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What do you think about Duggar Family announcement that they are expecting their 20th child? - Page 2

post #21 of 440

Well, I personally think she's a loon, and is completely nuts to have another one (or the last ten) - but some people say the same thing about the third baby in the family. I'm just saying numbers are relative. But yes, to me she gives an impression of "If I have the most kids, I win, I'm the Jesus-est of all. God loves me most, and I can prove it by procreating."

 

I'm wondering - if one of her daughters winds up with infertility problems, how will she be treated? Any guesses?

post #22 of 440

 

Quote:
I don't buy that it's pleasant to grow up in herd

I dunno. People always used to make comments to my family regarding that (and again, there were only 6 of us, which is a far cry from 20, but it was still enough to make people think we were a herd of indistinguishable bodies, apparently!). It never made sense to me. Adding another baby to the family was never mundane or routine, because it wasn't just an interchangeable warm body round the kitchen table - it was a new individual person, with new quirks and looks and habits, and we all recognised that as kids. When Mum told us she was expecting her seventh baby we were thrilled, not "here we go again", and when that baby died (miscarriage) we were very sad. It wasn't just "a" baby, it was OUR baby.

 

People would make jokes like "I bet you'd never notice one or two missing", but whenever someone was away, it made a HUGE difference and the family felt incomplete. I've talked to other people from big families who feel the same way. More people in a family doesn't translate to a bland schoolbusful of clones: it's more like adding to an awesome ensemble cast. (Firefly wouldn't have been nearly as awesome with only four main cast members!)

 

I dunno: I guess I find the term "herd" offensive. ("Litters" too, which I've often heard applied to multiple births.) Children aren't cows; nor is it the same dynamic as, say, a class full of students at school. I'm not sure it's possible to understand without being in a large family (unless maybe you have a really large extended family with tons of cousins? Maybe? I don't, so I'm not sure how that dynamic works, but it might be similar.)

 

Plus, of course, if you're child number 15, you can't really complain about your parents having a lot of kids without wishing yourself out of existence. :p You can complain about the way you were treated, if you feel your parents "mass-produced" kids without viewing them as individuals and giving them sufficient education, clothing, food, attention, enrichment etc, but to complain about existing seems kinda petty. :p

 

Quote:
"Jinger" makes me actually cringe.

Oh my, yes. It doesn't help that "ginger" is used as an insult half the time these days, either. Or it is meant to rhyme with "wringer"?

 

ETA: Just remembered an article I read awhile back - I think when they had their last-but-one baby. They interviewed the Duggar dad just after his wife had given birth - like, they were still in the hospital - and one of his first comments was "We're very happy; we'd love to have more."

 

That really irked me. He had JUST HAD a baby, and he couldn't stop and enjoy it because he was busy assuring the press that they weren't done? It just smacked of publicity-seeking to me, or pushing their beliefs rather too forcefully, or... something. It seemed crass. It was like he was trying not to ruin the "married for X years, with X children" streak, because heaven forbid the years outnumbered the progeny; or something like that. I found it offputting, to say the least. And if they define themselves as "the people that keep having babies", what will happen to their sense of self (senses of selves? senses of self?) when Michelle finally hits menopause and can't have any more kids?

post #23 of 440
Quote:
Originally Posted by Linda on the move View Post


the Duggers creep me out.

 

And yet I worry about them. I fear for her life with this pregnancy -- I think they'll just keep making babies until she's dead.

 

I don't buy the happy family persona. I don't buy that it's pleasant to grow up in herd.  I'd lay money that some day, one of the kids writes a Tell All book.

 

 



I can't imagine any doctor who would approve of this pregnancy, after having a micropreemie due to severe preeclampsia and a 20th child at age 45.  It's not just risky - it's irresponsible, IMO.  

post #24 of 440

Thank you wikipedia.

 

 

Children

  Name Date of Birth Notes
1 Joshua "Josh" James March 3, 1988 (age 23) Married to Anna Keller on September 26, 2008
2 Jana Marie January 12, 1990 (age 21) Birth via C-section
3 John-David
4 Jill Michelle May 17, 1991 (age 20)  
5 Jessa Lauren November 4, 1992 (age 19)  
6 Jinger Nicole December 21, 1993 (age 17) pronounced like "Ginger"
7 Joseph Garrett January 20, 1995 (age 16)  
8 Josiah Matthew August 28, 1996 (age 15)  
9 Joy-Anna October 28, 1997 (age 14)  
10 Jedidiah Robert December 30, 1998 (age 12)  
11 Jeremiah Robert  
12 Jason Michael April 21, 2000 (age 11)  
13 James Andrew July 7, 2001 (age 10)  
14 Justin Samuel November 15, 2002 (age 8)  
15 Jackson Levi May 23, 2004 (age 7) Birth via C-section; featured in Discovery Health special
16 Johannah Faith October 11, 2005 (age 6) Birth featured in a Discovery Health special
17 Jennifer Danielle August 2, 2007 (age 4) Birth featured in a Discovery Health special
18 Jordyn-Grace Makiya December 18, 2008 (2 years 10 months) Birth via C-section
19 Josie Brooklyn December 10, 2009 (1 year 10 months)  

 

post #25 of 440
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bokonon View Post

I can't imagine any doctor who would approve of this pregnancy, after having a micropreemie due to severe preeclampsia and a 20th child at age 45.  It's not just risky - it's irresponsible, IMO.  


She went skydiving with her daughter for her 18 years old birthday. People have different concepts for risk.

 

I think for her, stopping having kids is a fate much worse than any outcome of pre-e and micropremies. She's hostage to her beliefs.

 

post #26 of 440
Josie was born via emergency c-section, so I was right that his new baby will be her 5th c-section.

I just hope this pregnancy is uneventful, and everyone is healthy.
post #27 of 440
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoubleDouble View Post

I've read a comment on some news site, "If you have 20 cats people will think you're crazy". Hey, never thought of it this way.

 

I think it's her choice - people can chose to have 0 kids or 20 kids, it's up to them. (I don't like her ideology, but nothing I can do about it. She could worship a crater on the Moon and think she should have many children to please it, still her choice.)

 

I don't see that the buddy system is necessarily awful - one does not have to be an adult to help to tie the shoes, or to wipe a nose. A hundred years ago, mothers relied on older kids' help, too. And where does one draw the line, exactly - 1:2 for Mom:Kid ratio is ok, 1:6 is sort of ok, 1:12 is illegal?


 

I agree with this, mostly. And nothing against older kids helping out in a big family. But I've heard and seen that their "buddy system" set-up is a bit extreme. As one would expect with a family of 19 kids. Like, it's almost to the point where the older girls are mothering the younger girls....assuming almost total responsibility. I don't know how they can have their own lives that way, yk?

 

post #28 of 440
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bokonon View Post



I can't imagine any doctor who would approve of this pregnancy, after having a micropreemie due to severe preeclampsia and a 20th child at age 45.  It's not just risky - it's irresponsible, IMO.  



I absolutely agree with this! She's really pushing her luck. Not only is it unsafe for her, but for that baby too. I admit that I do watch this show and they all seem normal and happy, but I'd be amazed if everything is really as honky dory as they want it to appear. They've gotta be a little nuts! 

post #29 of 440

I'm happy for them.

post #30 of 440

I just don't get the judgment.

 

My father was the 2nd oldest of 10 children. My mother was the third youngest of 9. Not only did they come from large families but they came from families where the tragedies that made it ha

In my mother's family my Grandfather was an alcoholic who left the family when the youngest was 4 and my grandmother had to raise the kids herself and yes she did have to rely on the older kids a lot. The family still loves spending time together. They all grew up to be rather successful and productive adults. None of them choose large families for themselves but they wouldn't (with a few exceptions =) ) trade their siblings for anything.

 

In my father's family, my grandfather died of a heart attach at age 51 when his oldest was 20 and his youngest 5. Then 10 years later when the youngest was 15 my grandmother died of cancer, leaving my aunt to finish raising the kids with help from the oldest few of her younger siblings. Their family dynamic is more complex, but once again they all will tell you that they grew up happy, healthy and loved. As my grandparents came from very large families themselves (8 and 12). They also had a million cousins to play with and tons of family that stepped in to help when help was needed. Even now anyone in that family (even rather extended family) will do almost anything for another family member.

 

I come from a religious tradition that values letting god control your fertility (though a different tradition than the Duggers) I get that it is hard for people to understand giving up the decisions about family size. But I do be live that the Duggers truly have put their faith in god and trust that he won't give them more than they can handle. Even though it may sound like it my family was given too much, I can assure you they don't view it that way.

 

Even though my parents choose to only have three kids I have so many cousins and love being part of a large extended family. It actually seems strange to me that my kids have only two first cousins. I'm sad for them, but luckily they get to play with a plethora of 2nd cousins. When it is all you know the alternative seems strange. Just as all of you who grew up in smaller family


Edited by JollyGG - 11/9/11 at 5:30pm
post #31 of 440
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoubleDouble View Post

I've read a comment on some news site, "If you have 20 cats people will think you're crazy". Hey, never thought of it this way.

 

I think it's her choice - people can chose to have 0 kids or 20 kids, it's up to them. (I don't like her ideology, but nothing I can do about it. She could worship a crater on the Moon and think she should have many children to please it, still her choice.)

 

I don't see that the buddy system is necessarily awful - one does not have to be an adult to help to tie the shoes, or to wipe a nose. A hundred years ago, mothers relied on older kids' help, too. And where does one draw the line, exactly - 1:2 for Mom:Kid ratio is ok, 1:6 is sort of ok, 1:12 is illegal?



It is a lot more than tying shoes or wiping noses. Their buddy system, fame and money seeking, and a lot of their other practices are disgusting. I don't think anything should be illegal though.

post #32 of 440
Quote:
Originally Posted by Linda on the move View Post



the Duggers creep me out.

And yet I worry about them. I fear for her life with this pregnancy -- I think they'll just keep making babies until she's dead.

I don't buy the happy family persona. I don't buy that it's pleasant to grow up in herd.  I'd lay money that some day, one of the kids writes a Tell All book.


Oh, I so agree. One of them is going to be gay and or an agnostic Democrat.
post #33 of 440
Quote:
Originally Posted by JollyGG View Post

 

Even though my parents choose to only have three kids I have so many cousins and love being part of a large extended family. It actually seems strange to me that my kids have only two first cousins. I'm sad for them, but luckily they get to play with a plethora of 2nd cousins. When it is all you know the alternative seems strange. Just as all of you who grew up in smaller family



If being one of 10, and one of 9 was so great, why did your parents only have 3?  And you don't know what its like to have 10 siblings - you know what its like to have 2 siblings.

 

 

Aside from that (since this is not directed at you JollyGG), I think probably the worst thing about it, is that they are probably making TONS of money off of their reality show - which is nothing more than flaunting their children and showing off to the world.  You know, not all kids want to be on TV, and I don't think any god would approve of making money off of your large family by making your children a public spectacle.  That is probably what I find to be the MOST disturbing!

post #34 of 440
Quote:
Originally Posted by Linda on the move View Post

 

 

  I'd lay money that some day, one of the kids writes a Tell All book.

 

 


 

Yes.  I also expect a book out of one or more of the John and Kate kids.

 

As per the 20th baby thing - I would not really care if she did not have risk factors.  

 

I do wonder what the risks are with her age and having had early onset pre-eclampsia before. I have an ethical issue with choosing to procreate if you know your baby has a far better than average chance of having to go through a lot of pain or health issues.  


Edited by purslaine - 11/9/11 at 6:33pm
post #35 of 440
Quote:
Originally Posted by kathymuggle View Post

 


 

I do wonder what the risks are with her age and having had early onset pre-eclampsia before. I have an ethical issue with choosing to procreate if you know your baby has a far better than average chance of having to through a lot of pain or health issues.  



Having had early onset pre-e, plus being an (extreme!) multipara, as well as her advanced maternal age make her risk of developing preeclampsia again VERY high.  Not only is she at risk of having another micropreemie, but the risks to herself are serious.  If she had HELLP Syndrome in her last pregnancy (which seems possible, as it has been reported that she had gallbladder issues in addition to the pre-e, and HELLP is often mistaken for gallbladder problems), her risks are even higher.

 

In all reality, she could very well not survive this pregnancy.

post #36 of 440

I think they are crazy. And not the fun, happy, joy joy crazy. They are being very irresponsible (and not just with her life). It shouldn't be illegal to have that many kids but I will never personally approve of it.

post #37 of 440
What I wanna know is are their kids always so well behaved? Even off camera?
post #38 of 440
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drummer's Wife View Post

What I wanna know is are their kids always so well behaved? Even off camera?


I wonder what kinds of discipline methods they use.

post #39 of 440

You mean Jinger is pronounced like Ginger??  I thought it was like Jingle in Jingle Bells.  eyesroll.gif  Well, that's a relief because Jeen Ger is a utterly bizarre name. 

 

My mom is #5 of nine.  Her mom was an only child and wanted a big family.  I do like having lots of cousins.  However, dh is #1 of seven and he did not appreciate the experience.  However his parents never did manage to be financially responsible, and they were always on the verge of disaster, even homelessness for a short while.

post #40 of 440
Quote:
Originally Posted by journeymom View Post

You mean Jinger is pronounced like Ginger??  I thought it was like Jingle in Jingle Bells.  eyesroll.gif  Well, that's a relief because Jeen Ger is a utterly bizarre name. 

 

My mom is #5 of nine.  Her mom was an only child and wanted a big family.  I do like having lots of cousins.  However, dh is #1 of seven and he did not appreciate the experience.  However his parents never did manage to be financially responsible, and they were always on the verge of disaster, even homelessness for a short while.



And really, comparing 9 kids to 20 is like me comparing having 2 kids to having 13.  

 

The biggest family I knew of growing up had 13 kids.  The Duggars are going to have 7 more than that.  That's a HUGE difference.

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