HOW does the cod liver oil get fermented? Can't get a clear reply from Green Pastures.

[LCBMAX]

I've had a little correspondence with Green Pastures today, and this is an edited example of my question and their answer-

Me: "Any information on the particular organisms, and how do you source them (or, if you are using a long running strain, how did you source them originally)?"

GP: "All you need to know is it is as it has been since biblical times.  It is fermented fish livers.  Similar to fermented fish.  The product is the oil.  The fermented part is not used. (snip) Maybe you can re-ask your question but hold back from wanting to know intimate details.  Your initial question could not be answered the way it was asked"

Um. Intimate details??? I did explain that I'm not interested in proprietary information, and am just asking as an interested consumer. Answers I was expecting might have been "We started with a wild culture by exposing the product to the air for x number of days" or "Once a month we inoculate the livers with a sourdough starter that we've been using for 5 years" or "Our culture consists of bacterias x y and z and yeasts  p q and r."

Soooooo. I'm turning to you all educated folks to help either answer my question or reformulate my question in a way that they can answer more specifically than just "biblical and that's all you need to know." 

Thanks!

[cameragirl]

They way it used to be was that they'd ferment the whole fish, and the oil would separate and float on top. The Weston A. Price Foundation has an article on how cod liver oil is made and fermented. I'm not sure how Green Pastures does it, and I don't understand why they won't give basic details.

[LCBMAX]

I think this is the article you're referring to, and it's actually by the GP guy. "Natural lacto-fermentation" does make sense to me - I hope I can get a little more specific info. Or maybe someone can tell my why that is irrelevant... Mostly I'd like to know where the ferment originated - wild type, lab, other?

[cameragirl]

I don't blame you for wanting to know. I like to know what is in my food and supplements. I may be wrong, but I'm assuming that they have a controlled culture that is used to prevent contamination, instead of using just salt like they would have done before.

[LCBMAX]

Well, I guess my correspondence with GP has come to the end of the line - after a number of passes, in which I was also asked WHY do I want to know, I was finally told that any information about the ferment is proprietary. (They could have mentioned that with the first reply!) So I have no idea if they even know what's in their ferment, nor how it began, or anything. I recognize that I'm getting a little caught up in their refusal to offer any information - there's an adolescent side of me that just hates to be told that I am not allowed to know something. But that's not relevant here.

So... just leaving this be with a call out that if anyone ever gets any more information on this, to please share it with me. I know it's top secret, and I promise to put it in the vault.

Humpf.

[serenbat]

Well, I guess my correspondence with GP has come to the end of the line - after a number of passes, in which I was also asked WHY do I want to know, I was finally told that anyinformation about the ferment is proprietary. (They could have mentioned that with the first reply!) So I have no idea if they even know what's in their ferment, nor how it began, or anything. I recognize that I'm getting a little caught up in their refusal to offer any information - there's an adolescent side of me that just hates to be told that I am not allowed to know something. But that's not relevant here.

that should tell you enough about it-----they don't seem very interested in having you as a customer! 

customer service like that = no business (that how we deal)

integrity matters to some companies, others feel what ever they put out should be good enough and you should just buy it up

[LCBMAX]

Well, on that note - does anyone have a special recommendation for another manufacturer of fermented CLO?

[serenbat]

I have not found any that can prove what they claim- we just use Nordic Naturals- wish we could use "fermented" but I can't buy into claims and BS customer service. 

[cameragirl]

I don't use FCLO either, and won't if that is their explanation of how the product is made. We use Carlson Super CLO gel caps for DH and I, and the lemon flavored liquid for DD.

[BubblingBrooks]

The proprietor of Blue Ice is very guarded on the process. There are no other manufacturers of FCLO at this time.
Here is what I have found out though.
They are using stainless steel vats rather then the old fashioned barrels.
The process is in many ways similar to making wine,

Samples are drawn periodical as the estimated finish time approaches.

Let me ask you this? FDA requirements for cod liver oil have really messed up the products that are found on the market.
None are able to obtain oil for their individual blends that is not heat or steam processed.
Blue Ice has had to take many steps to protect themselves by buying in their own livers, and keeping information very generic.

I respect that and will support them in their endeavor to keep extreme regulations out of their business.


Remember, the FDA is on record stating that they intend to go after anyone who provides so called natural non pharmaceutical supplements that have not been evaluated and approved by them.

[LCBMAX]

Hey Bubbling! Your post would go toward clarifying why my whole correspondence with them was so cloak and dagger-esque.

But to be honest, (and I used to be a smart person before all my brain cells got used up in pregnancy), I'm not clearly understanding the issues.

The samples are drawn to test what?

What are the problematic FDA requirements for CLO that are relevant here?

How does "buying in their own livers" protect them? From what?

What would be an example of non-generic information that they can't give? (I'm not asking for the Real Information, but an example.)

I can understand why anyone might label their product as "not intended to treat any condition" - isn't that enough of a disclaimer?

What does any of this have to do with clarifying the major critters (or sources thereof) in their lacto-ferment? Yogurt makers disclose that, as do some sauerkraut and other fermented food makers.

Thanks for further explanations, if you've got the time and will. I don't really want to give them up but the email exchange was VERY weird and off-putting.
 

Originally Posted by BubblingBrooks 

The proprietor of Blue Ice is very guarded on the process. There are no other manufacturers of FCLO at this time.
Here is what I have found out though.
They are using stainless steel vats rather then the old fashioned barrels.
The process is in many ways similar to making wine,

Samples are drawn periodical as the estimated finish time approaches.

Let me ask you this? FDA requirements for cod liver oil have really messed up the products that are found on the market.
None are able to obtain oil for their individual blends that is not heat or steam processed.
Blue Ice has had to take many steps to protect themselves by buying in their own livers, and keeping information very generic.

I respect that and will support them in their endeavor to keep extreme regulations out of their business.


Remember, the FDA is on record stating that they intend to go after anyone who provides so called natural non pharmaceutical supplements that have not been evaluated and approved by them.

[BubblingBrooks]

First off, he has no bed side manner when it comes to conversations
Don't be put off by it.
Not unusual at all to have issues in talking with them.
Tell you what. Why don't you contact www.drrons.com and ask them.
They will be able to deliver a better explanation for sure.

The testing I believe is to see when its ready.
Just like you would taste your kraut or kombucha.
And I do know that they test for metals, and would never sell a contaminated batch.

I believe they do not want to put disclaimers on the bottles. Can't recall the reason though. Its been a couple years.
Other then disclaimers are not all what they are cracked up to be.

One thing to note, is that they put just an estimate of the amount of A and D in the doseage, due to the fact that this is a truly natural product made from many fish livers, and each batch is going to vary. Even season to season will cause changes.

may I ask if you have ordered a bottle to try yet?
One bottle will last you around 5 months at the dose rec.
 

Originally Posted by LCBMAX 

Hey Bubbling! Your post would go toward clarifying why my whole correspondence with them was so cloak and dagger-esque.

But to be honest, (and I used to be a smart person before all my brain cells got used up in pregnancy), I'm not clearly understanding the issues.

The samples are drawn to test what?

What are the problematic FDA requirements for CLO that are relevant here?

How does "buying in their own livers" protect them? From what?

What would be an example of non-generic information that they can't give? (I'm not asking for the Real Information, but an example.)

I can understand why anyone might label their product as "not intended to treat any condition" - isn't that enough of a disclaimer?

What does any of this have to do with clarifying the major critters (or sources thereof) in their lacto-ferment? Yogurt makers disclose that, as do some sauerkraut and other fermented food makers.

Thanks for further explanations, if you've got the time and will. I don't really want to give them up but the email exchange was VERY weird and off-putting.
 

[LCBMAX]

Oh yeah, I've been taking it since pre-conception, and my 3.75 yo son takes it almost daily too (unflavored!) 

I'm glad to hear that the communication style is just a personality issue and not a topical issue!

I will check with drrons and see if they can do better on the explanations, thanks for that idea.

[BubblingBrooks]

I will always buy and take it, because that is what reversed my baby's severe underbite. No other brand on the market has been able to prove doing that, nor have I seen any other brand revers the diabetes issues and eliminate sunburn.