Warm Winter Wishes and BFP's 40 ++ TTC - Page 10

[fuller2]

LitMama -- the pain could just be a corpus luteum cyst which would be normal for this stage of pregnancy.  I had one for ages after I conceived -- I was actually evaluated for an ectopic too because of it with this pregnancy.  The follicle that releases the egg creates a corpus luteum cyst that I guess provides various hormones etc until the placenta kicks in later on.  Some could see it easily on ultrasound, others couldn't, but I can tell you that it definitely caused some pain.  (btw I second that doctors tend to be miserable at u/s unless they do it a lot -- the midwife in my doc's office found the cyst instantly but when she had the OB come in to take a look the OB couldn't find it at all and was obviously a total klutz with the machine)

I hope this works out for you -- I really do.   xoxoxoxo!!

[LitMama]

Thank you, Fuller! I really appreciate hearing about your experience. I bet that's what it is. I'd forgotten about that!

This is turning into a Shakespearean drama, probably King Lear (with my RE cast in the lead). The politics at Kaiser are dizzying. While trying to cancel the appointment my RE made (without asking me) for this morning and see my Ob/Gyn instead, I had a very knowledgeable and frank Ob/Gyn nurse explain to me that, A) it's too early for a proper ultrasound, and B) once you see a specialist, that specialist becomes the puppet master and any other doctor you see within the system won't overrule him. She said I'm stuck in a gray zone at 6 weeks and an unfortunate cascade has been launched that could be leading to a misdiagnosis. I'm incredibly frustrated but also determined to not be a victim of this system.

The nurse told me the RE has put a note in my file that I'm a non-cooperative patient (because I've canceled the appointments he made for me). I realize it's possible the Ob/Gyn I see today might just back up the RE, in which case I'll probably have to get another second opinion outside the system. DH and I talked with his dad (who's an MD) last night to get his perspective on the politics. Sounds like it's mostly butt-covering at this point, and once we're free of this RE he'll forget about us and not spend any energy trying to control us or our other doctors. I hope so!

When I write up that warning about early ultrasounds, I'm going to include a warning about starting with specialists. Never again for me!

[fuller2]

Be strong, LitMama -- I work at a big teaching hospital with many MDs and know all about politics and how one bad apple can really make problems.  However, I also know that most professionals are just that -- professional -- and if your RE is being difficult with you, you can bet that you aren't the only one and that other docs in the system know he's difficult.  (The fact that the nurse told you about the note indicates to me that she may be on YOUR side, not his.)  However, also keep in mind that all the physicians are all on the same team so they do have to behave like they agree with each other to their patients -- especially if your RE is any kind of big shot within the system.

Behind the scenes, though, it can be different.  I agree with your DH's dad.  If you can somehow escape your RE (don't worry about what he thinks of you) or at least minimize his impact (there may have to be some ritualized consultation with him when/if you switch to another doc, just to keep everyone's work relationships flowing smoothly -- yes, I know this really has nothing to do with YOU but more to do with the careers of the physicians who are "treating" you) I think you'll be fine.  I am sure he will have egg on his face if this turns out to be a viable pregnancy and he will want to forget about you as quickly as possible anyway. 

(Your RE may well have been sued by someone for missing an ectopic or something like that in the past -- I mean, they CAN be really serious -- and he's just being super cautious now.  I once had a very nice doctor really really freak me out about my possibly having some incredibly rare neurological disease -- which turned out to be nothing. It seemed that he had missed this once in a prior patient years ago and was still haunted by it.  So you never know.  Docs are people too.)

6 weeks really is early.  (though I believe that's exactly when my corpus luteum cyst started to hurt)  Can you just stay away from ALL doctors for a couple of weeks until you know better what's going on?  Maybe not possible if they think you're having an ectopic...but.  Sounds obvious, but don't forget to do stuff like go out for a walk every day and clear your head.  Just because they are having a freakout doesn't mean you have to get sucked into it!  (I don't expect you need to be reminded of anything like that since it sounds like you are already able to keep some distance from all this.  So just sit back and enjoy the show...) 

Good luck with it all.  You certainly will have a good story to tell no matter how this ends up!

[WaturMama]

I love the hopeful stories which are abounding for 2012--TenzinsMama, I love that second twin story. Fuller2, I'm so, so happy to think of you with a kicking babe and a great work situation. How refreshing to hear a happy work story.

Litmama, I am so sorry to hear you are dealing with such bureaucracy and a sour personality. Even before I read Fuller2's response, I also thought that it is likely that others' in the system know that is a difficult doc and will take his note (boo, his note!) with a big grain of salt. Also, I have had a lot of left ovary pains with pg, too--in fact I've even worried if I didn't feel them. (!) A wonderful RE I used to see explained that because of the anatomy of the intestines and how things are arranged in our bellies we are more likely to feel those sensations on the left than the right. By the way that RE sadly for me left his practice and joined Kaiser. (I don't have Kaiser.) He is now at Kaiser Sacramento. If it comes to it I could pass on his name. I know you can get 2nd opinions at other Kaisers. My parents have done it. But, I am very hopeful it won't come to that. I can imagine how nervous you are, but it really does sound good. Those doubling betas and your ongoing pg symptoms are the best news. Another thing I thought of for you is I wonder if you would want to talk to a midwife. I know that might sound like an over-the-edge amount of opinions, but a good one is very knowledgeable, probably closer to you in philosophy, and they are reasonably priced and often very wonderfully communicative. If that is a route you choose to take, I have one I could recommend near you. I hope your appointment with the ob/gyn puts goes beautifully today and puts a lot of this to rest. From your previous talk with her sounds promising. In case the reminder helps: if you are feeling stressed go outside, or breathe, and listen to your wise mama intuition. I am rooting for you and little bean and your whole family.

AFM, I have more pg symptoms this am. Could be my PMS in this new totally-no-nursing phase. I think I am at the very least 13 dpo. I took a pg test. It could only be called a BFN, but there was one of those "maybe if I look in the light right that's a faint line" lines. Because the RE's office has a 48 hour cancellation policy, I called to see if she could still talk to me about holding onto a pg (because really that is my problem, not getting pg so much) if I am pg on Thursday when I see her, and she said she could, so I am keeping that appt. I am really looking forward to it.

[LitMama]

Fuller and Waturmama, I just wrote you both a long reply and then accidentally deleted it! Don't have time to reconstruct it right now but just want to thank you both SO MUCH and send you both huge ((( hugs ))) for your great thoughts, ideas and support. I'm feeling more educated and stronger already!

Will write more later this afternoon or evening.

WaturMama, thank you for offering a midwife referral, I'll take it! Would you please PM me her name and contact info if you have it? Thank you thank you!

Breathing..

[Stevi]

LitMama...   My second pregnancy/miscarriage was an ectopic scare. My betas were not doubling, but were dropping very slowly, that slow drop was why an ectopic was suspected. I know the slow drop was because I wouldn't let go and kept using the progesterone cream, which is what was delaying my miscarriage. I finally miscarried immediately after I stopped the progesterone. Ultrasounds could not find the pregnancy anywhere, not in the tubes or uterus.

Also during that pregnancy I experienced the most excrutiating pain of my life. That was another reason an ectopic was suspected. The doctors could not say for sure what it was, but suspected that it was a burst ovarian cyst.

The miscarriage had nothing to do with the cyst, the pregnancy was weak from the beginning, faint HPTs all the way through. I documented it here on Mothering, if you'd like I can give you a link to the thread.

[WaturMama]

Litmama: Oh, bummerbummerbummer about the post. I am glad to hear that was supportive. I sent you a PM with the referral.

[LitMama]

Thanks, Stevi, for sharing your experience with me. And thank you so much, WaturMama, for the midwife referral. 

Sad news at my 2:00 appointment today. This doctor (whom I liked and would see again) did find a gestational sac and a baby in my uterus, but no yolk sac or fetal pole, which she said should be seen by now with my betas as high as they are. Also the sac was larger than it should be and irregularly shaped. And it had debris inside it, apparently because the baby has already died and started to disintegrate. She also saw signs of bleeding in my uterus, a sign of an imminent miscarriage.

I have a D&C scheduled for Tuesday... I'm glad it's not until next week so I can have time to breathe and decide whether to proceed that way or let nature take its course. She said she thought as soon as I stopped taking progesterone (just like in your case, Stevi) and also stopped taking my Chinese herbs, I might miscarry on my own. But she also said it appears my body is really holding on to this pregnancy because my betas are continuing to climb (how is that possible?), so a D&C might be necessary. 

One thing that astounded me -- she found the sac immediately by looking at my prior ultrasound films (that other doctors had looked at already). Either 3 doctors did not see the sac, or they saw it and for some bizarre reason chose to withhold the information from me, putting me through the hell of an ectopic scare. She then saw it again (it had grown) on my new ultrasound this afternoon.

I feel pretty numb right now. DH and I only had a moment together after the appointment, then I had to go pick up my DD from school and had to rally. I feel like I just want to sleep. Immediately after the appointment, before this numbness set in, I felt deeply sad but not devastated, definitely hopeful that we can do this again. According to my TCM person, she sees this all the time in her practice... a pregnancy that doesn't stick as the eggs are improving, then within a few months a healthy pregnancy once the eggs have improved enough. So that thought is sustaining me. For the first time, the passage of time seems like a positive thing.

This doctor was very pro-TCM and told me that a colleague of hers (the Ob/Gyn I paid out of pocket to see on Friday) had had her babies at 41 and 44 after seeing my acupuncturist. My acupuncturist is somewhat of a local celebrity, so it seems all the Ob/Gyns know her. I really have faith in her.

On the upside, I was really, really relieved that it's not ectopic (although, strangely enough, that still hasn't been 100% ruled out, as there's a 1 in 30,000 chance I could have both an intrauterine miscarriage and an ectopic). I also feel really, really relieved I don't have to take methotrexate and wait 3 months to try again. It could have been a lot worse.

I felt so connected to this baby, though... I need to find a way to grieve.

[WaturMama]

Litmama, I am so very sorry. I have found it so heartbreaking to get my hopes up and have a connection to a spirit and then lose it. My heart goes out to you, and I wish you ease in finding ways and space to grieve. I am really glad you found someone who could see something. That does seem like some level of closure. I am also glad you found an ob/gyn you like. You might ask her how and if she thinks the other docs missed it, if you think that might help you make peace with the situation. Wow about your acupuncturist.

[fuller2]

I'm so sorry, LitMama.  But maybe your baby will wait until a healthy egg/sperm combo gets through and still be born to you.  I also had a lot of acupuncture before getting pregnant -- almost 2 years, in fact, stopped about 6 months before I actually conceived. I had at least one chemical pregnancy during that time but nothing else until my surgery.  I did read in my TCM book that it takes a good year (NOT a month!) for each egg to be selected and really fully develop, so it makes sense that acupuncture you got a year ago may finally be helping you now.  (I did have 1 miscarriage the cycle before the one where I got pregnant as well.)

I hope you can find time and space to grieve -- you've really been through the wringer in the past few weeks.  I hope you can get some peace now and rest a little. 

[LitMama]

Thank you, WaturMama, thank you, Fuller... I so appreciate the warm words and the encouragement. Fuller, I'm encouraged to hear from you what your process with acupuncture was. I'm going to try another HSG, too.

So! Last night I was beginning to grieve and make peace, and was ready for closure. I had a glass of wine (the first in maybe 6 months) and quit taking my herbs and my progesterone. However, today my TCM doctor called and urged me to continue waiting another week before taking any action... she feels ultrasounds can be inaccurate and believes my beta levels indicate a growing baby, and says she's seen cases like mine turn out fine. She had a patient with my exact scenario (but at 7 weeks) who waited one more week, then found a yolk sac, fetal pole and heartbeat and is now well into a healthy pregnancy.

My head is spinning, I don't what to think or feel. My heart is so wrung out I can't crank up the hope machine again, but I'm willing to at least go through the motions of waiting.

Thank you again, I don't know how I could have gotten through this without all of you wonderful women

[fuller2]

Wow, LitMama.  I guess you know all about impermanence by now, hmm!?  (are you at all Buddhist?)  Sounds like the universe is telling you to kick back and take it easy for a while. It also sounds like a glass of wine was a good idea!! 

The world won't come to an end if you don't have a D&C on Tuesday should you decide to go that route.  Medical people like to have answers and closure and little time frames/standardized processes that they follow, but again, you don't have to do what they say just so THEY can stamp your case "closed" and move on to the next person.  Listen to your heart.  (and if your heart doesn't know, that's OK too...the right answer will make itself known in time)

[skeemama]

Oh Litmama, I am so sorry.

[Stevi]

LitMama...   Wow! I like your TCM doctor though, I agree that those rising numbers have to mean something. I hope things become clearer soon, and that it is for the good!

[LitMama]

Thank you Skeemama and Stevi.

Fuller, your post soothed my soul. It's all been a very interesting lesson in impermanence for sure, and also listening, intuition, and trust. The waiting IS hard but I'm leaning into the impatience and feeling it give. Funny you should ask... I've been reading a lot of Buddhist lit in the past few years and practicing meditation. This week I've been reading Tich Nhat Hanh, Pema Chodron and listening to a multi-CD set (talks and guided meditations) by Jack Kornfield called "a lamp in the darkness: guided meditations for difficult times". I highly recommend it to anyone who's Buddhism-curious and/or going through a difficult time (not that any of you know what I'm talking about here... ).

Thanks again for the loving presence, all... 

[WaturMama]

However, today my TCM doctor called and urged me to continue waiting another week before taking any action...  I said, "OMG!" so loud when I read this that my dh in the other room got startled and said, "What's going on?" !!  Oh it is hard for us humans to be in that place of not knowing. Are you going to go back on the herbs and progesterone? Don't worry about the wine. I'm sending some extra good wishes your way for little maybe bean and for finding peace in not knowing. (((hug)))

Speaking of not knowing--I'm finishing up probably 17 dpo, if not probably 15 dpo with no AF. My RE appoint is tomorrow. I have so much hopes around it, I'm a bit nervous. Send me wishes for clarity of thought to ask what I want.

[LitMama]

Oh it is hard for us humans to be in that place of not knowing...

You said it, sister! I feel like this is now a huge cosmic joke (and a teaching moment, all rolled into one). This is going to sound strange, but there's something delicious about the adventure and the mystery... I definitely feel alive. And now that that knot of impatience is coming undone, I'm feeling peace seep in. Peace with whatever. Today when DH heard the news from my TCM doctor, he got really upset and said, "but I've already started to let go, and I think I need to keep letting go". And I realized we both need to make our peace without actually knowing what we are making peace with. 

WaturMama, 17dpo and no AF sounds very promising! You are so fertile, whenever I hear this from you I think good things! I'm wishing for SO many good things for you tomorrow... no AF for starters, but also exactly what you need from this appointment with the RE. I hope this person is knowledgeable and wise, compassionate and humane. A mensch. And I hope you find the clarity of thought and voice that you want to get the information you need. Sending you many good vibes for wonderful vision and clarity tomorrow! 

[fuller2]

Go Waturmama! 17 dpo sounds good...here's hoping for 18 and 20 and 30 and 266 days!!

[gumblossom]

Litmama - you are amazing - to be so calm with all this going on. I hope you get answers soon.

Waturmama - I'm thinking good thoughts about your 17 dpo! I hope to hear about a bfp soon, and that all goes well with the RE.

I'm feeling really happy as I'm actually having a proper period, this first in 6 months, since the miscarriage. It is a relief to actually have a flow and no pain.

I'm supposed to have a blood test (to re-check my hormones) on day 2-3, but today is day 1, and the clinic is closed Saturday and Sunday, so it would have to be day 1 or 4. Which would be better? I'm leaning towards day 4.

I have a good feeling about 2012. SO much better than 2011.

[amommyTTC]

Litmama.. I agree with your TCM, as I have said before and because we approached the vanishing twin topic, that blood in your uterus could be from that. and the irregular shape of the sac could also be from that contributing. 

If you are not having severe pain, which is usually the case with ectopic, it won't hurt to wait a bit. 

Lastly, your betas are climbing! 

I hope you can get some better news.