What does it mean when a thread is "locked"?

[seili]

Sorry, I was gone the rest of the night and noticed the "FB users....." thread about RCS/VBAC's is locked up. What causes a thread to be locked?

[seili]

Nevermind, I just read the end of the thread.

[seili]

dlm, I'm not following what you said about the elective c-section/vaginal birth study? It says that it excluded prior c-sections. The study was comparing planned c-sections (but not including prior c-sections) vs. planned vaginal birth (even if they end in a c-section). Planned vaginal birth was deemed safer, even when some of them ended in a c-section.       Yes, completely elective c-sections are considered 3x more dangerous, like I said, than a vaginal birth. Just as, right now, many home births are considered to be 2 to 3 times more dangerous (in regards to morality) than a hospital birth. Very similar risks.

Storm Bride, by reading through that thread I do feel so bad for you that you struggle with it so much. I understand how you would not like your c-sections, but you seem beyond that and just so sad about it.  Just reading you makes me want to help you so much, but I know I probably can't. But have you read the definition of 'birth'. I do not see why c-sections would not fit into that category. I really feel bad for you that you think your birth choices make you a crappy mom? Did I read that right? I don't know you, but if I did I wouldn't doubt if I'd consider you a really good mom, partially because you do analyze how everything you choose affects your children. I hope that you will be able to find peace about it all one day.

I really wish the NCB community would realize that it is okay to accept c-sections as a healthy choice sometimes; that statistics do not always show it to be some kind of terrible thing that should be avoided at all cost. I think we'd all be happier and less depressed if we could accept things yet still aim for what we think will be best for our body and our children during birth.

I hope this isn't considered out of place and in the possibly censored category again, but I missed the other thread while gone and as I'm currently reading through it, those comments by those two people really struck me.

Edited by seili - 10/26/11 at 7:29pm

[Storm Bride]

Originally Posted by seili 

Storm Bride, by reading through that thread I do feel so bad for you that you struggle with it so much. I understand how you would not like your c-sections, but you seem beyond that and just so sad about it.  Just reading you makes me want to help you so much, but I know I probably can't.

Way beyond that. I don't "not like" my c-sections. They were horrifying, traumatic, and - aside from the death of my fourth child at birth - hands down the worst experiences of my life. I'm glad I didn't know what my reproductive life was going to look like when I first started ttc, because I don't think I'd have been able to bring myself to go through it if I'd known...but I didn't, so I do have four wonderful children, despite myself.

But have you read the definition of 'birth'. I do not see why c-sections would not fit into that category.

Many times. Everyone sees it differently. I don't see why c-sections would fit into that category, but I'm glad they do for some women. To be clear, of course my children were born - I just don't believe I gave birth to them. I completely respect other women's right to consider their c-sections as giving birth. I wish other women would respect my right not to see it that way, but people seem to need to persuade me that I did, apparently in some misguided attempt to make me feel better about the whole nightmare. (The only thing - the only thing - that makes me feel better is knowing that I've had a tubal and it's finally over. I vaguely remember a me - back in '92 - who was tremendously excited about being pregnant. But, I can't relate to her very well.)

I really feel bad for you that you think your birth choices make you a crappy mom? Did I read that right? I don't know you, but if I did I wouldn't doubt if I'd consider you a really good mom, partially because you do analyze how everything you choose affects your children. I hope that you will be able to find peace about it all one day.

I made birth choices that I did not believe to be in the best interests of my children. Period. That does not, in any way, make me a good mom. If someone chooses a c-section, because they believe that's best for the baby, then they're making a very different choice than I did. I'm simply very, very weak when it comes to institutional pressure (it's actually related to my social anxiety issues, but slightly different), so I caved in to pressure to do things that weren't good for me or my kids.

I really wish the NCB community would realize that it is okay to accept c-sections as a healthy choice sometimes; that statistics do not always show it to be some kind of terrible thing that should be avoided at all cost. I think we'd all be happier and less depressed if we could accept things yet still aim for what we think will be best for our body and our children during birth.

Well, personally, I'm well aware that c-sections are sometimes a healthy choice, and aren't always a terrible thing. I obviously can't speak for the entire NCB community. In my case, they were a terrible thing - and got worse, right up until the very last one, which was a significant improvement, although it still sucked (horribly unpleasant and depressing is still better than out-and-out traumatizing). I can't comment on the "what we think will be best for our body and our children" aspect, though. I've only done that once, and I effed it up so badly that I lost my son and damaged myself badly.

[Super~Single~Mama]

Originally Posted by Storm Bride 

I made birth choices that I did not believe to be in the best interests of my children. Period. That does not, in any way, make me a good mom. If someone chooses a c-section, because they believe that's best for the baby, then they're making a very different choice than I did. I'm simply very, very weak when it comes to institutional pressure (it's actually related to my social anxiety issues, but slightly different), so I caved in to pressure to do things that weren't good for me or my kids.

I'm totally thread crashing here, but Storm Bride, I've admired you as a poster here for a LONG time (pretty much since I started posting here).  I know this is a difficult time of year for you, because little Aaron's birthday is coming up but you do not get to say that you are a bad mom b/c of your csections.  There is not a single parent on this earth that makes every single parenting choice believing that its in the best interest of their kids.  People here on MDC can tell you otherwise, and act like they only choose things that are the very best for their kids, but thats not true.  Even the mom's who claim to eat only homemade from scratch food that is 100% sugar free - I can guarantee their child has eaten (insert forbidden food here) at least once.  Parents make mistakes - during ALL phases of parenting - but those mistakes, or choices, do not make them bad parents from that day forward.  I've made some mistakes as a parent, some big ones, but I still think I'm a pretty good mom to my ds.  And you are a great mom to your kids.  Your birth choices, your c-sections, DO NOT make you a bad mom.  The every day parenting is what makes a mother - NOT the birth, not the c-section.  That was one part of your parenting journey, and while it has affected you deeply, it does not and should not define you as a mother.  You are a wonderful mother - just ask your kids - they know better than any of us would.  Ask your husband, he knows too.

Hindsight is 20/20, but we have to trust that we did the best we could within whatever limitations we had at the time.  Trust me, I know that very well (do you remember my crazy ex?  He has cost my family over $20,000 in attorney's fees - if I'd known that was going to happen I wouldn't have even told him I was pregnant, since I had moved when I found out.  Stupid me went back.  Does that make me a bad mom?  I sure as hell hope not.).  I know my situation is vastly different from yours - but please don't think you're a bad mom b/c you had c-sections.  Don't let that define you as a mother.  I know that it was traumatic, and I know that I will never understand just how traumatic.  You can recognize the part of you that is deeply affected by your c-sections, and work on healing from those c-sections, without degrading yourself as a mother to your children.  Don't do that anymore - you're a wonderful mother, and how much you love your children is obvious - even to a stranger over the internet.

[seili]

Storm Bride, without asking you put out all of your birth history and prying into your life, I can't really comment on any decisions that you made. But I do hope that will find some peace. I know that must be easy for me to say and hard for you to do, but if it is hindering your life in any way, you might only feel worse and worse as time goes on. I can't imagine losing a child; I'm sure that you do think of your child everyday. I'm so sorry that you lost your child.

To anyone else reading, the only thing I've always tried to get across is that hopefully by making educated decisions and knowing all of the statistics for the time, we will be able to make the best, safest decision for ourselves and our babies, but nothing in life is ever 100 percent.

[Storm Bride]

Originally Posted by Super~Single~Mama 

I'm totally thread crashing here, but Storm Bride, I've admired you as a poster here for a LONG time (pretty much since I started posting here).  I know this is a difficult time of year for you, because little Aaron's birthday is coming up

Thank you for this. I (obviously) don't forget about his birthday - it's actually been on my mind more than usual for the last couple of weeks - but I do think I forget how much this time of year affects my emotional equilibrium. I should probably avoid the B&B forums until at least mid-November, but I never think of it until I'm already in the thick of it. I appreciate the mention, because it connected the dots in my head...and it's always nice to know that I'm not the only one who even remembers him. It does feel like that sometimes.

but you do not get to say that you are a bad mom b/c of your csections.  There is not a single parent on this earth that makes every single parenting choice believing that its in the best interest of their kids.  People here on MDC can tell you otherwise, and act like they only choose things that are the very best for their kids, but thats not true.  Even the mom's who claim to eat only homemade from scratch food that is 100% sugar free - I can guarantee their child has eaten (insert forbidden food here) at least once.  Parents make mistakes - during ALL phases of parenting - but those mistakes, or choices, do not make them bad parents from that day forward.  I've made some mistakes as a parent, some big ones, but I still think I'm a pretty good mom to my ds.  And you are a great mom to your kids.  Your birth choices, your c-sections, DO NOT make you a bad mom.  The every day parenting is what makes a mother - NOT the birth, not the c-section.  That was one part of your parenting journey, and while it has affected you deeply, it does not and should not define you as a mother.  You are a wonderful mother - just ask your kids - they know better than any of us would.  Ask your husband, he knows too.

Hindsight is 20/20, but we have to trust that we did the best we could within whatever limitations we had at the time.  Trust me, I know that very well (do you remember my crazy ex?  He has cost my family over $20,000 in attorney's fees - if I'd known that was going to happen I wouldn't have even told him I was pregnant, since I had moved when I found out.  Stupid me went back.  Does that make me a bad mom?  I sure as hell hope not.).  I know my situation is vastly different from yours - but please don't think you're a bad mom b/c you had c-sections.  Don't let that define you as a mother.  I know that it was traumatic, and I know that I will never understand just how traumatic.  You can recognize the part of you that is deeply affected by your c-sections, and work on healing from those c-sections, without degrading yourself as a mother to your children.  Don't do that anymore - you're a wonderful mother, and how much you love your children is obvious - even to a stranger over the internet.

Thanks again. I'm not sure I really agree, but it's food for thought, at least...

[katelove]

Storm Bride I was going to post this on the other thread but I closed before I had a chance. It probably won't make much difference to you now anyway but I wonder if maybe you have a cytochrome P450 deficiency. That might explain why your pain was so hard to control. Anyway, as I said, it probably doesn't matter to you now, although it may be worth considering if you ever need pain relief for anything big in the future. And sometimes it's nice to have a reason for things even if it doesn't change the outcome.

Oh, and for what it's worth, I do not consider myself to have given birth to my child either although she was certainly born.

[Storm Bride]

Originally Posted by katelove 

Storm Bride I was going to post this on the other thread but I closed before I had a chance. It probably won't make much difference to you now anyway but I wonder if maybe you have a cytochrome P450 deficiency. That might explain why your pain was so hard to control. Anyway, as I said, it probably doesn't matter to you now, although it may be worth considering if you ever need pain relief for anything big in the future. And sometimes it's nice to have a reason for things even if it doesn't change the outcome.

I don't really think that's it. I've known a lot of women who had pain into the first several weeks after c-sections. I hadn't actually run into any who hadn't had it last that long, until I came online. I've run into it a little since, though. I've never had full pain control once my spinal has worn off, but I don't want full pain control, anyway. Anyway, I've never seen any signs that my pain is unusually hard to control - I've had fairly normal/typical results after my eye surgery, root canal, etc.

Oh, and for what it's worth, I do not consider myself to have given birth to my child either although she was certainly born.

I think I've talked to more women, overall, who feel that way about it, but there are a signifiant number in the "I gave birth" camp, as well. I think that aspect of having a c-section is very subjective.

[waluso]

Originally Posted by Storm Bride 

I don't really think that's it. I've known a lot of women who had pain into the first several weeks after c-sections. I hadn't actually run into any who hadn't had it last that long, until I came online. I've run into it a little since, though. I've never had full pain control once my spinal has worn off, but I don't want full pain control, anyway. Anyway, I've never seen any signs that my pain is unusually hard to control - I've had fairly normal/typical results after my eye surgery, root canal, etc.

I generally have a high tolerance for pain, but I had fairly signficant pain for at least 5-6 weeks after my c-section for no known reason (no complications, etc). As much as I tried to avoid painkillers, I had to take them much longer than I wanted just to be able to function.

[Super~Single~Mama]

Originally Posted by Storm Bride 

Thank you for this. I (obviously) don't forget about his birthday - it's actually been on my mind more than usual for the last couple of weeks - but I do think I forget how much this time of year affects my emotional equilibrium. I should probably avoid the B&B forums until at least mid-November, but I never think of it until I'm already in the thick of it. I appreciate the mention, because it connected the dots in my head...and it's always nice to know that I'm not the only one who even remembers him. It does feel like that sometimes.

Of course it messes with your emotional equilibrium!  It would mess with anyones!  Try though, when you start getting down on yourself, and start thinking that you are a bad mom, to remember that your emotional equilibrium isn't quite at its best right now and stop thinking it.  And of course you're thinking about his birthday, its right around the corner, and while I can't even imagine how hard it is to face every year I can definitely believe that you think about it much more when its coming up.

Thanks again. I'm not sure I really agree, but it's food for thought, at least...

Then come back and read it when you're feeling better.  And really, you can't possibly believe all the posters here who post as though they've never made a single mistake - all parents make mistakes.  All parents make a lot of them - any parent who has never made a mistake isn't parenting at all.  You ARE a good mom - you've done so much for your children, and been through so much for them, that you couldn't possibly be a bad one.