Mothering › Forums › Pregnancy and Birth › Fertility › Trying To Conceive › 31 years old, 10 months breast cancer free, miscarriage in August, when the HECK do I ovulate!!
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

31 years old, 10 months breast cancer free, miscarriage in August, when the HECK do I ovulate!!

post #1 of 115
Thread Starter 

Lord help me with this stuff!! I just started charting this past cycle. I don't know much of what I'm doing really, but from what I can tell I DID ovulate. I have very regular periods (typically cycle is 30-31 days) My hubby and I started trying in June of this year and I got pregnant that first cycle. Then I had a miscarriage at 6 weeks in August. We started trying again last month, and no go so far. Can someone help me to understand if I'm doing something wrong? Clearly we're probably not having enough sex... but of course I'm dumb and was trying to plan it with ovulation.... to no avail so far. Sighhhh. Here is my chart:

 

 

 

With the breast cancer, no I didn't have chemo or radiation. Just 3 crappy surgeries and I'm not on any medication whatsoever. Haven't been since March. I only take a prenatal vitamin and fish oil. The only think I've found odd and don't quite understand is... before the miscarriage I was using OPK's and they would be positive for one morning and one night (or vice versa) and now they're positive for like 3 days in a row (for the past two months anyway). Hmph.

 

post #2 of 115

I tried clicking the link and got the message "Chart Not Updated." :(

 

Anyway, if your cycle is always 30-31 days, then you are ovulating (TYPICALLY) on cycle day 15 or 16, because the luteal phase is normally 14 days long.

 

That being said, my luteal phase is only 10 days long, so we're all different. You'll know if you see that jump in your temperature (the last low temperature is the day you ovulated) and fertile cervical mucus (it dries up pretty fast after ovulation).

post #3 of 115

Welcome to MDC!!  wave.gif

 

I'm so sorry for your loss!  Please post in the Pregnancy Loss forum if you feel like you need more support!  hug2.gif

 

I'm not sure why it can't find your chart, but the link doesn't work for me either.  Trying sharing your homepage instead or saving the image and uploading it for us to see.

 

The average LP is 12-14 days so if your average cycle is 30-31 days long then we might assume you tend to O around CD 16-18. But like Lindsay said, we're all different.  My LP is also 10 days long on average and my cycles are typically 28-30 days long.  When you O can vary greatly based on what is happening in your life: illness, injury, travel, diet changes, exercise changes, and hormonal events like m/c.  Human conception is surprisingly inefficient and getting pregnant on your first cycle of trying is not common.  Even for women in their mid-twenties, the average length of time to conceive is around 6 months and it goes up from there.  I would not assume you're doing anything wrong- there is much luck involved with the process as many things need to line up just right- not only ovulation and sex.  Since this is your first cycle charting you don't yet know your average O day and average length LP.  You also may not feel confident yet identifying your CF.  I wrote a post for another member a while back about charting.  You may know a lot of it already, but you might find some of the information helpful.  I'll come back and post it.

 

As for OPK's... well, I don't put much stock in them as they are often unreliable for a lot of women.  Some women never get positives, others positives for days on end, and others get random positives (like well after confirmed O).  Then there is the issue of interpretation.  The strips can leave you guessing if the test is truly darker than the control and which is your peak day.  The +/- kind (or smilie) don't need interpretation, but you can easily miss your peak day.  And lastly they cannot confirm O even if they are working well for you- just that you geared up to O.  They can be a nice addition to a chart, but often they are simply confusing and expensive.

 

I'd be happy to take a look at your chart when you figure out how to post it!

post #4 of 115

Start as soon as you can since the first day of red blood is cycle day 1.  Pick up a copy of Taking Charge of Your Fertility by Toni Weschler at the library (or buy it).  You don't need to read it cover to cover to get started, but it really is an excellent resource.

 

You can pick up a basal body thermometer (BBT) at your local drug store.  Some are better than others.  I prefer ones that take longer than 30 seconds (they seem more accurate to me) and can hold two temperatures in memory (this is especially handy when you wake up, temp, and go back to sleep- you can look at and record the temp later).  The Walgreens thermometer gets generally bad reviews.  BD gets good reviews. 

 

When temping you want to focus on a few things: taking it at the same time each morning (within 30 minutes); taking it after a solid block of sleep (3 hours is usually recommended); and making sure that you don't get out of bed, sit up, drink water, or fall asleep before or while temping.  So basically you just wake up, roll over, temp, and go back to sleep or get up. 

 

Some women are really sensitive to changes in sleep patterns or ambient temperature (like if your room is hot one morning and not the next or you wake up snuggled under a warm blanket and the next are out of the covers).  But other women find that they can see their pattern despite numerous night wakings, not getting a 3 hour block of sleep prior to temping, or environmental changes.  Other things that can affect temp- pretty much the same things that can delay ovulation: travel, stress, diet changes, injury, illness, and strenuous exercise.

 

Next, cervical fluid (CF) is something you can observe throughout the day- whenever you feel it, whenever you see it (while wiping, on your panties), etc.  Here is my general guide to CF:

 

Dry: you'll feel dry all day and there is nothing on your panties

Sticky: you'll generally feel dry and there will be a bit of staining- usually yellow- on your panties.  It might be a bit crumbly or clumpy.

Creamy: generally you'll feel a little wet, lotiony in texture, could be slippery when you wipe, often it will stand up on your panties

Wet: you'll feel wet and your panties will likely be wet- maybe even soak through, may look like skim milk (I rarely get this)

Eggwhite: you might actually feel it slipping out of you throughout the day and it might fall out of you while using the bathroom, stretchy- it may stretch from you to the TP for several inches- and usually clear or yellow tinted, often quite profuse

 

Temp and CF are the two basic fertility signs you need to chart.  There are other signs you can record like cervical position (CP), but it's not necessary unless your temps and CF are not showing a clear pattern.

 

So what you're going to see is a group of low temps from the start of AF, which is cycle day 1 (CD 1) until the day after ovulation (O) when you should see a spike in temp or steady climb to a higher group of temps.  The days between O and AF are called your luteal phase (LP).  Generally it is said that you need at least 10 days to sustain a pregnancy.  The average length is 12-14 days.  Your LP will not vary much- usually just by one or two days cycle to cycle.  But your O day could vary considerably.  So when you see O on your chart you can then predict when AF should show based on your average LP length.  If you go 3 days past your longest LP length then that is an excellent sign of pregnancy.  If you get 18 high temps after O that is 99% accurate- just like an HPT.

 

Likewise your CF will go from dry just after AF to sticky, to creamy, to EW as O approaches.  You may or may not go through all the different types of CF prior to O or you could skip from dry to creamy or dry to EW.  You might have many days of creamy and one or two of EW or you might have 3 or 4 days of EW with hardly any creamy.  It all depends on the woman and that particular cycle.  But after O you will dry up.  It could be instantaneous- like the day of the spike you're dry.  Or it could decrease slower- EW to creamy to stick to dry.  But usually you will dry up within a few days and then may or may not experience a few more days of creamy or even wet/EW later in your LP, just prior to AF.

 

Anyway, that should get you started!  Post if you have questions and use www.fertilityfriend.com to share your chart!  Good luck!

post #5 of 115
Thread Starter 

Okay, try this:

 

[url=http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/35f26d/]My Ovulation Chart[/url]

post #6 of 115
Thread Starter 

Okay, try the link again. I hadn't added my chart. Whoops! I definitely charted my egg white CM. So as you can see from my chart, I had egg white CM from the 13-15th. When do you ovulate after that?

 

Last cycle (the one right before this chart) I had spotting (very very slight. It was basically CM tinged with pink/brown) midway through when I thought I ovulated and when I should've gotten my period. That never EVER happens to me. So naturally, I thought it was umplantation bleeding. Wasn't, obviously. That was just very odd for me and confusing.

 

I know location of your cervix is important too, but I'm totallyyyy uncomfortable doing that. I know it's sort of ridiculous because it's my body... but I really feel like I have NO clue what I'm doing in that arena. Haha.

 

As for the OPK's... when I say I tested positive... I mean it was as dark or darker than the control line. I've played with them throughout my cycle a bit, so I knew when it was actually positive or gearing up to be positive. 

 

Lord this is all overwhelming! Haha. Thanks ladies. I'm going to read your posts more thoroughly now. = )

post #7 of 115

Yes, you definitely ovulated- a very clear biphasic pattern!  O was either on CD 15 or 16, but without CF marked on CD 16 it's hard to know.  I'd lean toward CD 15.  That gives you a 13-14 day LP, BUT you cannot count the days you spotted as part of your fertile LP.   Spotting prior to AF is a sign of low progesterone and if your progesterone is decreasing as you approach AF it can make sustaining a pregnancy difficult, causing repeated chemical pregnancies.  With the spotting your LP is only 9-10 days long and it is generally agreed that you need at least 10 days to sustain a pregnancy.  So it would be my advice to do two things to increase your chances next cycle.  One, start supplementing with vitamin B6 (50-100mg) to attempt to increase your LP and two, DTD a little more frequently.  You timed it well this cycle so you absolutely had a chance, but you can increase your chances by getting in a few more days during your fertile period.  So I would suggest DTD every other day starting on CD 10 or 11 and every day that you have wet or EW CF until three days past the thermal shift.  As for CP, it can be helpful when your chart is a bit ambiguous, but your chart is not ambiguous, so I wouldn't worry about that. Good luck!

post #8 of 115
Thread Starter 

Thanks, Jaimee!!! Now where I have spotting on my chart... I don't know if it was actually considered spotting. I just usually don't have anything in between whatsoever (that I've ever noticed, at least). But it was the lightest pink color you can imagine mixed with my CM. I would have never noticed if I wasn't looking at the toilet paper. It wasn't enough to stain my undies or anything and it wouldn't be enough at all to have to wear a panty liner, but it was the slightest tinge that I noticed when looking at the toilet paper so I figured I should jot it down. Do you think that is still low progesterone?

 

Also... I happened to randomly get a fever on Friday the 14th (and I did feel actually sick... I left work early that day) and it went away by that Saturday morning andddd then I walked in the Avon Walk for Breast Cancer that same weekend (which was 26.2 miles) so I did have a totally random month for myself during when I should've been ovulating. I know that all could obviously throw my ovulation off. I do work out, but the most I ever walk at a time is 8 miles... and I did 26 that weekend!

 

Also, I do already take a prenatal multivitamin with 15 mg of B6 in it, should I be taking more? What does this actually do, and what is it for? I am super paranoid about my having the MC and it having to do with my hormones (which is what caused my breast cancer) ... so I was wondering about my progesesterone levels and if they were okay. I'm really not sure what my OB/GYN and Oncologist would even have me do if it was too low because I'm not supposed to take any type of hormone because it would increase my chances of having breast cancer again, and lord knows we don't want that! Haha. I'm sure they would come up with something modified for me, but I was really hoping that my hormones would just level themselves out. I was on the birth control pill for about 10 years straight (off for 4 years now, and using only condoms in the 4 years when I wasn't TTC). I really wish I knew why I had the MC because that would help me now!

post #9 of 115
Thread Starter 

Oh, and PS... my egg white CM was marked on day 13-15 of my cycle. Not the 16th... so I'm assuming that means I probably ovulated on cycle day 15? That's when I was thinking I did... but with my random fever and walking all that distance... I was very unsure!!

post #10 of 115

Well, are you sure it was tinged pink and not yellowish? When it's so faint I know it can be hard to tell exactly what you're seeing and yellow would not be strange.  It's hard to say if you are dealing with low progesterone or not, you would need more charts with a similar spotting pattern to make a better assessment.  But you can see that your temps dip as AF approaches- again a general sign of decreasing progesterone.  You could always have your levels tested.  Upping your vitamin B6 shouldn't be a problem as far as I know, but definitely run it by your care providers!  I don't know the exact mechanism for how it works and it doesn't work for everyone, but it does work for enough women that it's commonly recommended to elongate your LP.  

 

Wow you walked a marathon!  Good for you!!  Typically strenuous exercise raises your temp a bit and/or delays O, but clearly you're in good enough shape that it did not affect your temps!  I also don't see an elevated temp on CD 14 when you said you had a fever? 

 

Again I'm so sorry about your m/c.  The vast majority of m/c's are for unknown reasons, but many are from chromosomal abnormalities.  And m/c's are unfortunately not uncommon so until a woman has repeat m/c's care providers don't consider it abnormal.

 

Another thing to keep in mind is that not all cycles have equal fertility.  Some will be more fertile than others, so catching those more fertile cycles is part of the luck portion of TTC.

post #11 of 115
Thread Starter 

You could probably describe it as pinkish yellow (and my CM normally is a little more yellow before my period). But it definitely had a tinge of pink in it. If I wasn't so busy TTC, I probably would have never noticed. See, this is what is hard to me about the possible low progesterone... because I've been paying close attention to all of this stuff since this past April... and I have never ever had anyyy type of "spotting" in between except for this month and last month (both after the MC, and those were the only times that I ever remember in the past yearsss of writing down when I got my period). My cycle was on average 30-31 days... the past 2 cycles after the MC have been 29 days, however. Not abnormal for me as it does vary a little... but they have been on the shorter side for me since the MC. (I was just happy to get my period again so quickly after. I had the MC on 8/1... got my period on 9/1, 9/30, 10/29). I don't know if this has to do with anything either but... I've never really had heavy periods (happy about that!) and usually I have a brown discharge/spotting right before my period starts (usually like the day before)... these past few cycles, it's been a bit of discharge/spotting, then my period a few hours later or very quickly after first noticing the discharge/spotting. I really only BLEED for 2 or 3 days. They rest isn't just what I would consider discharge/spotting where I'd need a panty liner. Like I got my period on Saturday and tonight.. I don't need to use more than a pantyliner. I guess I don't know what's really "normal" in that department. Wow. That was just a lotttt of info about me. Haha.

 

In reading about vitamin b6 now... I really think I could be deficient in that a bit (which is funny, because I saw a lot of articles related to breast cancer in conjunction with that!) and now that I'm thinking and reading on it... I think my Mom is too!! Thanks for that info, I'm telling her to look into that tomorrow am!

 

As for my temperature on CD 14. I check my temps in the am around 7 (and on the weekends around 9 which I know is a no-no), so that is what I charted for that day. When I came home from work, I took a nap since I didn't feel good then took my temperature because I felt like I had one around 6 pm and it was 99.9 Not sure if I was stressing myself out about my walk or had a little virus... I didn't vomit or anything, just really didn't feel good... and by the next morning I felt absolutely fine. Very odd!

 

And thank you for the congrats on my walk. It was a great weekend! Would've been MORE great if I was cooking up a baby, of course. Haha. 

post #12 of 115
Thread Starter 

Also... not that this has to do with anything... but last month before my period I was a raging lunatic and eat everything in site (my poor hubs!) and this month... I felt totally fine. Not even bloated at all?? (very unlike last month) I don't get this stuff!!

post #13 of 115

I know this is probably frustrating to hear, but really the only thing you can do is keep charting and observing as you are doing to figure out what's happening to the best of your ability.  Unless, of course, you're interested in getting your hormone levels actually tested.  Otherwise, I would simply say the variation you're experiencing in spotting, moods, cycle length, etc. are most likely related to hormonal fluctuations associated with the m/c, your marathon walk, cancer recovery, etc.  It's just really hard to tell exactly what is causing what, but your body may simply need a bit more time to regulate and it is possible that when you push yourself right now (like with the marathon walk) that this get a little out of whack.  If your progesterone was lower this cycle that could explain the lack of PMS prior to your period as well since it is the higher levels of progesterone that cause those symptoms toward the end of your LP.

 

I would try to take your temp around the same time every day.  So if during the week it's 7am, just set an alarm on the weekend, temp, and go back to sleep for a few more hours.  I assume your thermometer has a memory?  That way you can mark the temp when you get up and not even worry about marking it at 7am.

 

Any sort of spotting for a day(s) prior to full flow is not considered normal.  So if you get just a bit of pink or brown mixed in with your CF that is spotting.  "Normal" is getting full flow shortly after you spot any signs of blood.  So you might get a spot in the morning and then full flow starts a few hours later, that's not spotting as full flow came right after.  But the most normal is simply starting to bleed full flow.  The gradual increase in flow from barely noticeable spotting, to spotting, to full flow is indicative of low progesterone.   Now, since you weren't charting prior to this past cycle you don't know what your LP length was.  It is entirely possible that even though you got AF back right away and in what appeared to be the correct time frame, you may have had delayed O and your LP may have been much shorter than usual, which worked out to the same number of cycle days.  If your LP was shorter after your m/c and is just now elongating again, then it is not at all surprising to see some pre-AF spotting.  That's how the body regulates.  Next cycle you may have less days of spotting or no spotting at all.  I might suggest during this time that you don't push it too hard with the exercise to help your body along.  Progesterone is stored in fat and if you are pretty slender already AND are exercising fairly strenuously then that could absolutely affect your progesterone levels.

post #14 of 115
Thread Starter 

Very intereresting!! All of this!  I'm definitely not over weight, but I'm not "skinny" either. I'm 5'9" and 155 lbs. I work out about 3x a week and eating pretty healthy (withhh the occasional cheesecake slice when out to dinner. Hehe.)

 

I've read with the OPK strips that if it's postive for a few days in a row (which it has been the past 2 cycles and never was previous to that) could mean your body was gearing up to O, and then for whatever reason (ilness, stress, whatever) your body fails to release the egg, and then tries again right away with an overlap in the LH surge. So if that IS true, that would make sense with you saying " It is entirely possible that even though you got AF back right away and in what appeared to be the correct time frame, you may have had delayed O and your LP may have been much shorter than usual, which worked out to the same number of cycle days."

 

I'm going to call my Dr. anyway because I had suspicions of low progesterone (ahem... I have the lowest libido on the planet and I often get heinous headaches... no other symptoms really than those two)... wondering if I should just go ahead and start the B6 now anyway.

post #15 of 115

That certainly could have been what happened with your OPK's or they just weren't working right.  Who knows!  I'll be curious to hear what your doctor says about your hormone levels.

post #16 of 115
Thread Starter 

Well, I talked to my Dr. yesterday (she's actually a midwife) and she said she's never heard of using B6 for that... just for nausea in pregnancy. Hmph. I told her if she has some free time to look that up cause I've seen it all overrr the internet. Anyway, she said she's going to test my hormones the 3rd day of my period next cycle. She seems to think my body is still trying to regulate itself, but I'm really not sure. I did start taking 50 mg each of B6 and B12 regardless. Can't hurt! She also told me to call my Oncologist and talk with her in case my progesterone IS low, and to see what route we would go then (since I'm not even allowed to ever take the birth control pill again).

post #17 of 115

Never heard of it?  That's crazy to me.  Not only is it all over the internet, but it's also in all the books that talk about how nutrition is linked to fertility.  Hmm....  Anyway, if you don't see a change next cycle, I would increase it to 75 or 100mg.

 

It's good you're getting your progesterone levels tested, but keep in mind that the typical doctor will likely test you once and this is not a very good picture of what is happening.  To really know, levels should be checked several times throughout your cycle as progesterone spikes after O and that's what you really care about.  You could casually ask at the appointment if you could get tested again after O or what the protocol typically is.

 

 

post #18 of 115
Thread Starter 

I kinda thought the same thing. Um, how have you not heard of this?? Once I started researching it, it's everywhereeeeee.

 

My MW will definitely be okay with me testing my hormones out the wazoo. She knows it's a concern for me because of the breast cancer, so I wouldn't feel weird asking her at all. But thanks for that info. So being that I'm at CD 7, do you think I should call her to ask if I can test my hormones this cycle after I ovulate? For the progesterone test during day 3 of my period, she just left me a lab slip after talking on the phone with her for a while yesterday... I didn't go in for an appt.

post #19 of 115

Hmm... I really don't have experience with the test itself to know if it only makes sense to have all the levels tested within a single cycle as opposed to two different ones.  I also don't know what the optimum days are for testing.  But I think that the information could be easily found online and probably in this forum if you post separately asking that question.  I know some naturopaths that use a saliva test that you do at home so you can test every day or every couple days so you can see the whole pattern: down, up, down.

post #20 of 115
Thread Starter 

Interesting. I wanted to do a saliva test after I was cleared of the breast cancer just to see how my hormones were. Good point. Gonna do some research on that now too. Any ideas where would be a good place to post that question about optimum testing days? Clearly, I'm new to this whole forum thing. Lol.

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Trying To Conceive
Mothering › Forums › Pregnancy and Birth › Fertility › Trying To Conceive › 31 years old, 10 months breast cancer free, miscarriage in August, when the HECK do I ovulate!!