It's unfair to drag ADHD kids along in school (nothing you don't already know).

[journeymom]

According to Russel Barkley kids with adhd do not mature as fast as other kids.  A child with adhd can be, developmentally, as much as 30% "younger" than their peers.  A 15 y.o. might have the emotional skills or organizational skills or impulse control of a 10 y.o. 

This does ring true for me, based upon my own experience, and based upon observing my twelve year old son.  I think just now, his emotional maturity equals a young eleven year old. And his academic organization skills equal his peers from when they were maybe nine or ten years old.

Basically adhd kids everywhere are perpetually assigned class work that's a couple grades ahead of where they belong.  And so they're perpetually struggling, get bad grades and their esteem is beaten down.  And it's not their fault!  It's a disservice to these kids. It sucks.

Ds and I met with his core teachers bright and early this morning (meeting convened by his history teacher).  They're all concerned and encouraging and want him to do well.  At least there's no talk of laziness, like when I was his age. 

This is such a big, nebulous problem.  What's the solution? What kind of education would suit him, help him not only survive but to thrive?  I don't know, but it's not this model of education.  I'm working on getting accommodations that will help him keep his head above water. 

Thanks, I guess I just needed to get this out there to mamas who might get it. 

[SpottedFoxx]

My son is only six so I am not where you are... yet.  I am also an adult with ADHD who was told I was stupid and lazy.  It sounds like you may have been in my camp as well.   

What can we do?  My friend, you're already doing it.  You are being an advocate for your child and working with his wonderful teachers to set him up for success.  Yes, it's unfair that the coursework may be well ahead of our children.  Well, unfortunately, there is no fair in the real world.  All we can do is advocate for our kids, pray they get good, understanding teachers who will do their best to set our kids up for success.  If we don't, we'll kick and scream to get them into the right classroom.

There are private schools that specialize in working with special needs kids.  If a school is unable to meet a child's needs and the district is unable to provide a solution, then they are required by law to go outside of their district.  My brother's best friend's son is dyslexic (just like me).  He was in 4th grade and still not reading.  After fighting the school for years, the courts ruled against the district.  Their son is now in a private school that is costing the district $35,000 a year.  The child is thriving finally.  A good friend of mine's daughter has apraxia and the schools in our district really were not able to help her.  She now goes to a private school as well and they are so much happier (even with a 45 minute bus ride in each direction).

Just keep fighting the good fight.

[Emmeline II]

The "30%" rule doesn't apply to every ADHD child in precisely the same way, and it doesn't necessarily mean they are not capable of working at grade level, though they may need to do it differently/need more assistance. It sounds like he may need an IEP, is there one in place?

How Executive Functioning Affects Learning

My ds is in 2nd grade (7.5yo) so I don't know what 6th grade will be like, but currently he is doing well academically. He has a problem with the abstractness of math (which we are working on) but is making progress on his 'math facts', is a great speller, and reading at a beginning 5th grade level. Now ds doesn't do a lot of things on autopilot yet (a lot of his organization is my organization) but I think he will get there (I did) and he has the advantage of my knowing what his challenges are and having ideas on how to help, and he's had a couple of great teachers.

[raksmama]

I don't know about %, but I do agree that an IEP (Individual Education Plan) would be good. DS 13 is on one. If they are on an IEP the work load can be cut down or modified. If your Child has a DX he should be able to have one.

Edited by raksmama - 10/28/11 at 6:52am

[journeymom]

I forgot to mention the point of the meeting; his teacher convened the meeting because ds is getting a couple of Ds and an F.

Yes, I'm getting the IEP ball rolling.  I finally have all the questionnaires back from his teachers, so I can take them to his pediatrician. 
 

And there was a flier on the wall from the near-by California State University's Dept of Education.  They offer educational testing and child counseling.  Sounds like exactly what I'm looking for.  The fee for the diagnostic test is $200, though. I'll give them a call but we're in pretty bad financial shape right now.  Maybe they can work with us somehow.

Well, unfortunately, there is no fair in the real world.

You are so right.

[SpottedFoxx]

You may be better off going through your insurance and getting your own testing done.  I've never heard positive things about California schools and IEP's (sorry for the generalization).  I've even heard that many districts use a law firm that basically teaches them how to not provide services.   

I've always relied upon my doctors to do testing and diagnosing.  I'd also be careful about a regular pediatrician diagnosing and treating ADHD. Most are really not qualified to do so.  A few are but not many.  You may be better off seeing a neuro-psych or developmental pediatrician as they are more likely to have the educational background to properly diagnose and treat ADHD and will be taken a lot more seriously at the school level than a pediatrician.

[Emmeline II]

Originally Posted by journeymom 

Yes, I'm getting the IEP ball rolling.  I finally have all the questionnaires back from his teachers, so I can take them to his pediatrician. 
 

And there was a flier on the wall from the near-by California State University's Dept of Education.  They offer educational testing and child counseling.  Sounds like exactly what I'm looking for.  The fee for the diagnostic test is $200, though. I'll give them a call but we're in pretty bad financial shape right now.  Maybe they can work with us somehow.

 Though I agree a general pediatrician is usually not a good choice for "maintanence" of ADHD, it would be "handy" to have a diagnosis in hand when dealing with the school. I'd ask the University if you can make other payment arrangements, their eval would probably also be helpful in dealing with the school.

[FarmerBeth]

While you're waiting on the IEP, are there any adaptations the school is willing to make ?  A lot of kids with ADHD also have processing speed issues, so if your son has a large volume of work, he could be performing under par at things he is very capable of doing with less volume/more time.  We had a lot of success with following the same program but with either a reduction in volume or a little extra time to complete assignments.  If it's hard to stay organized and on task, things tend to take longer.

[journeymom]

Originally Posted by Emmeline II 

 Though I agree a general pediatrician is usually not a good choice for "maintanence" of ADHD, it would be "handy" to have a diagnosis in hand when dealing with the school. I'd ask the University if you can make other payment arrangements, their eval would probably also be helpful in dealing with the school.

Yeah, while I like and trust his ped very much, he isn't an educational therapist.  His contribution might consist of prescribing some kind of med, which is fine.  What I didn't get for my daughter that would have been most helpful is the professional assessment (aside from her ped) and the counseling.  So that's what I'm focusing on this time.

I talked to the University educational counseling center today, they pointed out that $200 for a complete battery of tests is quite a bit less than some other institutions charge. I don't know, I haven't compared yet, but I believe her.   They don't do 'sliding scale' payments but she said the test is actually over two visits, so we might be able to split the payment up that way.  Of course, they're booked until FEBRUARY.

Ah well, I'm just getting started.  Thank you all so much for sharing your accumulated knowledge.

Edited to add about accommodations, aside from being reassured that he will sit at the front of the class in all classes, we didn't discuss any other changes.  I'm a little sheepish to ask for them until we get the results of the pediatrician's questionnaire.

[karne]

I think you're in the thick of it right now, and you're doing a good job of advocating.  Regarding testing, here at least, it's literally thousands of dollars, and not covered by insurance.  Testing via the school is helpful, and necessary for an IEP, but they won't, and shouldn't dx ADD/ADHD.  I would definitely go to your pediatrician.  It sounds like you need a useful dx asap to start getting your ds both the relief and help he needs in school.

I also want to comment that the 30% piece doesn't ring true in my family at all.  However, proper treatment, including medication, has been absolutely key.

ETA:  I don't think most schools are really set up well to meet the needs of boys, in general.

[Emmeline II]

Originally Posted by journeymom 
I talked to the University educational counseling center today, they pointed out that $200 for a complete battery of tests is quite a bit less than some other institutions charge. I don't know, I haven't compared yet, but I believe her.

Yes, that is "inexpensive" but not particularly helpful if you don't have it. Ours was about $350; there may have been a $35 co-pay for something in there as well. And it is cheaper than getting educational testing with a private psychologist.

  Of course, they're booked until FEBRUARY.

That is typical, and why the ped would be helpful for getting an "official" diagnosis to smooth things along with the school -- when do you expect a response from the ped?

Edited by Emmeline II - 10/27/11 at 9:01pm

[journeymom]

Originally Posted by karne 

I also want to comment that the 30% piece doesn't ring true in my family at all.  However, proper treatment, including medication, has been absolutely key.

ETA:  I don't think most schools are really set up well to meet the needs of boys, in general.

Thanks for the vote of confidence, I really appreciate this.   And yes, on thinking about it more, that 30% age difference doesn't ring true with my kids either.  Perhaps it's 'up to 30%'.

No kidding, efficiency seems to be the driving motivation for the development of the public school model, not what meets kids' needs best.  

Do some medical insurance plans cover educational assessments?  I kinda figured not.  But I suppose if an MD has diagnosed adhd then, yes, it would be covered...?  I'll have to check my explanation of benefits.  

I had a busy day yesterday so I'm taking the stack of questionnaires to the ped today.   

[chiefmir]

Hi, I don't know if this will be helpful, but I wanted to share what I know (at least, its true in the state I work in, Pennsylvania).  A school often will take a doctor's note regarding a diagnosis of ADHD when setting up a 504 Service Plan.  My experience has been that many pediatrician's are qualified to make a diagnosis of relatively straightforward ADHD based on the information they get from rating scales and talking to the parent/child (which is woefully little info compared to a full assessment, IMO).  By straightforward, I mean that the diagnosis isn't at all confused by low abilty levels (like in a child with lower intellectual ability), mental health concerns (like depression, ODD, etc.), learning disabilities, or significant behavioral issues (above and beyond the kind that are often seen in undiagnosed ADHD). My husband (who is a pediatrician) will diagnose and (medically) manage what he calles the "clear and simple" cases of ADHD but referrs (to school testing, psychiatry, and/or neuropsychological testing) any that are complicated by other possible diagnoses (like above) that he does not feel qualified to differentiate between or manage completely.

As for school testing, it is true that *generally* schools don't/can't/shouldn't diagnose ADHD.  So, if g(your) child already has the diagnosis from the pediatrician and continues to struggle in school after 504 is in place, then the school would probably do their own testing just to document that the disability is affecting academic (or social) performance in school so the child can qualify for an IEP.  But, it also depends on the qualifications of the person doing the testing, so it may be worthwhile to ask. For example, I (and several other friends of mine) are doctorate level clinical psychologists and/or neuropsychologists who also happen to work in schools as their school psychologists (it is a VERY family friendly schedule!) and are definitely qualified to make the diagnosis,and do.

As for cost, I think that the price you were quoted is possibly AMAZING (as mentioned, private neuropsych is often $2500 and up) but that doesn't actually matter if it is out of range right now. Also, it would be important to make sure that the testing and possible diagnosis would acutally be something different than what the school would be able to provide.  If they also aren't qualified to make the ADHD diagnosis, than you'd probably be better off not paying, no matter how inexpensive it is, unless it also ties you into some sort of related services that they can provide following the assessment (like counseling, tutoring, etc.)

As for insurance, the issue is different for each one.  Unfortunately, in many, many cases, insurance does not cover ANY testing that is considered "educational" in any way.  So that means that they won't cover neuropsych if the question is straightforward learing/school performance.  Sometimes the MEDICAL side of the insurance (versus the behavioral health side that usually would manage psychological testing) may cover neuropsych for ADHD if there is a related medical issue that could be impacting the child (like brain injury, developmental delay diagnosis, etc.)  The best bet is to try to talk to an acutal person at the insurance company who actually understands what you are asking about.  I'd say that 80% of the time I call insurance companies to check on a potential patient's benefits, the person helping me has NO idea the difference between the benefit I'm asking about (neuropsychological evaluation) versus psychological evaluation (which can be something as simple as a1 hour interview with a therapist, and is NOT the same at all)...so be careful to ask specifically.

Sorry if that was long-winded... hope some of it might help!

[FarmerBeth]

Originally Posted by journeymom 

Thanks for the vote of confidence, I really appreciate this.   And yes, on thinking about it more, that 30% age difference doesn't ring true with my kids either.  Perhaps it's 'up to 30%'.

No kidding, efficiency seems to be the driving motivation for the development of the public school model, not what meets kids' needs best.  

Do some medical insurance plans cover educational assessments?  I kinda figured not.  But I suppose if an MD has diagnosed adhd then, yes, it would be covered...?  I'll have to check my explanation of benefits.

I had a busy day yesterday so I'm taking the stack of questionnaires to the ped today.   

My DS started in a private school, then homeschooled,testing from public school wasn't an option at the time, so actually we did use medical insurance from Blue Cross.  It fell under para practitioners and we had up to three we could use in our plan, with the maximum amount for each.  We used a clinical  psychologist, the testing fell under cognitive and psycho-educational testing, and the testing took us pretty much to the maximum in our case.  We would have had to pay extra outside of what we were covered for ti have official documentation of the assessment results. some parents I know used private insurance with kids in the public school system as well .  I think it's worth checking in with your insurance provider to know.  Asking won't hurt.

[karne]

Originally Posted by chiefmir 

Hi, I don't know if this will be helpful, but I wanted to share what I know (at least, its true in the state I work in, Pennsylvania).  A school often will take a doctor's note regarding a diagnosis of ADHD when setting up a 504 Service Plan.  My experience has been that many pediatrician's are qualified to make a diagnosis of relatively straightforward ADHD based on the information they get from rating scales and talking to the parent/child (which is woefully little info compared to a full assessment, IMO).  By straightforward, I mean that the diagnosis isn't at all confused by low abilty levels (like in a child with lower intellectual ability), mental health concerns (like depression, ODD, etc.), learning disabilities, or significant behavioral issues (above and beyond the kind that are often seen in undiagnosed ADHD). My husband (who is a pediatrician) will diagnose and (medically) manage what he calles the "clear and simple" cases of ADHD but referrs (to school testing, psychiatry, and/or neuropsychological testing) any that are complicated by other possible diagnoses (like above) that he does not feel qualified to differentiate between or manage completely.

I'm glad to read this part about the role of the pedi in managing add/adhd.  I personally find our pedi to be invaluable, and the first person I turned to with questions and when we needed support.  I never felt pushed for meds, even though that was exactly what was needed.  Yes to the full exams-absolutely, but my experience with our pediatrician was extremely helpful.  I also love that we can check in more informally about how things are going when we are there for unrelated issues.

[justmama]

Originally Posted by FarmerBeth 

While you're waiting on the IEP, are there any adaptations the school is willing to make ?  A lot of kids with ADHD also have processing speed issues, so if your son has a large volume of work, he could be performing under par at things he is very capable of doing with less volume/more time.  We had a lot of success with following the same program but with either a reduction in volume or a little extra time to complete assignments.  If it's hard to stay organized and on task, things tend to take longer.

absolutely. slow processing speed is the biggest thing that sets my ADHD daughter back in her homework.  She has a hard time keeping up in class(6th grade) because she is processing information so much slower than her peers and it results in a lot of homework because she couldnt' finish it in class.  And then she forgets her books in her locker to do the work because her inattentiveness crept up on her.  :)