31 years old, 10 months breast cancer free, miscarriage in August, when the HECK do I ovulate!! - Page 5

[Jaimee]

I believe how you birth is extremely important.  It's really down played in our culture, but your birth experience has profound effects on your emotional and physical health as well as that of your baby.  It is paramount that you know your options and explore the pros and cons of them before making a decision.  I agree with you that a good care provider is also an important factor, but not the only one!  I would highly encourage you to keep your mind open about birth options and know that it's okay to change your mind as you go along.  I switched providers at 38 weeks with my second pregnancy!  So many first time moms look back at their first birth experience and wish it was different.  Don't let that be you!  Now, I'm not saying a hospital birth is wrong... no, not at all.  It is right for many women.  But for a LOT of women it is not at all right and they didn't realize it until afterward b/c they felt that homebirth or a birth center was unsafe. If you'd like more information about homebirth or birth centers, I have a lot of stats I can share with you as well as my own experiences (my first was a birth center water birth, my second was nearly unassisted at home, and my third was a home water birth).

I am against frequent u/s and most prenatal testing.  I don't feel like we know the full effects of u/s on the fetus and there really isn't a good reason for frequent u/s with a normal pregnancy.  I think there are totally valid reasons for u/s when things are amiss like troublesome symptoms, emotional health, multiples, unsure dating, etc.  I had one u/s with my first- the anatomy scan and it was the best part of my pregnancy, seriously.  It was amazing to see her in there and learn that she was a girl.  I needed that after months of m/s.  With my second and third I had an early u/s b/c I was unsure of my dates for several reasons.  I think that getting the due date correct is a very important thing to avoid worse interventions down the road (like induction).  I also opted for the anatomy scan with the latter two pregnancies for different reasons.  With my second I felt it was important to find out if we were having a boy so that dh and I could thoroughly discuss circumcision and come to a decision (another thing to think about!).  With my third, and now this may seem silly, but I felt really strongly that it would be sad to have u/s pics of my first two and not my third.  I didn't want to start the whole not caring about/not doing as many things for my poor third baby just b/c he was my third.  So my final thought on u/s is "in moderation."

With prenatal testing, I am firmly against most of it b/c I think that it leads to more emotional turmoil than it helps.  If you know that you would not get an amnio or CVS even if you found out there was a chance that something was wrong from the quad screen or NT scan results then why get those tests done?  The false positive rate for the quad screen is pretty high (this is usually done around 14 weeks while the NT is done around 12 weeks.  CVS is done a bit earlier than amnio, which is usually done around 16 weeks).  I had a friend that tested positive for trisomy 18 which is a fatal chromosomal disorder.  So she went ahead and got the amnio and then had to wait the excruciating few weeks to get the results back... negative of course.  The anatomy scan seems better to me b/c they can see things- it's not just bloodwork.  But that's just my opinion.  Others would say the anatomy scan is pretty bad b/c of the length of exposure to the u/s waves.  After the 20 week sono there is the gestational diabetes test (I decline... it has a 15% false positive rate), anemia (I get), and GBS (I decline- I would decline antibiotics anyway).   But for some that actually did discover something was wrong, they were glad they knew ahead of time so that they could make good decisions about where to birth and get support and advice for dealing with the issue afterward.  Others were glad that they didn't know ahead of time.  Much has to do with your own/family genetic health and your beliefs about how any of these issues should be treated.

After all the prenatal testing, then you have to decide about newborn testing, shots, vaccinations, etc.  All of these things have some valid points on both sides for different reasons and situations and require some careful thought on the part of the parents.  I think that it's really helpful to hear opinions from both sides from a variety of people.  That's what the DDC's are usually good for!  But if your group just isn't cutting it, you can search the threads in the "I'm Pregnant" forum and post your own questions.  But one thing I'm very certain of: do NOT just follow blindly what your OB practice usually does or what everyone you know did.  Educate yourself, know your options, and make decisions for yourself! 

[ericaf]

Agreed! Especially with the last part. I had wanted to do a waterbirth originally, but now I feel I would just like to labor in the tub. I think having cancer has awoken me to a lot of things, so how I used to want a MW and a waterbirth (in a birthing center) I now feel more comfortable with an OB (although, I would like one who isn't a meds pusher and possibly even more MW-minded if that makes sense)  but I think because I was SUCH a random statistic with the breast cancer (erm. Zero family history, and no risk factors)... I just want to go with how I feel more safe. So do the NT scans come back positive a lot too? I feel like it's so hard being a first time Mom and pushing for things because everyone likes to look at you like "you don't get it" or you're just naive. I really just kind of consider myself in the middle of things. I'm definitely not Mrs. Crunchy Granola... but I'm definitely also against C-sections and all the meds used. Hate, hate, hate it. Hell, after my mastectomy... I took their pain meds for two days and couldn't stand it anymore and just used Tylenol. Everyone thought I was crazy. I like to err on the side of more natural, but sometimes it's just really really hard. Like I have breast implants now. I freaking HATE that I have them. They look great and natural and "normal", I just wish I didn't have to have them in there... but having zero there wasn't an option to me. I guess I like to go with the flow, but in my own way. If that's not a total oxymoron.

[Jaimee]

My understanding is that the NT scan is another one of these things that can show a possible problem, but not confirm one.  So if they see something in the scan, they are going to offer you an amnio.  I'm not sure of the false positive rates of the scan, but this is definitely something you could research and/or ask around on here about!

While I cannot personally relate to being a random statistic, I can definitely understand where you're coming from.  Maybe a free standing birth center would be a good middle ground for your middle ground philosophies?  Does NJ have free standing birth centers?  The one I birthed at with my first was across the street from a hospital and all the mw's at the birth center had privileges at the hospital so if a transfer was necessary everything was all set up ahead of time and continuity of care was good.

[ericaf]

Soooo, after much thought and discussion with my DH... we cancelled the NT scan. Especially because I would never get the CVS or amnio, there really was just no point to me. And I don't like that I would be having 2 u/s's in one week, that's what really jump started this for me. 

As for the free standing birth center, there definitely isn't one close to me... but the hospital I'm currently planning on going to, is about 45 minutes away and I believe there is a birthing center down there. But what happens if you like your Dr?? Then what? Also, my Dr works out of two hospitals. She said one primarily, and that's where she likes most... but the other hospital (and the hospital I originally wanted to be at because I had all my breast surgeries, scans, appts, everything there and I just really like that hospital and the people) but she told me she has rights there, but basically as a MW. I don't understand that, or how that's possible or works?

[Jaimee]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ericaf 

As for the free standing birth center, there definitely isn't one close to me... but the hospital I'm currently planning on going to, is about 45 minutes away and I believe there is a birthing center down there.

What constitutes not close?  More than 2 hours?  And when you say there is a birthing center down there do you mean in the hospital?  Or outside it?  People tend to call the more modern birthing rooms in a hospital a birth center.  And it's true they may have tubs to labor in and may even let you birth in the tubs (ask about this for sure!) but if they are in the hospital, they are still subject to the rules of the hospital... no eating, possibly required IV, induction guidelines, etc.

she told me she has rights there, but basically as a MW. I don't understand that, or how that's possible or works?

I would definitely get this clarified so you can make an informed choice.  It's possible that she is allowed to attend an uncomplicated birth at the one hospital, but would not be able to be your surgeon if you needed a c-section.  Something like that...

It's just my very best advice to keep your mind open, to explore your options, and to not be afraid to change your mind based on what makes you feel most comfortable and what you think gives you the best chance to have the type of birth you want.  It can be difficult to envision the birth so early in the pregnancy so you may find yourself clarifying what it is that you truly want much farther down the road.  For me, my mind started to turn toward birth (instead of focusing so much on the pregnancy) around 32ish weeks.  So you've got lots of time to figure this all out.  There is nothing wrong with seeing this doctor that you like for a good chunk of the pregnancy and switching to a birth center or a hospital midwife later on.  Sure it's nice to have the same care provider your entire pregnancy, but it's not required and ultimately what is important is choosing the right environment to birth in.

[rebeccajm]

Originally Posted by Jaimee 

Quote:

It's just my very best advice to keep your mind open, to explore your options, and to not be afraid to change your mind based on what makes you feel most comfortable and what you think gives you the best chance to have the type of birth you want.  It can be difficult to envision the birth so early in the pregnancy so you may find yourself clarifying what it is that you truly want much farther down the road.  For me, my mind started to turn toward birth (instead of focusing so much on the pregnancy) around 32ish weeks.  So you've got lots of time to figure this all out.  There is nothing wrong with seeing this doctor that you like for a good chunk of the pregnancy and switching to a birth center or a hospital midwife later on.  Sure it's nice to have the same care provider your entire pregnancy, but it's not required and ultimately what is important is choosing the right environment to birth in.

Hi!  I'm chiming in here with some questions for Jaimee per Erica's referral!

It's funny you said that about 32 weeks.  At exactly 32 weeks with my youngest, I decided I wanted a midwife and a doula.  I switched from an all-OB practice to a OB/midwife rotating practice and prayed that a midwife would end up delivering my baby.  I had a successful hospital VBAC with, not only a midwife but my favorite midwife with lots of prayer and major intervention by God.  I guess it never entered my mind that I could have that kind of birth and that my baby and I deserved it until that 32-week mark.

Soooo, my questions...

I posted this a few days ago on another thread and would love your input....

"I had a miscarriage last month.  I now suspect low progesterone, because I am 33 and was breastfeeding at the time.  I spotted for a few days before my period the month before my conception that led to miscarriage.  That was the first time that had ever happened to me.  I thought I had been pregnant that month but never got a positive HPT.  It never occurred to me that my hormones might be off.

Oddly enough, when I was threatening miscarriage, 8 vials of blood were drawn from me.  But they never checked my progesterone.   So I have no lab confirmation that it was/is low.

I have been lightly spotting for about 24 hours now, and it is possible that I could be pregnant again. According to my ovulation symptoms, I am about 12 dpo today.  I purchased some natural progesterone cream at my favorite health food store today.  Would it do my body any harm to use it if I am not pg or if I do not have low progesterone?"

It did end up being my period, or maybe a chemical pregnancy.  At any rate I am not pregnant but TTC.

I have been taking a prenatal and b-complex vitamin since my miscarriage.  And this about breastfeeding...

"No on the breastfeeding. I pretty much cut him off when I was threatening miscarriage. He only nursed at night and once in awhile if he hurt himself or something during the day. I did nurse him one night about 2 weeks after the miscarriage, kind of a "one more last time" sort of thing.  He still asks for mommy milk. :( And I am still lactating.  I know this because I try squeezing a little out every once in awhile to see.  Maybe I just need to give it a little more time to dry up before attempting again.  Honestly, I figured it would have already dried up.  At least I don't have problems lactating.. count your blessings, right?"

I JUST started charting again this morning.  I want to see what happens to my temp after ovulation.  I'm not sure if the spotting is related to TTC or low progesterone.

Sorry for all the info packed into one post.  I don't mean to hijack, but I read all the advice you gave Erica and learned a lot!

Thank you!

[Jaimee]

Rebecca, I'm so sorry for your loss!  If you feel the need for more support, please do not hesitate to post in the "Pregnancy Loss" forum.  Those women have BTDT and can really relate.

Just so you are aware, while breastfeeding does suppress progesterone, breastfeeding had not been linked to miscarriage in studies.  Usually what happens is chemical pregnancies, but not m/c at 7 weeks.  If you still desire to nurse your LO I would encourage you to do so. 

The spotting prior to AF is unlikely due to a chemical pregnancy, but low progesterone.  It is likely that you are still regulating.  During this time, you can have less fertile cycles where you spot and have shorter LP's and then more fertile cycles were you do not spot, spot less, or have longer LP's.  This is where some luck is necessary to catch one of those more fertile cycles.  My recommendation is to do exactly what you mentioned: start temping to get a clear picture of when you are Oing and how long your LP is.  I would not recommend waiting to temp once you're in your LP. I would highly suggest temping the entire cycle or at the very least as soon as you see fertile CF.  I say this b/c it is important to note that while you obviously do have a good idea about when you're Oing, you may not know the exact day.  Ovulation pains and symptoms can show up before, during, or after O.  It's necessary to pinpoint O to know how long your LP truly is.

In the meantime, I personally would not jump to NPC, but would up your B6 intake to 100mg and see how that works for a few cycles while you're charting.  Good luck and post if you have more questions!

[rebeccajm]

Originally Posted by Jaimee 

Rebecca, I'm so sorry for your loss!  If you feel the need for more support, please do not hesitate to post in the "Pregnancy Loss" forum.  Those women have BTDT and can really relate.

Just so you are aware, while breastfeeding does suppress progesterone, breastfeeding had not been linked to miscarriage in studies.  Usually what happens is chemical pregnancies, but not m/c at 7 weeks.  If you still desire to nurse your LO I would encourage you to do so. 

The spotting prior to AF is unlikely due to a chemical pregnancy, but low progesterone.  It is likely that you are still regulating.  During this time, you can have less fertile cycles where you spot and have shorter LP's and then more fertile cycles were you do not spot, spot less, or have longer LP's.  This is where some luck is necessary to catch one of those more fertile cycles.  My recommendation is to do exactly what you mentioned: start temping to get a clear picture of when you are Oing and how long your LP is.  I would not recommend waiting to temp once you're in your LP. I would highly suggest temping the entire cycle or at the very least as soon as you see fertile CF.  I say this b/c it is important to note that while you obviously do have a good idea about when you're Oing, you may not know the exact day.  Ovulation pains and symptoms can show up before, during, or after O.  It's necessary to pinpoint O to know how long your LP truly is.

In the meantime, I personally would not jump to NPC, but would up your B6 intake to 100mg and see how that works for a few cycles while you're charting.  Good luck and post if you have more questions!

Thank you for your reply, Jaimee!

I posted during and after my m/c on the loss forum, and it definitely helped!  It also helped that THREE people close to me had had miscarriages in the three months prior to mine.  In fact, my sister had one exactly one month before mine.  Hers was much harder on her, I think.  It helped her to be able to talk to me about mine.  So I have definitely had RL support, though that's not something you want to have in common.  And prior to all those miscarriages, it has been years since someone close to me has had one...

As for breastfeeding, I am now comfortable with our decision.  And he is fine!  Yes, we could have gone on nursing at night for a few more months, but I am perfectly okay with this.  He was never a clingy or emotional baby or toddler and is handling it very well.  I'm starting to think the nursing was more for me. ;)  The idea that bf may suppress progesterone further solidifies my decision.  I don't believe it caused my m/c, but there is a chance it is contributing to my spotting issues, so I think stopping is the first step to TTC in my case.  This was not an issue at all when I conceived him, but I understand age can have something to do with it as well.

Thank you for your ideas on charting.  I am on CD 2 now, so we'll see how this month goes!  I'm willing to wait for a good cycle, as I waited a year for my first BFP!

I ordered some 25 mg b-6.  I think I will start taking the prenatals, b-complex, and one 25 mg b-6 at three separate times during the day for a total of 80 mg and see how that goes.

I'll try to update as much as I can.  Thanks again!!!

[Jaimee]

Originally Posted by rebeccajm 

The idea that bf may suppress progesterone further solidifies my decision.  I don't believe it caused my m/c, but there is a chance it is contributing to my spotting issues, so I think stopping is the first step to TTC in my case.  This was not an issue at all when I conceived him, but I understand age can have something to do with it as well.

Certainly possible!  After my first it took until 2 years pp when my dd started to STTN and cut down on nursing during the day that I finally regulated to fertile length LP's.  After my second, I conceived on my second pp cycle after the first cycle had only had a 4 day LP!!  Some women have no issues conceiving while nursing around the clock (like me with my third), others have to cut down on nursing and yet others have to wean completely to regain full fertility.  And, like in my case, it can vary pregnancy to pregnancy since many different factors are involved.  You just never know!  As for age, I don't know much about it, but it's my guess that the spotting due to age would be a menopausal thing.  At 33 I would doubt that's what is happening unless super early menopause runs in your family.

Keep us posted!  I'll be very interested to see your chart around O and after the cycle is complete (unless you get a BFP, of course!)
 

[ericaf]

Oh yey!!! I just noticed you did end up writing on here, Rebecca. Yippee! Told you Jaimee helped me a lot, glad you found some answers to your BF questions.

[rebeccajm]

http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/57e9e

Just wanted to come back and share my current chart.  Sorry I'm just now getting back.  I have been taking the supplements I mentioned every day, plus spirulina and chlorella.  For my last cycle, I did try the NPC but it made my face break out.  I think the supplements were enough on their own, and I pushed it.  This month, I stuck with the prenatals, B-6, and algae. It seems like my temp after ovulation creeped up slower than it "should" but I'm happy with this cycle so far.

Wish me luck! 

Edited by rebeccajm - 4/23/12 at 7:54pm

[ericaf]

I dunno, Rebecca... that chart looks pretty good to me!! The cycle I got pregnant was a little different for me temp wise in that it slowlyyyyyyyyyy crept up (see here: http://www.fertilityfriend.com/ttc/index.php?d=2011-12-24 hopefully that link works for my December chart) but I kinda just had a feeling I was preggo cause it was definitely different than normal for me!

Maybe Jaimee can weigh in on the supplements. I've only used the B6 and B12 (and still do!), but I don't know anything about spirulina, chlorella or algae... and when I was throwing around the idea of NPC, I ended up getting pregnant then anyway. Figures.

[rebeccajm]

Thanks for your reply!  I started feeling different yesterday, and that's actually what reminded me to come post again.  Then my temp was up this morning...it's never 98.8!  I'm trying to be cautious, but I can't wait to see what it does and whether AF comes!  I hope this is our month!

Spirulina and chlorella are super foods, both dietary algaes.  Chlorella can have a detox effect, and I have read that it's not necessarily a good idea to start taking after you are pregnant.  But it's okay to take if you have already been taking it.  I take half the recommended dosages from the bottles, mainly to supplement my iron and also to take advantage of the other benefits of it.  Here's some information on them.  http://www.antioxidants-for-health-and-longevity.com/chlorella-and-spirulina.html

Oh, and I wasn't able to view your chart, but I'd love to!  When you're looking at your chart, there should be a clickable box about halfway down the page that says "share".  On my screen, there is a button that says "print" right above it.  Just click "share" then you can cut and paste your chart's unique web page from any of those boxes that come up.  You'll have to delete all the extra code that shows up.  Maybe looking at my link will help you figure it out?

Thanks so much!

[rebeccajm]

Oh, and on my chart, you'll see I had high temps that slowly dropped during my AF.  I think that was all that extra progesterone leaving my system.

[ericaf]

Mannn. I was just trying to get December's chart to come up for you so you didn't have to scroll back. Here is the link for my regular chart:

http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/35f26d

I've heard of all those goodies you're taking, I'm just not familiar with them for myself. My friend lovessssss her algae. I watch her drink that every morning at work. Haha. Your temp still looks high today which is great! I have a good feeling for you this month... I went to visit my cousin who just had her 2nd little girl yesterday. When I saw that little tiny girl, I thought "Oh my GOD, that's going to be me" Hahahaha... like I forgot there is a REAL baby in my belly. Hah! Good thing I have about 4 months left to prepare my brain. I think sometimes I get so wrapped up in the excitement and happiness that I forget a real baby is coming out! Oooofa!

[rebeccajm]

Wow, your chart looks great!  You must be sooo excited about your first little one!  You'll be a great mom! :)

[ericaf]

Thanks! But what I noted from the chart I got preggo with is my temps were definitely different than the months before. It was a slow steady staircase climb in temp, then it just stayed up at 98.4. My "normal" high temp after ovulation was 98.2 So even before I took the pregnancy test, I had a pretty good feeling I was pregnant. Just food for thought with your chart!

[rebeccajm]

I POAS today (I KNOW, it's early!) and I thought I saw a faint shadow of a positive.  It was a dollar store test, which I have used tons of before.  I have never seen anything AT ALL on them before unless I was pregnant.  Even so, I thought it was my imagination, so I tossed it.  Tonight, out of curiosity, I fished it out of the trash and looked at it.  It is dry, of course, but it is definitely there!  And it's not an vap line, it is purple, like the control line!  I'm to stay cautious, because it is still early... plus I had a stressful day and felt weepy... just hoping that if something is going on in there, it will stick this time!  :)

[rebeccajm]

Here it is!  

[ericaf]

IIIIIIIII totally see something there. Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!! I think I got my first faint BFP at 11 DPO as well, and by 13 DPO there was def no squinting... line was there. I'm so excited for you!!!!