Lipstick nipple, bad latch, fussy baby, pain

[E m i c h i e e]

You might have noticed I am dealing with lots of breastfeeding problems...

We have had problems since day one - flat nipples, can't latch, tongue tie, nipple shield, low supply, blocked ducts, painful engorgement, cracked and bleeding nipples and a very bad latch. But I have managed to nurse him breast only since he was born. Granted we inserted a lactation aid in the hospital and I used a nipple shield until he was a month old, but he has never had anything other than breast milk or even a bottle with breast milk.

So I hope you can help me figure this next hurdle out 

My son is 2 months old. He is a fussy nurser, probably because of all the problems we had breastfeeding.

• He cries just when I am about to feed him, even if he was calm before.
• His latch is poor, first of all he does not open wide. He does a little pointy o lip, as if he was going to whistle and tries to suck my nipple in. I have been able to get him to open a bit wider by going up and down with my nipple but it is hard to get my short small nipples deep enough. 
• Once he is on, his lips are not flanged out..so ouch, and I have to try and fix it, his top lips keep going back in too.
• Then I have a painful letdown, which ruins the whole latch and he slides down on the nipple. If I don't let him have the letdown there is a chance he won't be full and be extremely fussy, he has no patience to suck for more let downs. So I keep him on despite the pain.
• When the flow is fast he sometimes bites down, once it slows down he hates it even more and tugs on my nipple, even twists it and throws a tantrum. Often that will get him too frustrated to continue nursing.
• When my nipples come out at the end of each feeding (when he plops off I mean, cause he does not just let go :() they are lipstick shaped and sometimes turn white.

I spoke to a WIC lactation consultant and went to a class, she was able to help me a bit, told me about his lips being pursed in. She said he is showing signs of a tongue tie, but his frenulum was cut at 3 days old. We even had it rechecked at 5 weeks and it was still fine, no scar tissue.

I am planning to also go to a la leche league breastfeeding class, but I don't know how soon I can go because it is rather far and we don't have a car.

I was hoping you would have some advice for me so I can work on the latch, my nipples hurt really badly..

He is gaining very well btw., 12oz a week atm. (when my supply was low he did not gain for a little while though)

[Adaline'sMama]

Im not an LC, and hopefully one can step in and help out, but I just wanted to say that I had a lot of the same problems and it seemed like at about 12 weeks DD just woke up and knew how to nurse. I dont know if that happens for all babies, but I had flat nipples too, so I think some of it had to do with how all of the sudden my nipples werent flat anymore (after she had pulled them out for three months ).

By the way, nursing hurt my nipples for the first three months too. You arent alone

[homemademom]

Was he checked for a lip tie? http://thefunnyshapedwoman.blogspot.com/2011/03/introducing-maxillary-labial-frenulum.html

Also, my ds had his tongue clipped at a month old and again at 6 mths.  Sometimes, it's not obvious that the tongue is still restricted.  Can he lift his tongue to the roof of his mouth?  Have you seen this link about some of the ways you can tell if the tongue is still causing problems? http://www.cwgenna.com/quickhelp.html

[E m i c h i e e]

Originally Posted by Adaline'sMama 

Im not an LC, and hopefully one can step in and help out, but I just wanted to say that I had a lot of the same problems and it seemed like at about 12 weeks DD just woke up and knew how to nurse. I dont know if that happens for all babies, but I had flat nipples too, so I think some of it had to do with how all of the sudden my nipples werent flat anymore (after she had pulled them out for three months ).
By the way, nursing hurt my nipples for the first three months too. You arent alone

My nipples have gotten better too and he can now latch on, but just not good. Thank you I hope the pain gets better, what also concerns me is that my milk supply lowers due to his bad latch.

Originally Posted by homemademom 

Was he checked for a lip tie? http://thefunnyshapedwoman.blogspot.com/2011/03/introducing-maxillary-labial-frenulum.html

Also, my ds had his tongue clipped at a month old and again at 6 mths.  Sometimes, it's not obvious that the tongue is still restricted.  Can he lift his tongue to the roof of his mouth?  Have you seen this link about some of the ways you can tell if the tongue is still causing problems? http://www.cwgenna.com/quickhelp.html

I looked at his lip right now and there is a little thingie there, not strong but will have it looked at. I never even heard of a lip tie, thanks!

I have never seen his tongue at the roof of his mouth I think, just half way. Maybe I need to see a better doctor, how can I find someone that treats tongue and lip tie?

[Amanda Williams]

I had MANY of these issues 6 years ago with our DD.

For the low supply issues (due to the bad latch, nipple shield, etc) I took Blessed Thistle and Fenugreek. I highly recommend these.

My DD didn't fatten up until about 10 months, but we did go on to nurse until she was about 15 months old. Things were MUCH better by the time she was about 6 months old.

Keep working on it, mama, it is SO worth it!

[silversparrow]

I had super-sore nipples for the first three weeks and even after that they were a bit tender for a while. My LO also would refuse to open wide, sucked his top lip in, I had painful letdown and my nipples came out shaped like that too. For me, the problem was oversupply. This also caused him to have watery green poos for the first 6 weeks and then it just got better on it's own as my supply adjusted. The painful let down thing just gradually got better. I still feel let down now, but it doesn't hurt.

The reason he wouldn't open wide was because he was trying to hold back some of the milk. He would also use his tongue to try to control the flow by doing this little smacking thing that hurt like hell! And he would smack as he came off the nipple too.

So if it is over supply, you can try drinking sage tea once or twice a day for 3 days. But if your supply is in question then don't. I chose not to because I wanted to store the extra milk.

The thing I found helped a bit was to pump or express the initial let down of foremilk, and then let him latch. You can feed him the rest after if he's still hungry.

If oversupply is definitely not your problem, than just ignore this, but I thought there were some similarities. Either way, it does get better. Their mouths get bigger and they learn to open wide. Good luck!  

[cat13]

I know you said it's tough for you to get to a LLL meeting, but have you tried contacting your local LLL leader? She might be willing to talk with you over the phone or even come by your house. Good luck!

[gemasita]

I had SOOO many problems myself early on and the painful nipples went on for months and months. Things did get much better with time though.  Some of the stuff, I don't even know why.

A few thoughts.  Have you tried nursing him while you are laying back?  It might help the flow slow down when you let down and help him get a deeper latch.  Google "laid back nursing" or "biological nursing."

Also, in the OLD Womanly Art of Breastfeeding books, they talk about stroking the baby's CHEEK, not upper lip.  It supposedly encourages a really wide open mouth as they root to the side.  I'm not sure why people don't seem to teach this "method" any more now and teach women to stroke down.  Maybe give that a try.  I had flat nipples and my son had a shallow latch (I think) and so some of it just took time for his mouth to grow.  He could nurse on my friends with smaller nipples but I was in pain for months.  But he nurses fine now at 9 months.

Low supply:  I had that too (and still do).  Could you ask your doctor about domperidone?  If he/she ok's it, many people (including me) get theirs online. 

[silvermist]

we had very similar problems w/ my first. in retrospect, i would have undressed both of, and let her find my breast and latch herself. babis don't need any help- it's instinct even at 3 months. maybe there is some youtube of this- i only saw it on a video that we watched at an lll meeting long after the problem was resolved for me. but it would have been so less stressful for my baby, had i known.

[choochootwo]

Very similar to what we experience with our son. He's now 16 months old, still breastfeeds and is very happy. I had lipstick pointed nipples and what I thought was painful let down, but my nipples were just very sore from improper latch and the initial latching was very painful. My son was VERY fussy at the breast, latching on and falling off, crying/kicking. I met with a La Leche League person and she helped me with latch. She helped me point up and back and push the nipple and breast tissue as far back as possible. Our boy was ultimately diagnosed with reflux at 11 weeks and put on Zantac. In my opinion, this is a gut imbalance. We took him of meds and put him on a probiotic and it made a tremendous difference. 

Hang in there, it gets better. 

[choochootwo]

I forgot to mention our baby is very slightly tongue-tied, with a slightly heart shaped tongue and this is also a contributing factor. Keep asking questions and keep listening to other mom's suggestions.