School aged kids and getting enough sleep

[hakeber]

How do you do it?

He comes home all stressed out because it has been 3-4 hours since his last meal, and so we have a snack and then we make dinner, then homework, and bed time snack, bath, bedtime stories...

He typically doesn't get to sleep until 8pm...

The he's up at 6...

Every single morning is a fiasco.

Last weekend we offered to take him to the amusement park and he said "I don't know...it's been a tough week, mom.  I just kind of want to hang out today."

I mean what kind of a 6 yo says that in an offer of going to the amusement park?

Any tips?

[NiteNicole]

How much homework does he have?  I would let him snack and do homework at the same time, shorten the bath if there is any playing around, and read fewer stories.  It's not fun, but neither is being chronically sleep deprived.  My daughter is SO like her father, she gets behind on sleep and it just gets worse and worse till she's miserable. 

My daughter is home around 4.15, asleep by 7.15, and up by 6.30 (although she is FINALLY starting to sleep later than our alarm so I know she's still tired).  She doesn't have "real" homework yet (just general assignments - read with a parent for 20 minutes, talk about these questions, but I do make her finish up anything that comes home unfinished in her folder and that can take a while on some days).  I pretty much cut out all the dawdling in favor if getting her in bed on time.  This is a huge change for us because it's her first year in school.  Until now, we could devote lots of time to reading books and working on projects and doing nothing at all.  During the week, that's just not an option anymore.

[pianojazzgirl]

I guess you have to look at how you can shave time off either your evening or morning routines.

It looks like you would have time to do what we do: put homework between the snack and dinner.  I'm assuming from what you've written that there is time for him to play then right now (going on the assumption that he doesn't immediately start dinner right after eating his snack).  Another idea is to pack an afterschool snack in his backpack so that he can eat it on the way home from school (for ex. we carpool, so sometimes the kids eat in the car).  Also, if dinner is closer to bedtime maybe he wouldn't need the bedtime snack?  We do a big snack after school.  Dinner 2-3 hours later.  Then violin practice, then we start the bedtime routine.  We also skip the bath a lot of nights if things are getting tight time-wise.

Something else we do is to try to do as much homework as we can on the weekend to free up weekday evenings (dd gets a homework packet each friday, due the following friday).

What can you do to make the mornings faster so he could sleep in a bit longer?  Have his clothes already laid out?  Have him wear his clean clothes to bed the night before?  Eat a cold breakfast?  Lunch made the night before?  Backpack packed the night before?  I'm not sure exactly what you guys need to do in the morning, but it would be worth taking a look at ways you could get through the routine faster.  Adding 15mins of sleep in the morning and 15mins of sleep in the evening would probably make a big difference.

One other thought: bedtime here is 8pm, but last year (when dd was in 1st grade) we would usually do one 7pm night every week or so.  She just needed a "catch-up" night here and there.

[hakeber]

Originally Posted by NiteNicole 

How much homework does he have?  I would let him snack and do homework at the same time, shorten the bath if there is any playing around, and read fewer stories.  It's not fun, but neither is being chronically sleep deprived.  My daughter is SO like her father, she gets behind on sleep and it just gets worse and worse till she's miserable. 

My daughter is home around 4.15, asleep by 7.15, and up by 6.30 (although she is FINALLY starting to sleep later than our alarm so I know she's still tired).  She doesn't have "real" homework yet (just general assignments - read with a parent for 20 minutes, talk about these questions, but I do make her finish up anything that comes home unfinished in her folder and that can take a while on some days).  I pretty much cut out all the dawdling in favor if getting her in bed on time.  This is a huge change for us because it's her first year in school.  Until now, we could devote lots of time to reading books and working on projects and doing nothing at all.  During the week, that's just not an option anymore.

He has about an hour a night, which sometimes takes him 1.5-2, which I personally think is excessive and need to talk to his teacher about it.  I actually found out last night from the head of section that yr 5 (DS is in yr 1), are only allowed to have 50 minutes of homework and if it takes them longer, they are allowed to stop at 50 minutes.  Weird right?  Shouldn't homework get progressively more challenging, not less?

I have tried letting him snack and do homework, but he is so drained when he gets home, he's just a total space cadet until he eats.

I do sometimes give him dinner early from  left overs...at like 4:30 and this can mean getting him to bed at 6:30 asleep for 7...but it sort of sucks a lot that we only get to eat with him as a family at weekends...is that just life now?  I know people say that the years for being a SAHM are most important between 0-5, but I am starting to get the feeling, THIS is when I really need to be home for him, or at least on a Part time schedule. two and half hours a day is not enough with him.

 

Originally Posted by pianojazzgirl 

I guess you have to look at how you can shave time off either your evening or morning routines.

It looks like you would have time to do what we do: put homework between the snack and dinner.  I'm assuming from what you've written that there is time for him to play then right now (going on the assumption that he doesn't immediately start dinner right after eating his snack).  Another idea is to pack an afterschool snack in his backpack so that he can eat it on the way home from school (for ex. we carpool, so sometimes the kids eat in the car).  Also, if dinner is closer to bedtime maybe he wouldn't need the bedtime snack?  We do a big snack after school.  Dinner 2-3 hours later.  Then violin practice, then we start the bedtime routine.  We also skip the bath a lot of nights if things are getting tight time-wise.

Something else we do is to try to do as much homework as we can on the weekend to free up weekday evenings (dd gets a homework packet each friday, due the following friday).

What can you do to make the mornings faster so he could sleep in a bit longer?  Have his clothes already laid out?  Have him wear his clean clothes to bed the night before?  Eat a cold breakfast?  Lunch made the night before?  Backpack packed the night before?  I'm not sure exactly what you guys need to do in the morning, but it would be worth taking a look at ways you could get through the routine faster.  Adding 15mins of sleep in the morning and 15mins of sleep in the evening would probably make a big difference.

One other thought: bedtime here is 8pm, but last year (when dd was in 1st grade) we would usually do one 7pm night every week or so.  She just needed a "catch-up" night here and there.

We were packing snacks for him for afterschool but the lady on the bus won't let him eat on the bus...it's really unfair especially when it can take up to 40 minutes on the bus if the traffic is bad.  Maybe I can make a case at the next parents night.  I think that's a good idea...I was crushed when he told me she wouldn't let him eat it. 

He does usually get an hour or so the play.  He needs it and his play time is usually city building or terranium maintenance, so I feel it's quite educational in its own way, too.  They don't learn through play nearly enough for my tastes.  If I didn't work at the same school I would change him in a heartbeat but private schools are really expensive and we get a scholarship so we can send him there...Public schools are simply out of the question here.

See that friday to friday thing?  If I give an assignment that will take more than 10 minutes I have to give my Middle school students and Highschool students a full 7 school days to finish it.  DS gets sent things home on a Monday and if we don't get it done for the next day, we get a frowny face in the behavior record.  It's pretty unrealistic in my opinion.  We try to do the same, get it done on Sundays, but he's getting told off a lot in school, and that's not much fun either.

The mornings are usually as fast as we can make them (20 minutes, maybe?)  we do as much as we can the night before.  I might be able to get him dressed the night before...I wonder...I'll try that! It's pretty cold here at night and rather warm during the day (tropical high altitude region) so his uniform might not keep him warm enough at night, but I guess we could always buy more blankets or a space heater.

So do your kids also hate going to school (he loves BEING at school --especially on science days) and beg for days off, or is my kid just a high needs sleeper? He was sleeping through the night at 4 months old and sleeping 12-14 hours a night by two.  Given the right conditions, a totally dark room and soft white noise, he can still sleep, like his dad, for half the day or more.  Maybe we need to skip the snack and go straight to dinner.

Thanks ladies!

[Imakcerka]

Wait he's in kinder?  Do they get naps?  DD1 was allowed to sleep the entire afternoon if she wanted.  After lunch she was done and her kinder teacher asked me if we would be okay with her finishing up the day with a nap rather than free play.  I'd look into his afternoon schedule

[hakeber]

No, he's in the equivalent of the US first grade.  They call it transition, but the syllabus is identical to the US first grade.

But he hasn't reallly taken afternoon naps since he was about 2.

He's 6.5 yo. 

[Imakcerka]

I don't know just seems like too much to expect out of even that age.  DD2 is the same age and in 1st grade.  She'd be in bed at 5 if I let her.  I'm really not sure what else you can do for him. 

[LuckyMommaToo]

That seems like a CRAZY amount of homework. It's rare that DS (age 8 in second) spends more than 20 minutes on homework. Have you checked in with other parents in his grade? Does it take all the kids that long? Personally I would check with the school handbook or principal about what the limit is and just stop there every night and write the teacher a note. If that means frowny faces, so be it. Good luck.

-e

[Mummoth]

That's too much homework. DD is in grade 2 and has 15 -20 minutes, DS is in grade 4 and has about 30 minutes each night. DD is pretty tired after school, too... it really drains them!

Eating on the bus is really not a great idea, the driver already has to pay attention to the road while supervising too many kids. If DS were to choke, another kid would have to notice and  alert the driver, and the driver would have to find a safe spot to stop before she could help DS. DH is a school bus driver (and this was shocking information to me) and they are not required to have first aid training unless it's a special needs bus, at least where we are. Maybe the teacher could let him have a juice box or something at the end of the day? You might be able to get a Dr.s note, so she can't say no (there was a boy with diabetes in my class as a child & he always had a snack in the afternoon)

Going outside after his snack/before supper if it's at all possible might help him feel better... it seems counter-intuitive to expend even more energy, but kids are more brain-tired than body-tired after school. A bit more horsing around might help perk him up.

[One_Girl]

My dd sometimes refuses going somewhere really fun because she wants a day to just stay at home (something that used to be rare).  I have found that if I make one day for just relaxing and not going anywhere in the car we are both a lot more relaxed and going places other times during the week, like school, isn't a big battle.

I think you also need to check in with the teacher about his homework requirement.  If he is taking an hour and a half for first grade level work he may need either a modified assignment or an assessment to see whether there is a piece of knowledge he missed learning that would really help him do his work faster.  Our school district only allows teachers to assign ten minutes per grade level starting with first grade. 

Have you asked the teacher about allowing him to eat a snack during his last recess period?  This wasn't typically allowed at my dd's first school, but her teacher made an exception for her because she noticed that my dd really needed a snack to keep her focused in the afternoon so she let her stay in for a few minutes to eat a quick snack. 

[pianojazzgirl]

Wow - what a crazy amount of homework!  That's awful.  :(  My dd's homework usually takes more like 15 mins, sometimes more but often less.  She's in 2nd grade.  I'd be scheduling a meeting with the teacher asap.  I think that much homework every night is the biggest problem here. 

Re. the after school snack - could he possibly eat something before getting on the bus?  I know at dd's school if the kids get packed up and out the door in a timely manner they usually have 5-10 mins in the schoolyard before the bus leaves.

[~cassie]

My 6 yr old is in bed at 630 in order to be up at 6am.    It sucks but is necessary.    Instead of snack can you just do early dinner and then homework, bath, light evening snack and bed?  That seems like a lot of homework.   My first grader has 20 mins and then I make him read 2 books. 

[hakeber]

Originally Posted by LuckyMommaToo 

That seems like a CRAZY amount of homework. It's rare that DS (age 8 in second) spends more than 20 minutes on homework. Have you checked in with other parents in his grade? Does it take all the kids that long? Personally I would check with the school handbook or principal about what the limit is and just stop there every night and write the teacher a note. If that means frowny faces, so be it. Good luck.

-e

We have a meeting lined up this week and it's on my list.

Originally Posted by Mummoth 

That's too much homework. DD is in grade 2 and has 15 -20 minutes, DS is in grade 4 and has about 30 minutes each night. DD is pretty tired after school, too... it really drains them!

Eating on the bus is really not a great idea, the driver already has to pay attention to the road while supervising too many kids. If DS were to choke, another kid would have to notice and  alert the driver, and the driver would have to find a safe spot to stop before she could help DS. DH is a school bus driver (and this was shocking information to me) and they are not required to have first aid training unless it's a special needs bus, at least where we are. Maybe the teacher could let him have a juice box or something at the end of the day? You might be able to get a Dr.s note, so she can't say no (there was a boy with diabetes in my class as a child & he always had a snack in the afternoon)

Going outside after his snack/before supper if it's at all possible might help him feel better... it seems counter-intuitive to expend even more energy, but kids are more brain-tired than body-tired after school. A bit more horsing around might help perk him up.

I am coming around to that opinion on the homework issue.  I don't want to be a whiner or ask for special treatment, but really...it's not right.

I would agree with the choking issue, but there is a special assistant trained in First aid on each bus to ride with the kids, and it's not a typical school bus.  It's more like a chartered bus, like the kind you take long distance.  The reason they gave is they don't want a mess, which is fair, but hard for the little ones.

He does run around some, and because he gets home before his dad and I our nanny usually takes him and DD to the park anytime it isn't raining for a quick romp before we get home, so he gets snack in the park, but usually it has been so long since his last recess he is quite irritable. 

They are brain tired...he is so cute...Whenever I push him to do the next line, question, sentence, he's always saying "Let me think.  People have to think before they make decisions, mommy, Everyone knows that!"  I just want to hug him to bits.  It's so harsh when you need a moment to think and time refuses to comply with your need for time out.  I am exactly the same way and it really breaks my heart.

Originally Posted by One_Girl 

My dd sometimes refuses going somewhere really fun because she wants a day to just stay at home (something that used to be rare).  I have found that if I make one day for just relaxing and not going anywhere in the car we are both a lot more relaxed and going places other times during the week, like school, isn't a big battle.

I think you also need to check in with the teacher about his homework requirement.  If he is taking an hour and a half for first grade level work he may need either a modified assignment or an assessment to see whether there is a piece of knowledge he missed learning that would really help him do his work faster.  Our school district only allows teachers to assign ten minutes per grade level starting with first grade. 

Have you asked the teacher about allowing him to eat a snack during his last recess period?  This wasn't typically allowed at my dd's first school, but her teacher made an exception for her because she noticed that my dd really needed a snack to keep her focused in the afternoon so she let her stay in for a few minutes to eat a quick snack. 

I don't know...it's writing four sentences a night with a list of unit words, with colored illustrations, three days a cycle running (the school is on a seven day cycle rather than a five day week).  He could do them all one night, or six one night and six the other, but by the third day twelve sentences need to be written, then they have a Math's folder with 15-20 problems once a cycle (which they give one day and expect back the next) and then 2 pages in the handwriting booklet once a cycle (repeating the letters 25 times per page), then a fine motor skills worksheet twice a cycle (this takes about 10 minutes, so that's no a big deal and seems age appropriate). and once every two-four cycles he has a big project with a presentation due, with a poster and an oral presentation. and once a month he has a maths calendar with one problem a day (including weekend days) for every day of the month.  They also have 2 library books they need to read each cycle and write a one-to two sentence review about each one in a library journal (he actually really likes this part, and he has a whole cycle to complete them.)

Having just typed that all out...I cannot believe it has taken me this long to realize that really does seem crazy!

I am pretty sure the other parents feel it is a lot too, based on the few conversations I have had but I don't have much contact with them.  From what I can tell they mostly let them start and then finish it for them and call it a day.  I just think that's really absurd.  However, lot of parents here in Colombia, especially in private schools, think the more homework they have, the better the school must be.  It's sort of a cultural thing.

I have to be careful because I am a head of department in the secondary section of the school and I don't want to upset my co-workers or be the superior gringo who knows best, but I am glad to hear other parents here say it's crazy because I was perusing some teacher conversation boards from the UK and there were grade 1 teachers saying they give about 1 hour of homework every night.  I just think 7:30 to 2:30 with only an hour and a half of non-classroom time, should be plenty of time to meet their teaching objectives. 

But I don't want this to turn into a rant about homework.  I plan to discuss it with his teacher and head of section this week, because the head of upper primary (his year is considered the last year of pre-school here)  said that would be too much for a fifth grader, let alone a 1st grader.  So I need to be clear on the policy and enforce it.  I also want to discuss the deadlines.  Giving work one day and expecting it to be finished the next is unfair and teaches poor time management skills, IMO.  It's also pretty unfair to kids who live in homes that do not speak the mother tongue of the school (in this case we speak English at home, but the MT of the school is Spanish)  I have only a mild inkling of the maths concepts they are "teaching" him in class in ENGLISH let alone in Spanish...some of the problems are analogies in Spanish or complex word problems in Spanish...like give us a chance to help him!  I don't even remeber doing anything but addition and subtraction in first grade, and the maths calendar has geometry, patterns, logical analogies, and things like, if I have four people and need to make a team of three how many different combinations can I make...I am pretty sure I didn't even touch that sort of math until I was in grade 7...and how are they teaching him how to do that math if the folder shows only addition or subtraction.  I am just   I feel like it is turning him off math, and he used to LOVE math!  Same for language.  Last year he was making up stories and writing sentences on his own without problem, now he just is so overhwlemed he hates it....

This has been good.  Thanks.  It's helping flesh out my case for my meeting this week.

I think though, we may have to also just get him to bed earlier...maybe ask our nanny to make a double portion of lunch so he can have dinner right away and get to bed sooner.

All I really want is to curl up with him after a hard day and watch a movie or read a billion stories, or make up stories with him and draw pictures or bake cookies...the LAST thing I want is to rush through an evening without just some hanging out with my little peanut.    

[kayleesmom]

i try and get them down around 630-7pm but it is not easy.