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GBS Question - Page 2

post #21 of 42

I wish I would have refused the test because I turned out to be positive.  That article that jbk21 mentioned is awesome.  I found it here on mothering.com.  Thankfully my MW does not view GBS as a big deal at all, the only difference is that she transports to the hospital after 18 instead of 24 hours of water being broken, and takes babys temp hourly after birth for 6 hrs I think?  And just watches baby closely.  Also she does as few internal exams as possible.  Since I found out I'm positive I am swallowing half of a large clove of garlic daily and taking New Chapter All Flora probiotics(not at the same time as the garlic obviously!).  I'm also eating more fruits and veggies for more vitamin C.  I'm seriously considering getting retested on Monday just to see if this has all helped.  I have also heard that a person can test positive for GBS one day and negative the next, so it is unreliable anyway?  And as long as you are full term, both healthy, and you have not had lots of internal exams and interventions there is such a low risk to baby!  Another thing that occurred to me- if a mom has GBS and she obviously is not getting sick from it, she has antibodies to it right?  Then wouldnt her baby get those antibodies through breast milk?  I have not read this anywhere, just thought of it.  My MW said it makes sense to her too, but she has not read it anywhere either.

post #22 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1love4ever View Post

I have also heard that a person can test positive for GBS one day and negative the next, so it is unreliable anyway?  And as long as you are full term, both healthy, and you have not had lots of internal exams and interventions there is such a low risk to baby! 


Yes, you could test positive one day and not the next and vice versa.  BUT, the chances that you will test positive after testing negative at 36 weeks is low.  And if you have never tested positive before during pregnancy the chances of testing positive in a subsequent pregnancy are low and vice versa.  I don't have any studies to quote stats, but this is what I have heard and experienced anecdotally. 

 

post #23 of 42

My MW doesn't use hibiclens (she isn't opposed to it, but just doesn't think it's effective) specifically because it seems that the infection is only possibly harmful to baby if it is in the amniotic fluid.  So if water breaks that is one thing, but this makes me curious if it matters for a mother with intact waters to get internal exams.  It seems like it wouldn't matter.  Anyone have thoughts or studies on this?  


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1love4ever View Post

I wish I would have refused the test because I turned out to be positive.  That article that jbk21 mentioned is awesome.  I found it here on mothering.com.  Thankfully my MW does not view GBS as a big deal at all, the only difference is that she transports to the hospital after 18 instead of 24 hours of water being broken, and takes babys temp hourly after birth for 6 hrs I think?  And just watches baby closely.  Also she does as few internal exams as possible.  Since I found out I'm positive I am swallowing half of a large clove of garlic daily and taking New Chapter All Flora probiotics(not at the same time as the garlic obviously!).  I'm also eating more fruits and veggies for more vitamin C.  I'm seriously considering getting retested on Monday just to see if this has all helped.  I have also heard that a person can test positive for GBS one day and negative the next, so it is unreliable anyway?  And as long as you are full term, both healthy, and you have not had lots of internal exams and interventions there is such a low risk to baby!  Another thing that occurred to me- if a mom has GBS and she obviously is not getting sick from it, she has antibodies to it right?  Then wouldnt her baby get those antibodies through breast milk?  I have not read this anywhere, just thought of it.  My MW said it makes sense to her too, but she has not read it anywhere either.



 

post #24 of 42

I actually though about that too, with the internal exams not mattering unless water is broken.  But, I have read that a baby can get infected while still in the uterus, but I would guess that that would be when the water is already broken as well.  And my MW does not use hibiclens either, but she told me I could do it if I wanted to, I am not going to because I want the baby to get his first "dose" of probiotics while passing through the birth canal, I dont want it to be sterile and free of the good stuff as well. 

post #25 of 42

I found a few studies stating that transmission of GBS through intact membranes is "very low" or "non-existent." 

 

Quote:

Chorioamniotic membranes constitute a competent barrier to group b streptococcus in vitro


Dept. of Obstetrics and Gynecology, Aalborg Hospital, DK-9000, Aalborg, Denmark
Department of Clinical Microbiology, Aalborg Hospital, DK-9000, Aalborg, Denmark
Department of Pathology, Aalborg Hospital, DK-9000, Aalborg, Denmark
Dept. of Obstetrics and Gynecology, Aarhus University Hospital, DK-8200, Aarhus, Denmark


Abstract

Objective: To study the penetration of group B streptococcus (GBS) through human chorioamniotic membranes in vitro. Study design: Chorioamniotic membranes from seventeen healthy women were mounted onto glass cylinders and placed in tissue culture trays constituting a two-compartment system with a maternal compartment internally and a fetal compartment externally. GBS from healthy pregnant women and from newborn babies with sepsis were added to the maternal compartment at densities from 107 to 109 colony forming units (cfu) per ml. Results. Irrespective of inoculum density, GBS was not recovered from the fetal compartment within a 20 h incubation period. By histology, micro-colonies of GBS were found on the maternal surface after 8 h, but invasion of the morphologically intact membranes was not observed. A five log reduction in cfu occurred in the maternal compartment with amnion when GBS were suspended in saline. Conclusion: In this in vitro model the membranes appear to constitute an effective barrier against ascending infection. Copyright (C) 1999 Elsevier Science Ireland Ltd.

 

post #26 of 42

Thanks, Jaimee!  My bag of waters was super strong last time (I doubt it would have broken on it's own- they broke it at 9 cm and it took her multiple tries to actually get it to snag) and I had GBS so I kind of wish they hadn't broken it at all.  I'm going to up my Vit C intake so I wonder if it will break on its own this time or not.... we'll see!

post #27 of 42

Well crap my test came back positive.  I'm refusing abx and will be upping my vit C, grapefruit seed extract, and probiotics.  Ugh.  

post #28 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbk21 View Post

Well crap my test came back positive.  I'm refusing abx and will be upping my vit C, grapefruit seed extract, and probiotics.  Ugh.  

I was positive at 36.5 weeks.  I began swallowing half a large clove of garlic per day(with holes poked in the uncut side as well), taking probiotics(garden of life all-flora), eating more yogurt and eating more vitamin C rich foods.  I got retested yesterday and am hoping that it will be negative(I find out tomorrow or Friday)!   I wish I would have started taking the garlic and probiotics right after I tested positive, but I was not planning on getting retested and I didnt decide to do so until late last week, so I was only taking garlic and probiotics for 5 or 6 days, so lets hope that was enough!!  I was eating yogurt daily for the whole 2 weeks pretty much I think.  O well, we will see.  But, I love the GBS article that you posted (cant remember if it was in this thread or another) and the choice for me is obvious too- to refuse the abx(if I were to go to the hospital, my MW does not do abx).  I still worry tho!  How many weeks are you?  Maybe you could try doing all the things you mentioned, plus maybe some echinacea or something(I've heard this can help), vaginal probiotics, etc, and then get retested?  Or, if you wanted to totally cheat the test so that you just came back negative even if your not negative you could do Hibiclens.

post #29 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1love4ever View Post

I was positive at 36.5 weeks.  I began swallowing half a large clove of garlic per day(with holes poked in the uncut side as well), taking probiotics(garden of life all-flora), eating more yogurt and eating more vitamin C rich foods.  I got retested yesterday and am hoping that it will be negative(I find out tomorrow or Friday)!   I wish I would have started taking the garlic and probiotics right after I tested positive, but I was not planning on getting retested and I didnt decide to do so until late last week, so I was only taking garlic and probiotics for 5 or 6 days, so lets hope that was enough!!  I was eating yogurt daily for the whole 2 weeks pretty much I think.  O well, we will see.  But, I love the GBS article that you posted (cant remember if it was in this thread or another) and the choice for me is obvious too- to refuse the abx(if I were to go to the hospital, my MW does not do abx).  I still worry tho!  How many weeks are you?  Maybe you could try doing all the things you mentioned, plus maybe some echinacea or something(I've heard this can help), vaginal probiotics, etc, and then get retested?  Or, if you wanted to totally cheat the test so that you just came back negative even if your not negative you could do Hibiclens.


I was tested at 35w6d.  I am now 36w5days so I think I still have some time to try some things.  I'm not sure if I could stomach the garlic- I get terrible heartburn!  So you are taking oral probiotics?  Do you know of a good vaginal probiotic? I've heard of femdophilus.... I hope your second test comes back negative!  I think I'll get retested too just for peace of mind.  I do kind of worry, though the risk to baby is so miniscule.  I have an echinacea/elderberry/goldenseal supplement - I will check if that is safe during pregnancy.  

 

post #30 of 42

It seems like the concensus is that goldenseal can cause uterine contractions.  I'm not sure what the dosage would have to be though, so maybe I will check with my MW and just start taking that at like 38.5 weeks or so as a last resort kind of thing.  I mean, I wouldn't mind some uterine ctx at that point.... lol.gif

 

ETA a few other sources say that it can cross the placenta and cause brain damage in the infant.  Agh.  Maybe not so safe.....

post #31 of 42

Well, since you asked!  lol.gif

 

 

Quote:

A reproductive screening test of goldenseal


School of Biomedical Sciences, Faculty of Health Sciences, University of Sydney, Lidcombe, NSW, Australia
School of Biomedical Sciences, Faculty of Health Sciences, University of Sydney, East Street, Lidcombe, NSW 2141, Australia


Abstract

BACKGROUND: Goldenseal (Hydrastis canadensis L) is a multi-purpose herb (Hobbs, 1990: Pharm Hist 32:79-82) widely used for its antibiotic properties. It is traditionally contraindicated in pregnancy based on in vivo data but this contraindication has not been confirmed by conventional studies that have been peer reviewed. METHODS: Female rats were dosed by gavage using 65 times the human dose of goldenseal daily on either gestation days (GD) 1-8 or GD 8-15. Controls received an equivalent dose of ethanol. On GD 20, fetuses were weighed and examined for signs of external, internal, or skeletal malformations. Rat fetuses were also explanted on GD 10.5 and cultured with decreasing concentrations of goldenseal for 26 hr. Embryos were examined for growth retardation and malformations. RESULTS: There was no increase in pre- or post-implantation losses. There was no increase in fetal body weight in fetuses exposed to goldenseal. There was no difference in incidence of external or internal malformations. Goldenseal induced toxicity when GD10.5 embryos were cultured for 26 hr in rat serum to which extract was added. CONCLUSIONS: It is likely that poor absorption of goldenseal from the small intestine could explain the discrepancy between the in vivo and in vitro results. It is unlikely that serum concentration from oral treatment could attain the LOEL achieved in vitro. The contrasting results highlight the continuing importance of in vivo work and the necessity of pharmacokinetic data when interpreting in vitro data. The data suggest that goldenseal, at the prescribed human dose, is unlikely to be absorbed to an extent to be unsafe to use in pregnancy despite the apparent cytotoxic effects in vitro. However, these results indicate that pharmacokinetic studies are required to confirm this conclusion. © 2005 Wiley-Liss,

Sounds like it's not likely a problem, but would probably be considered category C due to the lack of studies on actual humans and in vivo subjects.  More studies need to be done to actually classify it appropriately so I guess it's one of those "take with caution" herbs.  Maybe not worth it?

post #32 of 42
Thread Starter 

Well, I went to my 36 week appt totally ready to test, even did garlic vaginally for a couple days.  The MW said they will not retest once positive, and hospital staff will push and push antibiotics if you have a positive.  I could refuse the test, but any fever or over 18 hours of water breaking and they will push antibiotics.  I was so unsure whether I should test, that she suggested I could wait a week to get tested.  I jumped at the option, of course!  So now I don't know if I'll do it next week or not.  Oh, these simple little decisions.  I definitely do not like the idea of dosing my amniotic fluid with antibiotics (a significant concentration of the penicillin goes into the amniotic fluid.)  It seems cruel to my baby somehow, especially since I think their developing gut once they are born is so so so important.  Vaginal delivery and breastfeeding doing a lot in the development of the gut and the flora that it contains.  Oh dear...

post #33 of 42

Thanks Jaimee!  Very helpful and you're right, it doesn't seem worth it.  

 

post #34 of 42

I get horrible heartburn but the garlic does not seem to make a difference, especially since I take it with milk(raw milk).  I should have done vaginal garlic but kinda forgot about it duh.gif    And I have never done vaginal probiotics, I should have done that one too, so no I dont know of a good one, but would love to hear if anyone has recommendations!   Maybe start a new thread in Health and Healing?  I probably wouldnt do the goldenseal either.  Not sure about echinacea tho?  And I should have been taking a higher dose probiotic I think like the Garden of Life RAW probiotics.  I wish I would have decided sooner to get retested so that I could have started all this sooner and thought it through more thoroughly!

And yeah musicmama08 I have heard that if you test positive once in pregnancy, then they will push and push abx at the hospital even if you test negative really close to your due date.  No way would I want to recieve antibiotics in labor either, have you read the article that jbk posted?  There are many downsides and risks to the abx.  Here it is http://mothering.com/pregnancy-birth/treating-group-b-strep, VERY informative and could possibly help you in your decision. 

I almost wish I would have just done Hibiclens or done all the natural remedies for GBS before my FIRST test so that it would have hopefully been negative and I would have had to worry about all this!  And yes, even tho the risk to the baby is miniscule, I still worry too because of the GBS. 

post #35 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1love4ever View Post

Not sure about echinacea tho? 

Echinacea is generally considered fine to take while pregnant, especially since it's really only effective in the short term and therefore not an herb you would be taking continuously.

 

Quote:

Safety and efficacy of echinacea (echinacea augustafolia, E. purpurea and E. pallida) during pregnancy and lactation


Department of Clinical Pharmacology and Toxicology, University of Toronto, Toronto, Ont., Canada
Department of Clinical Epidemiology, Canadian College of Naturopathic Medicine, Toronto, Ont., Canada
Motherisk Program, Hospital for Sick Children, Toronto, Ont., Canada
Department of Clinical Epidemiology, McMaster University, Hamilton, Ont., Canada


Abstract

Background: There is a lack of basic knowledge on the part of both clinicians and patients as to the indications for use and safety of herbal medicines used in pregnancy and lactation. This is one article in a series that systematically reviews the evidence for commonly used herbs during pregnancy and lactation. Objectives: To systematically review the literature for evidence on the use, safety, and pharmacology of echinacea focusing on issues pertaining to pregnancy and lactation. Methods: We searched 7 electronic databases and compiled data according to the grade of evidence found. Results: There is good scientific evidence from a prospective cohort study that oral consumption of echinacea during the first trimester does not increase the risk for major malformations. Low-level evidence based on expert opinion shows that oral consumption of echinacea in recommended doses is safe for use during pregnancy and lactation. Conclusions: Echinacea is non-teratogenic when used during pregnancy. Caution with using Echinacea during lactation until further high quality human studies can determine its safety. © 2006 The Canadian Society for Clinical Pharmacology. All rights reserved.

 


 

 

post #36 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaimee View Post

Echinacea is generally considered fine to take while pregnant, especially since it's really only effective in the short term and therefore not an herb you would be taking continuously.


Thanks!  I love the studies that you post, very informative!
 

 

post #37 of 42

I'm really not looking forward to my GBS test next week. My midwife told me that eating a lot of refined sugars can increase the likelihood I'll test positive, and of course I've been eating carbs like crazy lately because of these out-of-control cravings. Ugh. I've been taking probiotics and eating lots of garlic but not doing everything as religiously as I should be. I thought if I tested positive that I'd still have the option of declining antibiotics if for some reason I have to have the baby in the hospital, but my midwife informed me that it's not as easy as that around here. What?! Apparently if I decline antibiotics, they will hold my baby under observation for 48 hours. I cannot believe they wouldn't allow me to take my baby home whenever I want! I would probably flip out on the entire hospital staff. lol. I'm allergic to Penicillin and wouldn't even want them to give me another antibiotic since my intestinal flora is already screwed up beyond belief from 25 years of antibiotics, and I've heard that others aren't as effective on GBS as Penicillin anyway.

 

Here's to hoping I test negative and don't have to worry about a hospital transfer at any point anyway...... I'm rooting for Hibiclens at my home birth if needed.

post #38 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by birdhappy85 View Post

I'm really not looking forward to my GBS test next week. My midwife told me that eating a lot of refined sugars can increase the likelihood I'll test positive, and of course I've been eating carbs like crazy lately because of these out-of-control cravings. Ugh. I've been taking probiotics and eating lots of garlic but not doing everything as religiously as I should be. I thought if I tested positive that I'd still have the option of declining antibiotics if for some reason I have to have the baby in the hospital, but my midwife informed me that it's not as easy as that around here. What?! Apparently if I decline antibiotics, they will hold my baby under observation for 48 hours. I cannot believe they wouldn't allow me to take my baby home whenever I want! I would probably flip out on the entire hospital staff. lol. I'm allergic to Penicillin and wouldn't even want them to give me another antibiotic since my intestinal flora is already screwed up beyond belief from 25 years of antibiotics, and I've heard that others aren't as effective on GBS as Penicillin anyway.

 

Here's to hoping I test negative and don't have to worry about a hospital transfer at any point anyway...... I'm rooting for Hibiclens at my home birth if needed.


 Try not to stress!  I know it is overwhelming to think about, but the chance of you having to be in the hospital aren't that great.  You'll have a wonderful home birth, GBS+ or not.  And you're right, other abx aren't effective, so I'd absolutely refuse.  

post #39 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by birdhappy85 View Post

I'm really not looking forward to my GBS test next week. My midwife told me that eating a lot of refined sugars can increase the likelihood I'll test positive, and of course I've been eating carbs like crazy lately because of these out-of-control cravings. Ugh. I've been taking probiotics and eating lots of garlic but not doing everything as religiously as I should be. I thought if I tested positive that I'd still have the option of declining antibiotics if for some reason I have to have the baby in the hospital, but my midwife informed me that it's not as easy as that around here. What?! Apparently if I decline antibiotics, they will hold my baby under observation for 48 hours. I cannot believe they wouldn't allow me to take my baby home whenever I want! I would probably flip out on the entire hospital staff. lol. I'm allergic to Penicillin and wouldn't even want them to give me another antibiotic since my intestinal flora is already screwed up beyond belief from 25 years of antibiotics, and I've heard that others aren't as effective on GBS as Penicillin anyway.

 

Here's to hoping I test negative and don't have to worry about a hospital transfer at any point anyway...... I'm rooting for Hibiclens at my home birth if needed.

You can use hibiclens right before the GBS test so that your results will come up negative even if you really are positive

post #40 of 42



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1love4ever View Post

You can use hibiclens right before the GBS test so that your results will come up negative even if you really are positive



Yep, that's what I did last time! I did the whole garlic/vit C/probiotic regimen, plus a Hibiclens rinse once a day for the last few days before the test, and literally right before I walked out the door to go to the OB's office.

 

As far as the hospital, the only reason I even consider getting tested is in case of transfer. Around here, it's really likely that the hospital staff would call CPS on me if I refused abx during labor without proof of being GBS-. That's the absolute only reason my MW ever recommends it, which is just sad. I'm not testing this time, but if i was, I'd cheat the test with Hibiclens again, just to have a piece of paper as a CYA measure.

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