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gifted infants? myth or fact. Advice anyone - Page 2

post #21 of 98
Thread Starter 

he does feed when asleep, but thanks

post #22 of 98
Have you tried wearing him skin-to-skin in a wrap or sling? It might block out that oh-so-fascinating world so he can get more interested in nursing. He's WAY too young for solids.
And yeah, the "profoundly gifted" thing sounds like they were either blowing you off or trying to reassure what they perceived as a nervous first-time mom.
post #23 of 98
Thread Starter 

Thank you for your kind and encouraging words. You are right it does set me up for snide comments from others. Too distracted to eat is accurate. He does get nibbles here and there but good feeds only at night. Thank you again for your post.

post #24 of 98
Thread Starter 

That is what I felt as well, but their attempt at reassurance helped me none right?

post #25 of 98

I'm shocked that so many here are treating this seriously.

post #26 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by UpToSomeGood View Post

I'm shocked that so many here are treating this seriously.



You never know.  Benefit of the doubt and all that.

 

I do see it as plausible that an infant would be too busy to eat. It is not uncommon in older babies - nursing in a darkish boring room seems to help.  What I find odd (not necessarily lying, though) is the 7 day hospital stay, diagnosis and sending her home with no plan.  Something is odd there.


Edited by purslaine - 11/14/11 at 2:23pm
post #27 of 98
edited. peace.gif
Edited by Adaline'sMama - 11/16/11 at 7:44pm
post #28 of 98
Thread Starter 

hi

the too busy thing i had read 4 month old babies doing, where they are too interested in the surrounding to nurse. We were there for 7 days as they were not too keen on sending us home without a solid plan on how to ensure he is feeding well and how to prevent this situation from reoccurring (he was not severely dehydrated to clarify but he was dehydrated nonetheless), which was a good thing the doctor said the stay is "preventative to ensure we do not get to a point where we have a kid who is not thriving. But then the weekend ended, the ped on monday was not the same one we had been seeing although they all work together in groups and had discussed and that one was comfortable saying "go home and keep doing all the things you have been doing, and to accept the fact that feeding him may never be easy". I know it sounds odd, that is why i am still looking for a reason. As for it being a nursing strike, well it sure is the longest nursing strike isn't it? 

post #29 of 98

the OP might be lying through her teeth. So might anyone on this board. You might be a dog, on the internet no one knows. Or she might be a genuinely worried and sleep deprived new mom faced with a very unusual situation. That's the point of the gifted forum: you can bring those really unusual stories about your really unusual kids that no one in RL would believe and ask for help. Might turn out giftedness plays a part. Or not. Please give her the benefit of doubt or at least leave those of us who do alone.

Reverse cycling isn't actually that unusual, my DD was a bit of a reverse cycler. However, I'd describe reverse cycling as tanking up at night  and snacking during the day - for an otherwise good nurser to refuse to nurse (or drink, or sleep) altogether during the daytime and enter into dehydration because of it is unusual. For that reason I would not try to break the cycle, as another poster suggested, until your the child is a few months older and the danger of dehydration is not so severe and the child will take at least one solid feed, of whatever, during the day, so that it is clear he WILL eat when he is hungry. Some kids will not.

I know of a high-flying European Court judge who put all of her 6 kids into a reverse cycle on purpose so she could go back to work full time at once and only have the babies brought in to nurse during her lunch hour. She then nursed through the night as opposed through the day and in between nursing sessions finished her PhD if I remember correctly. there are a lot of unusual ways of bringing up babies.

post #30 of 98

man, if someone on here is a dog on the internet, I'd LOVE to pay whomever taught them such a badass trick to come train my dog.

post #31 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by Novicemama View Post

hi

the too busy thing i had read 4 month old babies doing, where they are too interested in the surrounding to nurse. We were there for 7 days as they were not too keen on sending us home without a solid plan on how to ensure he is feeding well and how to prevent this situation from reoccurring (he was not severely dehydrated to clarify but he was dehydrated nonetheless), which was a good thing the doctor said the stay is "preventative to ensure we do not get to a point where we have a kid who is not thriving. But then the weekend ended, the ped on monday was not the same one we had been seeing although they all work together in groups and had discussed and that one was comfortable saying "go home and keep doing all the things you have been doing, and to accept the fact that feeding him may never be easy". I know it sounds odd, that is why i am still looking for a reason. As for it being a nursing strike, well it sure is the longest nursing strike isn't it? 



Dehydrated babies are SICK.  They look sick.  They act sick.  They don't pee.  They don't play.  Their mouths are dry.  They don't cry tears.  That's garden-variety dehydration.  Severe dehydration makes babies more sick than that - sunken eyes, sunken fontanels, cold hands and feet, more lethargy.  You're not going to miss it.  Once you know a baby is dehydrated, it's easy to fix.  If they can't take fluids orally, they can be rehydrated via IV.  I think it's OK to let yourself relax about that, especially while your baby is too busy and distracted to nurse.  

 

Honestly, I think the doc was right to send you home.  It's very unusual for a baby to be admitted for anything before something goes seriously wrong - it sounds like your first doc is very old-fashioned.  Hospitals aren't good places for babies, and it sounds like your baby is super-active, which is the gold-standard indicator that a baby is healthy and thriving, even if no one is really certain how or why.  And that's OK - you don't need to seek out reasons why a baby is doing well, because that's not a thing you need to fix.  

 

While I think your physicians deserve some snarky comments, I don't think you do.  You sound like a worried mom.  Gently, I think it's possible that you're abnormally worried.  How are you doing?  Have you been able to see your health care provider since all this started?  Can someone babysit while you take an uninterrupted nap?  Sleeplessness and post-partum depression can both make you anxious.  Take care of yourself so you can keep up with your boy.  

 

 

post #32 of 98
Thread Starter 

Yes the first doc was an older fellow. That was the reason why I went to ER, he had not peed all day of course since he had not drank all day. He is active and has been even in utero. And the prolonged stay was because they had no solution for us, and this was the second time I had been to emerg and he had needed IV fluids, so the purpose of the stay was to figure it out right.

What is OP and RL?

 

 

Am not depressed, am tired though that much is true. It takes a lot of energy to try to convince an infant to nurse.

I do realize how unusual this is, how do you think I felt when the nurses who tried to give him a bottle would give up and say "it is weird". The resident said the same words to me, I'm thinking, ok I am here for answers.

He is not sick, feeding is not easy, and I am diligent about ensuring enough pees and poos in a 24 hour period as I was told to think about it in those terms as opposed to night and day, so if no pee in 24 hours then come to the H.

 

I did come to this forum thinking that people would understand my question. Again i was not pleased with the stay, the discharge or the diagnosis, and given you guys are parenting gifted children i thought i would explain my situation and see if anyone had heard anything of the like. I am surprised that it upset people. I will continue to work on resolving my baby's feeding issue, next on the list is SLP as he does sometimes choke on apparently nothing so maybe it is a swallowing issue.

 

 

Sorry if I upset anyone, but no, I am not lying.

 

Thanks for all those who responded.

post #33 of 98

OP is "original poster" - in this case, you.  RL means "real life."  

 

I hate to suggest it, but some babies just hold it.  Rather than tracking your son's diapers, in your case, it probably makes sense to track his activity level.  Playing baby = all is good.  

post #34 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by Novicemama View Post

 

 

I did come to this forum thinking that people would understand my question. Again i was not pleased with the stay, the discharge or the diagnosis, and given you guys are parenting gifted children i thought i would explain my situation and see if anyone had heard anything of the like. I am surprised that it upset people. I will continue to work on resolving my baby's feeding issue, next on the list is SLP as he does sometimes choke on apparently nothing so maybe it is a swallowing issue.

 

 

 


OP mean original poster

 

RL probably means real life.

 

bolding mine.  My youngest was born with a health condition that is often associated with developing oral aversions (did not happen in her case).  I am wondering if he is associating choking with eating - hence the lack of eating?  I could be completely barking up the wrong tree, though - just thought I would shoot it out.  

 

You could cross post on the breastfeeding or health forums.

 

I do think it is typical for gifted children to sleep very little, every few months or so there will be a thread on here about busy and non sleeping babies. Of course sometimes a gifted child will be sleepy and a non-gifted child will not be sleepy and busy.  I am not sure it is possible to diagnose an infant as gifted - although you can your suspicions.

 

 

The non-eating thing as an infant is not related to giftedness as far as I know.  

 

 


Edited by purslaine - 11/14/11 at 3:27pm
post #35 of 98

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigerle View Post

the OP might be lying through her teeth. So might anyone on this board. You might be a dog, on the internet no one knows.


 Woof! You caught me!  dog2.gif   winky.gif

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigerle View Post

Reverse cycling isn't actually that unusual, my DD was a bit of a reverse cycler. However, I'd describe reverse cycling as tanking up at night  and snacking during the day - for an otherwise good nurser to refuse to nurse (or drink, or sleep) altogether during the daytime and enter into dehydration because of it is unusual. For that reason I would not try to break the cycle, as another poster suggested, until your the child is a few months older and the danger of dehydration is not so severe and the child will take at least one solid feed, of whatever, during the day, so that it is clear he WILL eat when he is hungry. Some kids will not.

 

I had one highly distractable nurser and one who reverse cycled. My highly distractable nurser started being distracted early -- about 11-12 weeks (so not as early as the OP's). He would not nurse in public. He had to nurse in a quiet room. I did have to pay attention to how often we were out and how much stimulation he got. There was one horrendous flight that I took back to see my family when he was 4 months. He did not nurse at all for 10 hours. When we got to my sister's, I had to retreat to a bedroom, tell all my family to be super quiet and nurse him. Even then, he only nursed a little because the environment was all so new.

 

4 years later, we discovered that my highly distractable nurser has sensory issues. He was over-reacting to all sorts of environmental stimuli; sound and sight were the worst for him. Occupational therapy from ages 5-7 made a big difference for him. So, I might suggest a consult with an occupational therapist, if you feel the need to continue pursuing a reason for this. (And FWIW, he's never needed as much sleep as a typical child. He gave up naps at 18 months, he sleeps about 9 hours a night on a good night, which shouldn't be enough for a 10 year old. I think it's related to his sensory issues, but it might not be.) He's highly active, skinny, and developmentally fine. He's moderately gifted, by the way. He's verbally gifted, and only borderline in math. But he doesn't need a grade skip, he's not so far ahead that some of the programs for profoundly gifted kids even make sense for him.

 

My reverse cycler didn't start reverse cycling until I went back to work. She HATED bottles and any sort of artificial nipple. (another highly sensitive kid.) She took about 1-2 oz while I was away at work, and nursed all night. So, a child really can survive on an ounce or two over a 10-12 hour stretch.

 

My recommendations would be:

  • Check out kellymom.com for information on nursing strikes -- we had one at 5 1/2 months when ds was teething. He bit me, I screamed, he quit nursing for 2 weeks. He resumed nursing when I was changing his diaper while I was topless, and I just leaned over and sort of let my breast come in quick contact with my mouth. He looked at me, took the breast in his mouth, and bit me very gently. I swear the look in his eye was "I'm checking to see if you're going to freak out again". I have no idea if that's common or not common at 5 1/2 months. I was startled by the 'maturity' of his look and his clearly testing me out.
  • If you don't already, ask someone (a La Leche League Leader?) to teach you how to nurse lying down. That's the ONLY thing that saved me with my reverse cycler.
  • Quit weighing him daily. Make sure he pees, but don't weigh him. You can't really even keep track of poops at this age, because breastfed babies often start going longer periods without pooping.
  • Ignore what the doctor said about profoundly gifted and focus on his hypersensitivities instead. If you can do some sensory work with him during the day, he might be more receptive to nursing once or twice during the day. Unfortunately, I don't know of any books to recommend for an infant. Raising a Sensory Smart Child gives ideas for toddlers and preschoolers.
  • Organize some resources so that you can get a good nap in every day, as you're going to need to catch up on sleep.
  • Try really hard not to laugh at your doctors!
post #36 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by LynnS6 View Post

 


 Woof! You caught me!  dog2.gif   winky.gif

 

I did not make this up! guys, I swear this is a quote! "Microserfs" by Douglas Coupland, maybe?

 

I

  • Check out kellymom.com for information on nursing strikes -- we had one at 5 1/2 months when ds was teething. He bit me, I screamed, he quit nursing for 2 weeks. He resumed nursing when I was changing his diaper while I was topless, and I just leaned over and sort of let my breast come in quick contact with my mouth. He looked at me, took the breast in his mouth, and bit me very gently. I swear the look in his eye was "I'm checking to see if you're going to freak out again". I have no idea if that's common or not common at 5 1/2 months. I was startled by the 'maturity' of his look and his clearly testing me out.
  • Kinda OT (that's "off topic") but you have written about this before and I have always been wondering: how did your son survive? Did he take a bottle instead? Sorry if this sounds like a dumb question but my youngest has never taken any artificial nipple to this day and my oldest, while taking a bottle during the day, apparently screamed for three nights when I had to go to hospital for surgery, and they had to keep spooning pureed pears into him.
  • Quit weighing him daily. Make sure he pees, but don't weigh him. You can't really even keep track of poops at this age, because breastfed babies often start going longer periods without pooping.
  • I kinda disagree on the not weighing, like I suggested I'd weigh every other day for a while just for the reassurance this would give. And give up as soon as I'd felt comfortable. I was told by my very crunchy midwife not to weigh my preemie and instead keep track of poops and pees, and it drove me bonkers, nor does it tell you anything about proper weight gain. Pee tells you about dehydration but I agree that poop counts are useless. Just so you know, "longer periods" with mine meant "up to ten days", and then you'd get the load of a week-and-a-half, and you'd have to put them on the changing table and keep putting new diapers under them while they were pooping. Thank God they only ever did this at home until they went back to three day periods or so.
  • Ignore what the doctor said about profoundly gifted and focus on his hypersensitivities instead. If you can do some sensory work with him during the day, he might be more receptive to nursing once or twice during the day. Unfortunately, I don't know of any books to recommend for an infant. Raising a Sensory Smart Child gives ideas for toddlers and preschoolers.
  • That is really good advice I think - the two often go together but only the hypersensitivities matter at this point.
  • Organize some resources so that you can get a good nap in every day, as you're going to need to catch up on sleep.
  • I can't repeat this enough.
  • Try really hard not to laugh at your doctors!

Just out of interest - did they maybe come up with this because someone mentioned giftedness running in your family? I still can't fathom how anyone could make this up....


 

 


Edited by Tigerle - 11/14/11 at 3:58pm
post #37 of 98
Thread Starter 

I guess you misunderstood or I was not clear, we were not kept there for a week for dehydration. He has been refusing to nurse which led to 2 episodes of dehydration leading to hospital visits. This visit, they hydrated him but wanted to keep him to see what the refusal to feed was all about. Like I said before, the first doc was saying we cannot send u home without a solution as syringe feeding for the forseeable future is not how feeding should be, so they were ruling physical causes out. We did get sent home with no solution and still resorting to syringe feeding cup feeding etc...

post #38 of 98
Thread Starter 

I guess you misunderstood or I was not clear, we were not kept there for a week for dehydration. He has been refusing to nurse which led to 2 episodes of dehydration leading to hospital visits. This visit, they hydrated him but wanted to keep him to see what the refusal to feed was all about. Like I said before, the first doc was saying we cannot send u home without a solution as syringe feeding for the forseeable future is not how feeding should be, so they were ruling physical causes out. We did get sent home with no solution and still resorting to syringe feeding cup feeding etc...

post #39 of 98
Thread Starter 

Can you tell me more about what you mean about sensory work?  

The outings are terrible, someone mentioned nursing in public, he did so well as a newborn but now forget it, our outings are limited to doctor visits or early am once he has had a good feed at the end of the night otherwise it is a no go.

I never mentioned naything about giftedness running in the family, they came to that on their own. The one ped spent 2.5 hours in our room just observing him play, do his shananigans (is that how it is spelled?) that he does and his behaviour when offered to nurse. He was hungry, it had been 6 hours since he had last fed and still he screamed bloody murder when i tried to nurse him.

I don't know where to go from here, i was hoping for a solution any sort of solution for the feeding issue. LLL leader is in touch daily and we have tried everything you can imagine, all would work but only briefly nad then at the next feeding it is square one all over again.

post #40 of 98

Syringe feeding at home really is preferable to a prolonged stay in the hospital.  Everyone at the hospital tries to keep everything clean, calm, and pleasant, but the risks of a prolonged hospital stay (iatrogenic infection, family disruption, potential exposure to medical errors, parental stress over work and finances, isolation, I could go on and on) are dramatically greater than the potential benefits for a baby with a feeding issue that can be addressed at home.  

 

If you have to use a different strategy every feeding, that's what you have to do.  Chances are, this is a phase and it will pass.  Your ds has just hit some milestones that let him see a little more of the world, and it's a wild time for him.  He wasn't always this way and he won't be this way forever.  In a few more weeks, he will have adapted to his new abilities and he'll settle down.  Meanwhile, it sounds like he's going to be a crazy baby and nurse at night.  You can try to address the sensory stuff - I looked into it for my dd who is a gross motor sensory seeker, and I found that babies like proprioreceptive stimulation.  Swaddling and massage might help your ds relax so he can nurse.  Limiting sensory input when you want him to focus is also a good idea.  I would hesitate to introduce solids to a baby this young who sometimes seems to choke on nothing.  Remember, as long as he's active, everything is fine (and when he's not active, offer to nurse).  

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