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Our Daily Bread - Page 5

post #81 of 120

Oh good! Please let us know if it helps at all. I just made WW pizza dough yesterday and wondered if I could have sifted the flour and just sprinkled the bran over the top of the sauce or something?

 

Good luck!

post #82 of 120

Well, the raisin bread was... can you say 'unqualified disaster'? It was a mess! lol.gif

 

The dough was WAY too sticky and I don't think I did the fold-and-stretch thing right. It had none of the surface tension necessary to getting a good rise - it didn't even look like a loaf, just like a kind of wettish scone dough plopped into the bowl. I baked it anyway, hoping magic would happen in the oven, but nope. For some reason, though the searing-hot-Dutch-oven trick worked beautifully for my last loaf, this time it just burned the loaf to a crisp. Which is sort of what you'd expect from chucking a loaf in at 230C for 30 minutes... but why was it fine last time?

 

I cut the resulting sorry mess open just to see if there was at least a lovely open crumb inside, proving I'd done something right - but nope. It was sodden and dank and underbaked. I pitched it out the back door and hastily made some coconut-orange chocolate chunk cookies for supper instead - which went down a treat, fortunately.

 

So, yeah. Don't do what I did. :p

 

Nothing daunted, I have ciabatta dough - ciabatta gloop, more precisely - rising as we speak, from this recipe. The only thing I've changed so far is to autolyse the flour and water overnight, because a few commenters said the flavour wasn't very developed due to the quickness of the recipe. It's only about 4-5 hours all up. So hopefully this will give it a better depth of flavour. I'm more worried about the texture, though - if I can make a really holey open-crumb bread I'll be as pleased as Punch. And my husband will love me more. :p He adores ciabatta.

 

mamasaiall: I usually use white flour for pizza dough. I'm not sure the bran would be good on toppings. Maybe you could just toss the bran back into the flour bin? You'd still have a slightly healthier dough than with white flour, but a better texture. Every whole-wheat pizza dough I tried in the past was kind of gluggy and heavy and dank, so I'm a big fan of white dough rolled as thin as humanly possible these days. Sometimes I do a stuffed crust with mozzarella, and sesame seeds and rock salt sprinkled over the stuffed edge, too. That's yummy.

post #83 of 120

Holey crumb, Batman! It worked!

 

 

 

If anything it's probably too holey, but do you think I'm gonna complain about that?

 

Also, OVEN SPRING. Look at this. The one on the left is about to go in the oven. That's how much they rise.

 

 

I am very happy and can't stop eating it. And my darling son just picked up an entire loaf (the recipe makes four) and bit into the side. Sigh.

post #84 of 120
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamasaia11 View Post

One suggestion I read in Michale Pollen's newest book was to sift your whole wheat flour first, reserving the larger bits of the grain that get left in the fine sieve and then rolling your dough in them right before the last rise, so that they just coat the outside. This keeps those "sharper" pieces of the grain out of the rising process and they don't shred your gluten strands. This makes for a much less dense bread. He was doing a long rise sour dough, but it was 100% WW.

 

Which book? Have I missed a new one?

post #85 of 120

Inspired by my success, I'm now itching to make Hokkaido Milk Bread. Doesn't it look fantastically soft and squishy and luscious? I sent DH out to buy some milk powder especially for the purpose. :) I won't do it plain, I'll put some kind of yummy filling in it - I think it might be nice with minimal raisins and pink coconut icing on top, like a Boston bun.

 

It uses tangzhong - a roux made of flour and milk or water - which is supposed to give it a really silky texture. It's meant to be a good method for hamburger buns or any other fluffy, 'supermarkety' kind of soft bread. A bit odd to go from trying to make a rustic-as-heck holey ciabatta to trying to replicate feathery bland supermarket bread! But it does look yummy...

 

Also, I gave a loaf of my ciabatta to a friend today. She said she'd tried to make it once, but the recipe must have been wrong because the dough was really wet. Ha! I said I'd send her the recipe I used. It really was the bizarrest dough I've ever seen - like a mass of marshmallowy bubbles - but it worked!

post #86 of 120

 kitchensqueen- Cooked , Michael Pollan's newest book, came out near the end of April. And since I was only a couple weeks postpartum I had plenty of time to read, but I've had no time to bake since reading it :)

 

Smokering- That is some beautiful ciabatta! Well done!! I wish I had more time to bake right now. I really want to do the dutch oven thing, Pollan does that for his bread recipe too, and apparently it gives his WW sourdough a great crust and crumb. I'm also fan of stuffed crust, mozzarella sticks cut from the big block, not string cheese, for me it just doesn't melt the same. I've usually put garlic salt inside the crust, never dressed the outside, but I will have to try that next time.

I sometimes do all WW for pizza crust, sometimes using white whole wheat if I have it, or part WW and white, or all white, depending on what I'm going for or who I'm cooking for. The white whole wheat and a little white flour is my favorite. I give it a little extra rising time, sometimes overnight in the fridge if I can swing it. I also have an Electrolux Assistent mixer that I bought used off of ebay a few years ago and I absolutely LOVE it for the way it handles WW doughs. I just beats them into submission and really makes them lighter and silkier than I can manage by hand or w/ the KitchenAid stand mixer.

post #87 of 120

I need to try white whole wheat! I've heard good things about it, just not sure where to get it round here. Something that's healthy like regular whole wheat but closer in texture to white sounds ideal.

 

Does Pollan recommend preheating the Dutch oven? Apparently you can do it either way and it makes almost no difference. After the major burning of my raisin loaf I'm wondering if a cold Dutch oven would be safer (but then, my first loaf was fine! Why?) - but putting cold cast iron into a 250C oven seems like it might stress the enamel.

 

The ciabatta is all gone. :p It made four loaves - small loaves, to be sure, and mostly air - and we gave one away, but between the four of us we managed to finish the other three in half a day. Oops.

 

I made the tangzhong for the Hokkaido bread last night. Will time it to be ready around tomorrow lunchtime - I have a friend visiting at 2PM, and then we're dropping the kids off at Gran's in the evening so we can go see a movie, and I can give the second loaf to them. Otherwise I'd really have no excuse for making the stuff.

post #88 of 120
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamasaia11 View Post

 kitchensqueen- Cooked , Michael Pollan's newest book, came out near the end of April. And since I was only a couple weeks postpartum I had plenty of time to read, but I've had no time to bake since reading it :)

 

I did miss one then! I need to see if the library has it... 

post #89 of 120

The Hokkaido bread was a success! I added raisins, baked it as squooshed-together buns in a loaf tin and a roasting pan, and iced with pink coconutty buttery icing. The crumb was indeed silky and soft and tasty. I recommend it. :)

 

A friend just had her baby (finally, 13 days late!), so I have an excuse to make more bread. Muahaha. And I need to make pizza dough for tomorrow night too. I'll go start autolysing! I think it really does make a difference to the handleability of slack dough.

post #90 of 120

I've been reading through all the posts in this thread and loving it.  I used to bake more regularly, but fell out of the habit.  With fall coming and the super hot weather we've had this summer (hopefully) almost over I'm going to start again.  I used to bake wheat bread each week for sandwiches as well as muffins and quick breads.  I want to get back into baking our sandwich bread regularly again as well as trying my hand at burger and sub rolls.  And I am going to venture into sourdough this fall as well. 

 

The one thing I've never been successful with is pizza dough.  I love homemade pizza, but can never get the dough right.  I've given up for a while and buying dough from a local pizza place to bake my pizzas at home.  I am determined to get it right one of these days.

post #91 of 120

Well, I made my pizza dough runnier than usual and left out the olive oil. I prefer my original version, but DH said he liked the newer version better because it's crispier. It wasn't too hard to do - I wet my hands with olive oil and just sort of spread it out on baking paper. Easier than rolling it out, really, but I couldn't do the stuffed crust. Not sure which recipe I'll go with in future.

 

And I had another disaster. I tried making a slack WW dough with the Michael Pollan rolling-in-the-bran method. Nope. My dough was just too runny. So much for the whole 'it'll turn out OK in the oven' thing. It did not. Gummy and weird. As I discovered after giving one of the loaves to a friend. :p Slack dough is haaaaaaaaard. *whines* It did have a nice holey crumb - well, gummy and weird, but with big holes - but the loaves were very flat, because the dough just slumped across the bottom of the Dutch oven. It's frustrating - I really want to master the technique and get yummy rustic loaves already!

 

So thus far my new bread adventures have comprised two failures, two successes (three if you count my regular bread recipe in the Dutch oven) and one mixed opinion. Hmph.

 

Mum really loved the Hokkaido bread, though! Raved about it, and she's not given to raving. I'm going to make hamburger buns later this week using the tangzhong method and an enriched dough - basically Hokkaido bread with less sugar and a cup of cornmeal instead of some of the flour. My normal hamburger buns are pretty good, but it would be fun to get them even softer.

post #92 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smokering View Post

And I had another disaster. I tried making a slack WW dough with the Michael Pollan rolling-in-the-bran method. Nope. My dough was just too runny. So much for the whole 'it'll turn out OK in the oven' thing. It did not. Gummy and weird. As I discovered after giving one of the loaves to a friend. :p Slack dough is haaaaaaaaard. *whines* It did have a nice holey crumb - well, gummy and weird, but with big holes - but the loaves were very flat, because the dough just slumped across the bottom of the Dutch oven. It's frustrating - I really want to master the technique and get yummy rustic loaves already!

 

 

 

What size is your dutch oven? I'm not familiar with Pollan's recipe. The Lahey No Knead bread is a very loose, wet, runny dough (3 cups flour 1/4 tsp. yeast, 1 and 1/4 tsp salt, 1 and 5/8 cups water and that's it). I can't really handle it, other than to slop it onto the parchment paper and into the dutch oven. Lahey's recipe suggests a 6 to 8 qt. pot, but I always use a 3 or 4 qt. pot to get a nice, high round loaf. I find the larger pot always produces a loaf that is too flat, at least with the No Knead recipe. 

 

I know you produced a beautiful round loaf before but I think you were using your traditional recipe (knead/proof/repeat etc.) with typical amounts of flour/yeast etc. If your slack dough from Pollan doesn't have the same yeast/kneading etc. as a typical recipe, maybe it also needs a smaller pot to help with the rise/oven spring. 

post #93 of 120

Yeah, it was a big Dutch oven. When you say to use a smaller one, do you mean essentially using it like a loaf pan - the dough completely covering the bottom and rising up the sides? Or is there something more magical about it, like the concentrated steam producing a better oven spring? Any chance you could post a photo of one of your typical loaves?

 

And yeah, my pretty round loaf was a traditional non-artisan recipe. I'm almost tempted to go back to it, but I WANT the holey crumb and the better flavour of artisan loaves!

 

I made Jeffrey Hamelman's Rustic Bread from the Fresh Loaf site yesterday. It was a slack dough, but not quite as slack as the Lahey no-knead bread. I'd looked up a bunch of videos on slack dough, and did my best - lots of folding and stretching with resting between, using oil rather than flour to prevent sticking without messing up hydration, and pre-shaping the loaves with a short bench rest before the final shaping.

 

I still had to use flour for the final shaping, and I couldn't get my boule to be a taut round ball - it went flattish. I shaped the other loaf into a batard, which was also flat. I hoped for magical oven spring, but I think I overproofed them? When I slashed them before baking they seemed overproofed.

 

Anyway, the results aren't bad - I'm eating a slice right now and it has a really yummy, chewy crumb, a good crust and a nice flavour (due to a decent amount of salt plus the preferment, I think). It's just the flatness that irritates me! The guy who posted the recipe on The Fresh Loaf showed photos of his attempts, which were nice and round; and he specifically mentioned that this was the first slack dough he'd managed to get high loaves out of. Grrr.

 

I'll make it again, simply because of the yumminess. Next time I'll try a retarded ferment in the fridge; that's supposed to be good for forming stronger gluten bonds. I added a bit of vital wheat gluten to the last batch to compensate for the WW flour (it's mostly white, maybe 2/3-1/3) - perhaps I should add a bit more next time?

 

I also want to try a batch of 'savoury' Hokkaido with mixed grains in it. Perhaps I can replicate those uber-light 'wholegrain' loaves from the supermarket.

post #94 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smokering View Post

Yeah, it was a big Dutch oven. When you say to use a smaller one, do you mean essentially using it like a loaf pan - the dough completely covering the bottom and rising up the sides? Or is there something more magical about it, like the concentrated steam producing a better oven spring? Any chance you could post a photo of one of your typical loaves?

 

 

 

Maybe both? Mostly, I think the soft wet dough benefits from some external support and climbs up the sides so it doesn't just puddle and spread out and come out like a big flatbread. 

 

I have 2 pots that I use. One is this oval casserole dish with a lid. It's 4 qts. The dough doesn't completely cover the bottom lengthwise but it does from side-to-side at the mid-point of the dish. 

The other is this 4 1/2 qt. round doufeu. The dough does cover the bottom. BTW, I only bought this pot because I found it on sale for an amazing price and couldn't resist. It's turned out to be very useful. 

 

I don't have a photo, sorry, but I'll take one the next time I make it and post. 

 

 

That Hokkaido breads sounds delicious. 

post #95 of 120

I use this one from Lodge, which I love because the lid is also a skillet! In my small kitchen, dual-purpose cookware is always a winner.

 

If I were to get a larger one, I'm coveting on oblong Le Creuset roaster, like what ollyoxenfree has... So jealous! They sometimes have them at my local Winners (I think it's called TJ Maxx in the States? Not sure if there's a Kiwi equivalent) for cheap, or at least cheaper than other places, because there's a defect in the colour of the glaze or something else that won't affect its actual use.

 

Smokering, you've got me reading all about Hokkaido bread now... Fantastic. I want to make a savoury version with bits of green onion in it, like the buns I buy in Chinatown.

post #96 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by granite View Post

I use this one from Lodge, which I love because the lid is also a skillet! In my small kitchen, dual-purpose cookware is always a winner.

 

If I were to get a larger one, I'm coveting on oblong Le Creuset roaster, like what ollyoxenfree has... So jealous! They sometimes have them at my local Winners (I think it's called TJ Maxx in the States? Not sure if there's a Kiwi equivalent) for cheap, or at least cheaper than other places, because there's a defect in the colour of the glaze or something else that won't affect its actual use.

 

Smokering, you've got me reading all about Hokkaido bread now... Fantastic. I want to make a savoury version with bits of green onion in it, like the buns I buy in Chinatown.

 

I love my Lodge cast iron skillets. I have a medium (8 inch, maybe?) and a large (12 inch). I bet that covered pot is awesome. It reminds me of my grandmother's cast iron rice pot. It's almost 100 years old and still fantastic.  

 

The oval casserole is stoneware, not enameled cast iron, so it's much less expensive than the other LeCreuset pots. I found it at another amazing sale price. It's not as good as the enameled cast iron, but it does the job. I have an enameled cast iron large Dutch Oven that I use a lot in the winter for stews, risotto, braised lamb shanks and so on.  I once read a professional chef who admitted that she searched flea markets, out-of-the-way antique shops and yard sales for her collection of Le Creuset. It's such long-lasting, tough stuff, she could often find terrific bargains.  

post #97 of 120

Hmm, OK. I have two pots that might work - a small, flattish Lodge and a small Le Creuset Dutch oven (really just a small saucepan with two handles - it came inside the big Dutch oven I use for stock). They'd both be too shallow to use with the lids on, but maybe I could do something complicated - put the small saucepan on a pizza stone and cover it with a larger upside-down Dutch oven. Do you think that'd work? You'd still get the steam. I used the pizza stone covered with the upside-down oval casserole for baking my last batch, and it was unwieldy but doable.

 

We got our Le Creusets years ago, before we got married, when we were buying stuff for the house and could afford such things. :) The big oval cast iron casserole I just bought was on deep discount - only $70! It's the store brand of a popular homeware shop - I hope it'll hold up. I've never heard of a doufeu, but it looks excellent for retaining steam.

 

Well, I'll go add the rest of the ingredients to the preferment for Batch #2 of the Rustic Loaf, and chuck it in the fridge. I'm out today anyway, which should help with my impatience.

post #98 of 120
Thread Starter 

Smokering, I hereby christen you The Bread Guru. 

post #99 of 120

Me? Ha! Heck no. I wish. :p I'm learning the terminology, but that doesn't mean I can make it go! Yet... (she says sinisterly, plotting world domination)

 

I got up at 6:45 to bake the bread this morning, because I'm a tad obsessed. The boule went in my small, shallow Lodge pan with a ceramic casserole dish perched upside-down on top. The batard went on the preheated pizza stone with my oval cast iron casserole upside-down on top.

 

This time the crust was fine, the flavour was great and I got a decently round boule, but less oven spring and NO HOLES! The crumb was virtually identical to my regular bread. I'm stumped. This is like alchemy. :p I mean, I shouldn't complain about perfectly nice bread, but why must it be so darned temperamental?!

 

As soon as the stand mixer bowl comes out of the dishwasher I'm gonna start the preferment for another batch of ciabatta. Here's hoping my first success wasn't a fluke - I'm not assuming anything these days! I bought semolina today - it makes a really nice dusting instead of bran or flour  - and will use that in place of part of the flour in the recipe. Apparently it's a thing; gives a better flavour. I hope so, because we'll be serving it to guests, although I froze one of today's loaves just in case!

post #100 of 120
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smokering View Post
 

I got up at 6:45 to bake the bread this morning, because I'm a tad obsessed. 

 

But that is exactly why you are The Bread Guru. 

 

Have you read On Food & Cooking by Harold McGee? It's the bible of the science of cooking and I think you will find it excellent reading, if you haven't gone through it already. 

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