How long on ED to identify food intolerances?

[Italiamom]

I'm sorry to bombard this forum.  I've got a lot of questions these days.  Sigh.

I'm wondering how long I need to maintain our elimination diet for in order to properly identify food intolerances.  Right now we are off of gluten, soy, dairy, and eggs.  I'm just wondering how long we need to abstain from each of these before trying reintroduction into the diet?  I believe I've read that dairy can take up to a month to work its way out of your body, but that could be wrong.  And what about the soy, eggs, and gluten?

Basically, if I can just avoid something for a week and then try reintroduction, rather than a whole month, I would be thrilled.  But I don't want to just do an ED for a week and reintroduce, only to have it not have been a lengthy enough amount of time for one of those to not work its way out.  If something is causing our skin/gut/behavior issues, it's important to me to know.  I had planned to remove them all for a month, and then start back in with eggs.  If I can reintroduce any one of those foods sooner than one month, it would be amazing.

I hope that was clear.  All the veggies and meat are making me delirious.

[SweetSilver]

Sometimes the difference is so dramatic you can reintroduce within a week to test, at least for the purposes of identifying an allergen or intolerance.  A celiac friend felt better in less than 2 weeks, even though she hadn't gone perfectly gluten-free at that point.  My daughter's wheat allergy was obvious when we reintroduced it after only 5 days' elimination.  It's not always so easy to spot in that short a time, though.

If you were to attempt this abbreviated ED, I would suggest you try only one food at a time.  If you don't see any clear signs then perhaps try a longer ED before coming to any conclusions.

[Italiamom]

So a month is long enough? Because we've been off of the big 4 for a week now, and no one in the family (DH, DD, or DS) is showing even a slight improvement. Sigh. I was really hoping that any of those foods might have a shorter benchmark of necessary time than 1 month

[scsigrl]

Nope, a month would be the minimum I would try. Also, we didn't figure it out till ALL DS's allergens were removed.  I did 2 dairy only ED's for 4 week and 6 weeks.  I didn't see any improvement but we were missing his other 9 allergens so it didn't work.  I know that's extremely rare to have that many but it can happen that way.  So if you are missing one of the big ones, you may not see results till that AND the others are eliminated.

[SweetSilver]

So, how did you choose these 4 foods?

[Italiamom]

Originally Posted by scsigrl 

So if you are missing one of the big ones, you may not see results till that AND the others are eliminated.

So basically, I should wait and have DH and DS tested first before we bother EDing?

We had both an IgE and an IgG panel done with an allergist when DS was 1.5, and they showed no sensitivities.  Was he just too young?  For DD, she's only 2 month old.  It had been suggested to me that any panel at this point isn't going to be accurate because she's so young.  She's obviously only eating breastmilk, which is why I'm doing this darn ED too...

I chose gluten and dairy because DH and DS have skin issues, which I've gathered are common allergens to cause skin issues, and both are also commonly associated with canker sores (NOT cold sores), which DH gets frequently.  DS is still too young for me to really know if he's getting them or not.  It also seems that avoiding soy, casein, and gluten can sometimes be beneficial for kiddos with hyperactivity issues (DS).   And we're cutting out eggs because DS used to get mild hives when eating them.  The IgE/IgG panels didn't show a sensitivity there, but I thought if he was at one time sensitive to it, then maybe DD might be sensitive to them in my diet, so the eggs went too.

If I'm doing this wrong, ANY advice is good here.  But I had no idea where to start, and removing those very common allergens seemed like a good place to do so based on my limited information about the foods most likely to cause the things we're trying to address (skin issues, mouth issues, hyperactivity, etc.).

[scsigrl]

For us, a food log was critical to narrow things down. I figured out a few things this way. I am not a huge fan of allergy testing, but for us it was the only thing that pointed out all the things we needed to start with before adding things back.  Many people who do an ED start with Top 8 because they are Top 8 for a reason.  

I am coming to the point I need to do an ED with this new baby.  I will log for a few weeks to see if that gives me a better idea where to start.  For me, I think I will start with dairy because I *think* that's when I notice DS2 getting barry and stuff.  

[SweetSilver]

It can be a bit of a guess as to where to start.  Allergy testing at 1.5 can be deceptive mainly because allergies can fade and can be added at a young age.  My daughter developed a wheat at nearly 4, 1.5 years after her first test.  (She also had new symptoms, so it wasn't a false negative.)  Dairy allergies are commonly overcome by age 5 (but not in our case.)

It is not your fault if you feel like you are doing this blindfolded.  Allergies and intolerances are so screwy and dependent on each individual that you feel a bit disoriented trying to figure all this out.  Advice, even from those of us dealing with this for years, can be almost worthless in another's problems.  Even some generally shared experiences, like testing, can be so subjective as to leave you feeling frustrated trying to find definitive information.  

As scsgirl frequently says: "as clear as mud".

[Italiamom]

Sigh.

I figured choosing foods out of the top 8 that were commonly associated with symptoms that we're dealing with might be at least *a* place to start.  I feel like I'm shooting blindfolded.  And I don't want to keep shooting if I can stop, yk?  Cutting out those foods is just miserable.  But if say, soy only needs to be removed for 2 weeks before reintroduction, then that would be great to not have to cut it out for a whole month.  Then I can move on to another food.

Part of me thinks that just living with the skin/sleep/etc. issues is easier than trying to identify what foods (if any at all) might be causing these issues.  Mostly I just want to only limit these foods for the shortest time possible.  It would make my life a whole lot more pleasurable to be able to reintroduce them.

[SweetSilver]

I think you should reintroduce and move on.  You're going about it the right way.  It absolutely makes sense to start on the Big 8.  They aren't the Big 8 for nothing, they really are the most common allergies.  But if you don't see any difference after that long, then reintroduce it, look for anything weird and move on to something else.  If that doesn't show any improvement, start in on the rest: oats, rice, corn, what-have-you.  Peas, nuts, meats, anything.  

As adults, we can feel differences in our bodies, but kids don't use words to describe their feelings, like "Hey, mom!  My tongue feels fat.  Why should it feel fat?  And I feel kinda, I don't know, icky and weird.  And my belly is doing somersaults.  It hurts!  What is up?"  No, they cry, crab, and grump their way through the experience and leave us to figure it out for them.  You are definitely not alone feeling tired, frustrated and lost.

[mytwomonkies]

If you've eliminated the top 8 and still have not seen improvements within a month or so a total elimination diet might be in order.

[SweetSilver]

Or just the next 4 on the list.  If you haven't seen an improvement, then add those foods back in before eliminating more.  I absolutely could not function on a TED.  But I had skin tests first before I started eliminating.  That was extremely helpful because wheat and dairy were negative for me, rice and oats were sky high.  Challenges helped to reinforce the validity of the test results.  

I think one reason tests aren't supposed to do well for 2mo's is that most babies are formula fed.  This exposes them mainly to dairy and corn and soy at that age.  Breastfed babies, on the other hand, have exposure to many allergens.  This is my theory, I'm not sure if it holds water.  2mo is about when my oldest, EBF, started showing signs of allergies.

[mytwomonkies]

Originally Posted by SweetSilver 

Or just the next 4 on the list.  If you haven't seen an improvement, then add those foods back in before eliminating more.  I absolutely could not function on a TED.  But I had skin tests first before I started eliminating.  That was extremely helpful because wheat and dairy were negative for me, rice and oats were sky high.  Challenges helped to reinforce the validity of the test results.  

I think one reason tests aren't supposed to do well for 2mo's is that most babies are formula fed.  This exposes them mainly to dairy and corn and soy at that age.  Breastfed babies, on the other hand, have exposure to many allergens.  This is my theory, I'm not sure if it holds water.  2mo is about when my oldest, EBF, started showing signs of allergies.

The only problem with adding foods back in before you see any improvements is that they could still be reacting to those foods it's just that you haven't eliminated all their allergens and that's why they're still reacting. In my opinion, and everyone's is different, a TED is so much easier than just jumping around to different foods. With a TED you usually see results fairly quickly and then you start adding foods back in one at a time. To me it makes it way easier to identify the culprits. Some people can function on it and some can't. I was extremely determined to do whatever it took to help my daughter, even if that meant eating lamb/rice/squash 3 meals a day for several months. We are still nursing at 26 months and we have it down pretty well now. Everyone is different, you just have to find what works for you.

[mytwomonkies]

Originally Posted by SweetSilver 

I think one reason tests aren't supposed to do well for 2mo's is that most babies are formula fed.  This exposes them mainly to dairy and corn and soy at that age.  Breastfed babies, on the other hand, have exposure to many allergens.  This is my theory, I'm not sure if it holds water.  2mo is about when my oldest, EBF, started showing signs of allergies.

This totally makes sense to me :)

[scsigrl]

Originally Posted by SweetSilver 

As scsgirl frequently says: "as clear as mud".

   That is what I say :) lol  and it's so true in our experience!

[SweetSilver]

Originally Posted by mytwomonkies 

 I was extremely determined to do whatever it took to help my daughter, even if that meant eating lamb/rice/squash 3 meals a day for several months. 

The trouble with this is, how do you figure out what to eat in your TED?  Do you test first?  Because these three particular foods would have had me feeling like crap!
 

[APToddlerMama]

It is clear as mud and does take a long time to figure out for sure.  It was about four months for our DS and I thought that was pretty quick in the grand scheme of things.  I have heard 6 weeks for casein and 6 months for gluten if you want to be sure.  Not sure about soy and eggs.  I will say we had immediate improvement with cutting dairy but then we subbed with rice milk and DS is the only person I know who has major major issues with sunflower oil which is in rice milk and just about everything else.  We also did an allergy panel on him with about 20 foods.  It turned out that he was allergic to nuts, tomatos, and soy.  I would have not guessed it until I knew.  Despite having food allergies myself, somehow I failed to notice how red and itchy his face would get when he ate tomato products.  Anyhow, it is a process, but if and when it works, it is sooooooo worth it.  It feels like torture to not be able to eat the foods you normally eat, but in time you really do start focusing on what you can eat and it doesn't seem so bad.  DS has a really great varied diet now even though he has the four actual food allergies and probably 20 more sensitivities.

Personally, I thought pulling everything at once and then adding back was easiest.  Because for instance if you pull soy one week but you're still on corn, you may not notice that soy is actually an issue because corn is still bugging you. 

A book we really liked that had four lists in it starting from least restrictive to most restrictive was called Feast Without Yeast by Bruce Semon.  Book is on Amazon.  It gave us good ideas of what to pull first. Something like 80% improve with the first list and so on.  Lots of recipes and also lists of what you can have.  DS does not have ADHD, but has major sensory issues and probably ADD as does DH.  The book is really good for those too. 

Good luck.  It is a long road.  I recall sobbing in the grocery store the first time I went looking at labels because I didn't know what we would eat. Looking back it is almost funny because we've found sooooooo many substitutions.  If you want me to pm you, I can send you a list of some meals the whole family eats, certain brands that are good, etc.  DS does not eat gluten, casein, soy, sunflower, tomatos, nuts, oranges, vinegar, malt, anything with added yeast, maple syrup, corn, chocolate, eggs, apples, bananas, grapes, avocado, any artificial colors/flavors, and probably some other things I'm forgetting. 

[scsigrl]

Originally Posted by APToddlerMama 

Personally, I thought pulling everything at once and then adding back was easiest.  Because for instance if you pull soy one week but you're still on corn, you may not notice that soy is actually an issue because corn is still bugging you. 

This is exactly why I would do a TED or testing first.  As I said, I pulled dairy twice with NO improvement because I was still on the other 8 things he reacts to. Once we did the testing at 14 months, within 3 days he was sleeping through the night, allergy eyes went away and his temperament improved like crazy!  

It's really hard, we will all give you that :(  Hand in there Mama!

[mytwomonkies]

Originally Posted by SweetSilver 

The trouble with this is, how do you figure out what to eat in your TED?  Do you test first?  Because these three particular foods would have had me feeling like crap!
 

I think these foods are least likely to cause reactions, that's not to say that there aren't people that would react to them.  If someone is doing a TED and reacts to these foods then obviously they should switch them out for a different set of foods.

Originally Posted by APToddlerMama 

Personally, I thought pulling everything at once and then adding back was easiest.  Because for instance if you pull soy one week but you're still on corn, you may not notice that soy is actually an issue because corn is still bugging you. 

This is exactly what I was trying to say, you just worded it a little better

[SweetSilver]

Originally Posted by mytwomonkies 

I think these foods are least likely to cause reactions, that's not to say that there aren't people that would react to them.  If someone is doing a TED and reacts to these foods then obviously they should switch them out for a different set of foods.

But in many people's experience, it's really not that obvious.  Unless you already have some idea that you will have trouble with the foods you choose, when can you decide that it's the foods you are consuming on the TED that are causing the trouble?  According to the experience of some, symptoms can last a month or more.  How do I figure that the rice is causing the problem and not something that I've given up?  I mean, theoretically 3 months on this diet might give you a clue, but then you'll have to do some shooting in the dark to choose your next foods, especially since you are not starting from a "normal" place.

I'm not trying to be difficult, I promise, but this can be confusing.  Would you test first?  (I did.  Now I feel better, and if I wanted to embark on a TED, I would have a clue as to where to start.)