “problem” or you are doing something “wrong.”

This dogmatic mantra made me BONKERS with my son. Absolutely bonkers. For one thing, my nipples cracked! I met with 4 different LCs & they parroted this. Then they’d say, “So let me check your latch.” They would check, then say, “It looks good.” I stood there just baffled… “Sooooo… what am I doing wrong because this is the same latch I’ve had all along?”

 

One of them actually said to me, I kid you not, “Oh, wait, YOU MOVED! Look, the latch slipped, you have to keep the latch good the whole time.” I suspected even at the time that she only said that because she had no idea & she wanted to say something but I ignored my instincts on that. I was in such pain, that I was desperate for an answer that could lead to a solution, so I started BFing with my whole body locked RIGID & ended up with lots of neck & shoulder pain as a result of her brilliant advice. Awesome.

No one had the sense to just say to me, “Of course you are in pain, your nipples are cracked! You’re doing well, keep at it, they will heal.”

Not only that, but pain at first is more common than not. Stop telling women they’re “DOING IT WRONG.”

 

7. Baby should BF less frequently as he grows older.

See low storage capacity problem. Baby’s tummy may increase in size, but my breasts aren’t getting any bigger as she grows!! My abysmal storage capacity remains abysmal, so fewer daily feedings & longer intervals between feedings aren’t going to fly. Stop saying this!

 

8. Women rarely have a problem with supply if they BF on demand

WRONG! A study showed 5% “unexplained” low-supply. Folks, that is NOT an insignificant number.

Then there is the low-storage capacity thing. I did BF on demand. But my supply couldn’t survive the long stretches of sleep at night because of my low storage capacity.

 

9. Any problems are generally attributed to “booby traps” – things that undermine BFing, or perhaps physical issues. But generally, there is some ‘cause’ to point to if things aren’t going well. --> Generally without a specific problem, things work.

Per above, 5% unexplained low supply is not insignificant. Stop making those of us in this camp (i.e. “very well educated & tried really hard & still had problems” camp) feel like failures.

NATURE GETS IT WRONG SOMETIMES. BFing doesn’t work sometimes. Stop making it out to be OUR FAULT by saying the above.

 

OK, I think I’m done.

post #2 of 40

#6 drove me around the bend with ds. I cried soooooo many tears of frustration trying to figure out what I was doing so incredibly wrong. Like you said, everyone who looked said my latch looked fine. But in time they got better. With dd I am going through exactly the same thing. Some of just take a little time to adjust to having someone sucking on our nipples much of the day.

post #3 of 40

Regarding #6, my right breast hurt the entire time, all 17 months of nursing.  Ds had a very efficient latch and he was perfectly satisfied.  My nipples never cracked, there was never anything that could be 'treated'.  My best guess is that there was a vein in just the wrong spot for him to latch on.

post #4 of 40

This thread makes me sad, but I know some of it's true, too.  Breastfeeding hurt like hell for the first two months, and hurt a lot during the third month.  My kid had a terrific latch, as attested to by a LC and LLL folks.  Same deal with my older son.  I certainly kept on, but it sucked.  So to speak ROTFLMAO.gif

 

However, he is almost 19 months now and nursing is pretty wonderful.  It continues to be convenient, bonding, comfortable, comforting, and sweet.

 

My guess is that it's also why he doesn't STTN (in addition to co-sleeping), but that's another story...

post #5 of 40

I do have to take issue with #2- breast size isn't the same as storage capacity.  The same kind of problem can happen with larger breasts, if they have small storage capacity. 

post #6 of 40
This might make people cringe, but it really made me feel good to read this! I have been struggling for 6 months and am so tired and frustrated and it feels so good to know that I'm not just this lone screw up who can't figure out such a 'beautiful, natural' thing. I wish it truly was like they say..that if u give it your all and stick it out, it will be beautiful and amazing.
post #7 of 40

So with #4, the issue is that you have to keep weighing them, right? Not just say "Oh, s/he was fine at 3 months so I'm sure everything is good"?

 

I had some issues with #6 too. I couldn't figure out why I had nipple pain and nobody gave me satisfactory answers. I think she is a little tongue-tied but eventually it went away on its own, so I'm not sure if she outgrew her tongue-tie just enough or if I just got acclimated to it. But the first three weeks or so were pretty bad.

post #8 of 40
#6 got me. I have an issue with muscle spasms, and tore a muscle under my breast while I was pregnant with DD. I was having constant pain, and saw an LC. They told me that me leaning into the baby instead of pulling the baby into me was the issue. I'm disabled, and everything I've read has said that leaning into the baby can be a good method for those with limited mobility or strength in the arms. My OB assumed it was a cyst, and sent me off for an ultrasound. It scared the crap out of me, because my mom found her breast cancer after finding what she thought was a cyst during nursing my younger sister. I even rented a hospital pump, thinking that my Pump In Style wasn't strong enough for pumping at work. The whole time, it was nothing but residual pain from the tear! Why couldn't anyone help me to see that while I was nursing?

I did get pretty sore during the first few weeks on the nipples, too. My OB came into my hospital room to check on me while I was there, and saw some lanolin sitting out. He actually asked what it was. When I told him, he said "Huh. Does it actually work?" Yeah. Needless to say I didn't stay with him for very long. Everyone in that office was clueless about breastfeeding, and they work for a Baby Friendly hospital that strongly supports breastfeeding.
post #9 of 40
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meredith&Alexander View Post

I do have to take issue with #2- breast size isn't the same as storage capacity.  The same kind of problem can happen with larger breasts, if they have small storage capacity. 


Well, I honestly couldn't find much on it, but Kellymom writes:

 

"Storage capacity is not determined by breast size, although breast size can certainly limit the amount of milk that can be stored."

 

I was barely an A-cup before BFing, and even lactating, I'm just around a B. It could be coincidence, but I doubt it. (My DS didn't have a problem with weight gain, but he BF about 13X a day & even at 5-6 mos old, BF more frequently than "normal."

 


Quote:
Originally Posted by erigeron View Post

So with #4, the issue is that you have to keep weighing them, right? Not just say "Oh, s/he was fine at 3 months so I'm sure everything is good"?

 

Right - and keep weighing them REGULARLY. I felt awful when I found out at 4 mos that she'd gained only about .33 oz per day the past month... so she'd been underfed for a whole month & I didn't realize. (To be fair, she gained a LOT of length in that time & gained in head circ, so she wasn't totally malnourished, but I do think she wasn't getting enough.)

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by caedenmomma View Post

This thread makes me sad, but I know some of it's true, too.  


It makes me sad too. It makes me sad the the supposed "experts" all too often don't give better advice. It makes me sad that the lack of info leads to both women feeling bad when they fall within the realm of normal AND women getting into trouble because they were misled by people who supposedly support BF.

 

post #10 of 40
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meredith&Alexander View Post

I do have to take issue with #2- breast size isn't the same as storage capacity.  The same kind of problem can happen with larger breasts, if they have small storage capacity. 


Oh, and you're right that storage capacity problems can happen with large breasts. So I guess there's no "myth" there - it's just that storage capacity is yet another thing no one talks about much, that's all.

Another thing that blind-sided me with my DD, even after I thought I had learned lots after my DS.

 

Pretty much any kind of problem you can think of, I've had - except mastitis.

post #11 of 40

#6 makes me absolutely livid, because it gets thrown around by EVERYONE.   "IF it hurts, you're doing it wrong."

 

Well, no.  Especially at the beginning, it can hurt even if your'e doing everything right.   Toe-curling pain on latch at 6 weeks is not necessarily a sign of bad latch.  

 

I know more than one person who *gave up breastfeeding* over #6, because they could not figure out how to "Fix" their "Bad latch" and thought it would be like that forever.   

 

i"d like to add a #9 -- or maybe it should be #! -- "Breastfeeding is instinctive!  Everyone knows how to do it!"

It's not true.  Breastfeeding in primates is learned behavior -- even chimps/gorillas who ahve never seen an adult female nursing don't know what to do when their own baby is born.   There are only a modicum of instincts involved -- the instinct to latch for a baby, and the instinct to DO SOMETHING for a mother. The details need to be learned, if they weren't learned from watching your own mom/aunts/friends in childhood.w

post #12 of 40

I think the 5% the OP is refering to is the estimate that 95% of women could breastfeed. That doesn't mean that 5% of women that try to breastfeed have unexplained low milk supply. The 5% are women with no breasts, women that have quads, women with cancer and have to have chemo, women with HIV in the US, a few other diseases in the US, extreme breast abnormalities, that kind of thing.

 

It seems like the OP had a lot of info and consulted LCs but somehow she misunderstood her problems.

 

1. She should have recognized there is a lot of conflicting information. MDs are not experts on breastfeeding. Want info on breastfeeding you go to breastfeeding experts.

2. Storage capacity usually isn't mentioned for smaller breastfed women because it isn't a big deal. Your breasts aren't storage containers for milk like bottles. There is only a small amount of milk stored even in large breasts.

3. Again, who would listen to a doctor that tells them to let their baby sleep 8-10 hours a night when they have other sources of info explaining why this is not a good idea.

4. How you tell if a baby is getting enough milk is weight gain. Breastfeeding books, classes, and LCs tell you that. You get scales and weigh your baby.

5. I don't think people say if you can breastfeed 6 weeks you can breastfeed 6 months. I think people say most women quit breastfeeding in the first 6 weeks. Breastfeeding problems can happen any time.

6. Nipple pain is not always due to a bad latch. Books and web sites have lists of things that can cause nipple pain. Wet nursing pads were a problem for me. In the early weeks I couldn't wear bras because they pushed my nipples in. If I went bra free I was fine. If I wore a bra I had sore nipples that were bright red.

7. Some babies nurse less frequently as they get older. Babies that love nursing don't. They many nurse 8 times a day when they are 2.

8. Many women don't understand breastfeeding on demand or on cue. They aren't that in tune with their baby. Women who breastfeed on cue at least 8-12 times a day should have a good supply. If you put your baby in swings, seats, cribs in other containers for much of the day you may have problems reading your baby's cues.

9. Somehow breastfeeding advocates make women that don't breastfeed for a certain amount of time feel like failures. That gives breastfeeding advocates a lot of power. In the situation you are describing you are not in the 5% of women that can't breastfeed (remember the 5% isn't women with low supply). It sounds like you were still breastfeeding at 3-4 months. So you were in at least the 60% still breastfeeding at 3-4 months. There are things that you did that we can look back and we know are associated with low weight gain like letting the baby sleep 8-10 hours, not weighing the baby to make sure the baby was gaining 4 oz a week, not nursing 8-12 times a day, ect. When you knew your baby was having weight issues there were things you could do to increase your supply that you may not have done.

 

We need to take responsibility for our health behaviors. We can't let our 3 month old baby sleep 10 hours at night because the MD told us to and then say we had "unexplained" low milk supply. When a MD or any "expert" tells us something that doesn't make sense we need to do some fact checking. It is so easy now with the internet.

post #13 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by foreverinbluejeans View Post

2. Storage capacity usually isn't mentioned for smaller breastfed women because it isn't a big deal. Your breasts aren't storage containers for milk like bottles. There is only a small amount of milk stored even in large breasts.

 

Say what?  Then what is engorgement?  Isn't it excessive amounts of breastmilk in the breasts?  I recently had an overnight trip away from my two nursing kiddos, they like to nurse often.  My son nurses 6-12 times a day and is extremely efficient at getting milk, so I produce a lot for him.  My daughter nurses, oh, I dunno, tons, and so I  make a lot for her.  After 20 hours away from my kids I was in pain and had massive rocks in my breasts.  I'm sure I'm not the only woman who has experienced this.  So if breasts aren't storage containers for milk, why did I have so much gol durn milk in my breasts?!?

post #14 of 40
Quote:

Originally Posted by foreverinbluejeans View Post

 

3. Again, who would listen to a doctor that tells them to let their baby sleep 8-10 hours a night when they have other sources of info explaining why this is not a good idea.

 

....

8. Many women don't understand breastfeeding on demand or on cue. They aren't that in tune with their baby. Women who breastfeed on cue at least 8-12 times a day should have a good supply. If you put your baby in swings, seats, cribs in other containers for much of the day you may have problems reading your baby's cues.

....

 

When you knew your baby was having weight issues there were things you could do to increase your supply that you may not have done.

 

We need to take responsibility for our health behaviors. We can't let our 3 month old baby sleep 10 hours at night because the MD told us to and then say we had "unexplained" low milk supply. When a MD or any "expert" tells us something that doesn't make sense we need to do some fact checking. It is so easy now with the internet.

 

And it's statements like these from breastfeeding advocates that make women feel guilty and judged. No matter how much trouble a woman has, her issues are always her own fault. Her own mental health in the matter never even enters into it! If she decides to trust a professional, if she doesn't trust a professional and does her own research, if she is just overwhelmed and wants to give up so she can get her life and sanity back--in any of these cases, she gets judged. 

post #15 of 40

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MegBoz View Post

6. Nipple pain is always due to a bad latch or some other “problem” or you are doing something “wrong.”

This dogmatic mantra made me BONKERS with my son. Absolutely bonkers. For one thing, my nipples cracked! I met with 4 different LCs & they parroted this. Then they’d say, “So let me check your latch.” They would check, then say, “It looks good.” I stood there just baffled… “Sooooo… what am I doing wrong because this is the same latch I’ve had all along?”

 

One of them actually said to me, I kid you not, “Oh, wait, YOU MOVED! Look, the latch slipped, you have to keep the latch good the whole time.” I suspected even at the time that she only said that because she had no idea & she wanted to say something but I ignored my instincts on that. I was in such pain, that I was desperate for an answer that could lead to a solution, so I started BFing with my whole body locked RIGID & ended up with lots of neck & shoulder pain as a result of her brilliant advice. Awesome.

No one had the sense to just say to me, “Of course you are in pain, your nipples are cracked! You’re doing well, keep at it, they will heal.”

Not only that, but pain at first is more common than not. Stop telling women they’re “DOING IT WRONG.”


This one has infuriated me from the start. My son's latch wasn't perfect at the beginning, but once we got it right, it still hurt to nurse. Especially at the end of the day - I don't care how you slice it, after nursing on demand for an entire day my nipples are sore and it's not going to feel pleasant. And you know what? It's not because I'm screwing it up, it's because my skin is sensitive and has been pulled/chomped/sucked on all day! 

post #16 of 40
LC's CAN be very helpful, if you get a good one. You know the thing that helped me the most? Her being frank with me and saying "Look, you're a professional, smart woman. This is a completely new skill for both of you. It is going to take some time to get it down. Be easy on yourself. Don't beat yourself up because you have to work at it." Even though I was determined to nurse for at least one year, that one statement a few days after DD was born helped so much in keeping me going.
post #17 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by foreverinbluejeans View Post

 

6. Nipple pain is not always due to a bad latch. Books and web sites have lists of things that can cause nipple pain. Wet nursing pads were a problem for me. In the early weeks I couldn't wear bras because they pushed my nipples in. If I went bra free I was fine. If I wore a bra I had sore nipples that were bright red.

 

8. Many women don't understand breastfeeding on demand or on cue. They aren't that in tune with their baby. Women who breastfeed on cue at least 8-12 times a day should have a good supply. If you put your baby in swings, seats, cribs in other containers for much of the day you may have problems reading your baby's cues.

 

 

#6:  And sometimes nipple pain is just nipple pain, because it can take a few weeks for nipples to get used to sucking, and it stil doesn't mean "you're doing' it wrong!"    "Lists of things that can cause nipple pain" = "Look, Mama, you're doing it wrong!  Do it our way and it won't hurt!"    Fact is, for some of us, we could be walkigna round stripped to the waist with perfectly-latched babies and it would still hurt at the beginning.   Pretending pain only happens if you're an imperfect breastfeeder does no one any favors.

 

#8:   Oh, now we come to it.  'IF you were in tune with your baby, you'd make breastfeeding work.  If breastfeeding isn't working for you, its probably because you and your baby aren't bonded, because you're not doing attachment parenting right!!!      

Guilt:  Not a great motivator.

 

My credentials, by the way:  Nursed both babies exclusively to 6 months (admittedly, wtih a bottle when I worked in the mornings, which I know pretty much destroys all breastfeeding cred around here).   NO formula ever, for either of them.   Even though one of them started sleeping 6 hour stretches at 11 weeks -- all on his own!!   

post #18 of 40

Sadly the post below just works to make your point, MegBoz.

 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by foreverinbluejeans View Post

I think the 5% the OP is refering to is the estimate that 95% of women could breastfeed. That doesn't mean that 5% of women that try to breastfeed have unexplained low milk supply. The 5% are women with no breasts, women that have quads, women with cancer and have to have chemo, women with HIV in the US, a few other diseases in the US, extreme breast abnormalities, that kind of thing.

 

It seems like the OP had a lot of info and consulted LCs but somehow she misunderstood her problems.

 

1. She should have recognized there is a lot of conflicting information. MDs are not experts on breastfeeding. Want info on breastfeeding you go to breastfeeding experts.

2. Storage capacity usually isn't mentioned for smaller breastfed women because it isn't a big deal. Your breasts aren't storage containers for milk like bottles. There is only a small amount of milk stored even in large breasts.

3. Again, who would listen to a doctor that tells them to let their baby sleep 8-10 hours a night when they have other sources of info explaining why this is not a good idea.

4. How you tell if a baby is getting enough milk is weight gain. Breastfeeding books, classes, and LCs tell you that. You get scales and weigh your baby.

5. I don't think people say if you can breastfeed 6 weeks you can breastfeed 6 months. I think people say most women quit breastfeeding in the first 6 weeks. Breastfeeding problems can happen any time.

6. Nipple pain is not always due to a bad latch. Books and web sites have lists of things that can cause nipple pain. Wet nursing pads were a problem for me. In the early weeks I couldn't wear bras because they pushed my nipples in. If I went bra free I was fine. If I wore a bra I had sore nipples that were bright red.

7. Some babies nurse less frequently as they get older. Babies that love nursing don't. They many nurse 8 times a day when they are 2.

8. Many women don't understand breastfeeding on demand or on cue. They aren't that in tune with their baby. Women who breastfeed on cue at least 8-12 times a day should have a good supply. If you put your baby in swings, seats, cribs in other containers for much of the day you may have problems reading your baby's cues.

9. Somehow breastfeeding advocates make women that don't breastfeed for a certain amount of time feel like failures. That gives breastfeeding advocates a lot of power. In the situation you are describing you are not in the 5% of women that can't breastfeed (remember the 5% isn't women with low supply). It sounds like you were still breastfeeding at 3-4 months. So you were in at least the 60% still breastfeeding at 3-4 months. There are things that you did that we can look back and we know are associated with low weight gain like letting the baby sleep 8-10 hours, not weighing the baby to make sure the baby was gaining 4 oz a week, not nursing 8-12 times a day, ect. When you knew your baby was having weight issues there were things you could do to increase your supply that you may not have done.

 

We need to take responsibility for our health behaviors. We can't let our 3 month old baby sleep 10 hours at night because the MD told us to and then say we had "unexplained" low milk supply. When a MD or any "expert" tells us something that doesn't make sense we need to do some fact checking. It is so easy now with the internet.



 

post #19 of 40

 

Quote:
We need to take responsibility for our health behaviors. We can't let our 3 month old baby sleep 10 hours at night because the MD told us to and then say we had "unexplained" low milk supply. When a MD or any "expert" tells us something that doesn't make sense we need to do some fact checking. It is so easy now with the internet.

 

BlueJeans, if you haven't already (and I do hope you have not) you should read MegBoz's previous thread that inspired this one, for a little context. 

post #20 of 40

Holy Scnitzel!  I feel you OP.  I did everything I could and man when I complained was I told I was the problem.  Mastitis, because I did something wrong.  Did they take into account that I had inverted nipples?  Uh no.  Good thing though after 30 + month collectively of nursing they're not inverted anymore.  The pain lasted in my left side forever and I still have it.  Kind of odd but other than that no other problems. 

 

When I called a consultant she told me the pain was just engorgement.  Then DH came over to kiss my forehead and said WTF?!  You have a fever you're going in.  Though he was my biggest push to nurse he was also my biggest supporter when things weren't well. 

 

When you're a new mom and maybe nursing was never something you were around, you rely so much on outside resources. 

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