gifted infants? myth or fact. Advice anyone - Page 3

[Grace and Granola]

It sounds like there are two separate issues, one, you may have a gifted child and two, you are concerned about his feeding pattern.  I think trying to correlate the two is what is throwing people off.  And I realize that you did not do this on your own, but that some doctors seemed to have done this for you.   I wanted to chime in because I was also told when I was at a lactation consultant's office, that my first son was possibly "neurologically advanced." Gifted.  My LC said that there had been a study that showed that babies who arch their backs away from the breast while nursing could be gifted.  Yes, it sounded odd, but yes it also stuck in my mind and intrigued me.  However, the LC did not cast me off and say that was the reason, so there, we're done, good luck!  She helped me come up with a solution. So, shame on the doctors who have left you floundering with no answers.

Of course I was also intrigued by the possibility of having an advanced child...he was my firstborn and what great news that was!  But, know this now, you do open yourself up to snarky comments if you EVER say you think your child is gifted, but I understand why you mention it and why you are interested in discussing it. Here are my two cents on both matters:

Gifted....maybe, probably? but at this moment it doesn't matter.  Knowing that your child is gifted doesn't help you feed him :)   Nurture and teach your child as he leads you.  Knowing or not knowing if he is gifted doesn't change anything in your life until you are considering schooling.

Feeding.... I'm glad to see someone finally brought up Reverse Cycling.  Read about it and see if you can gather some insight  http://www.kellymom.com/bf/normal/reverse-cycling.html

Hang in there!  It will only get easier as he continues to grow and develop.

PS> wouldn't this mama be better served in the breastfeeding board?  seems like a nursing issue more than a gifted issue to me.

[joensally]

I'm glad sensory issues have been brought up.  Novicemom, the resources I'm going to link for you refer to Sensory Processing Disorder (SPD), and I'm not suggesting that you should be alarmed about this.  There just may be some good strategies in there for you and your child.

Here's a checklist for sensory processing disorder for infants/toddlers:

http://www.sensory-processing-disorder.com/SPD-symptom-checklist-for-infants-and-toddlers.html

http://www.new-vis.com/fym/papers/p-feed4.htm

My son has SPD and it certainly affected early feeding.  What did the OT say when they saw your son?

[joensally]

Originally Posted by Grace and Granola 

It sounds like there are two separate issues, one, you may have a gifted child and two, you are concerned about his feeding pattern.  I think trying to correlate the two is what is throwing people off.  And I realize that you did not do this on your own, but that some doctors seemed to have done this for you.   I wanted to chime in because I was also told when I was at a lactation consultant's office, that my first son was possibly "neurologically advanced." Gifted.  My LC said that there had been a study that showed that babies who arch their backs away from the breast while nursing could be gifted.  Yes, it sounded odd, but yes it also stuck in my mind and intrigued me.  However, the LC did not cast me off and say that was the reason, so there, we're done, good luck!  She helped me come up with a solution. So, shame on the doctors who have left you floundering with no answers.

Ok, I'm going to totally need a link for that.    I call BS on the LC's claim (but I've been wrong many a time before).  The logistics that would be involved in tracking and controlling for this would be a nightmare.

[UpToSomeGood]

Originally Posted by Grace and Granola 

It sounds like there are two separate issues, one, you may have a gifted child and two, you are concerned about his feeding pattern.  I think trying to correlate the two is what is throwing people off.  And I realize that you did not do this on your own, but that some doctors seemed to have done this for you.

Er, no.  No doctor in the universe ever diagnosed a newborn as "profoundly gifted" as claimed by the OP in her very first post here, and certainly not on the basis of a refusal to feed; and if anyone were so spaced-out on crystals and woo as to make such a ridiculous claim, it wouldn't be an older doctor as she claims.  And people duped by silly lactation consultants to the contrary, one can no more diagnose giftedness by the arching back of a nursing baby than one can using conventional milestones.

But there are exceptions to every rule, of course.  I heard from my barber's sister's friend that her friend had a gifted fetus.  Apparently they knew when the little zygote delayed division, and only proceeded when they turned off the Mozart playing in the house.  The mommy didn't have test results or any sort of evidence, but when she relayed her feelings that this had certainly happened, her chiropractor diagnosed exceptional to profound giftedness on the spot.

[pianojazzgirl]

OP - my dd was MUCH like that at the same age as your ds!  She was an extremely distracted nurser at that age.  It was between 2-3 months of age that I could only nurse her in a darkened room.  She absolutely would not nurse if there was even a smidgen of distraction.  Often going in a darkened room was not enough to get her to nurse.  At one point (maybe a bit older than that?  It got worse before it got better) every time I nursed her during the day I had to go in the dark washroom with the bathtub running (soothing water sounds) to get her to nurse.  This would be after hours and hours of refusing to nurse.  And it still didn't work much of the time. 

At the same time I was a regular on a different forum (not MDC) and there was a mom there who's baby Would Not Nurse during the day.  Period.  Just like your ds.  He only ate *at night* while sleeping.  He did not sleep during the day.  It was just like what you describe!!!  I remember so well because we were going through similar things, only worse for her (my dd did take one nap during the day and so at least I could always get her to nurse then... plus the dark room, or bathroom trick worked some of the time).

The good news: both kids turned out just fine!  With our hard and tiring (through-the-night) work they got enough breastmilk to thrive.

Good luck mama.  I know it is stressful, but it sounds like your ds *is* doing well.  And I promise it will get better.  It is much less stressful once they accept solids.

[cloudbutterfly]

I had a somewhat similar experience with my DS when he was tiny (for what it's worth, he was also an unusually alert, early communicator with a low sleep need; I'm guessing he'll turn out to be gifted given that I was and my husband probably was, too).  I think he was about two and a half months old when he started refusing to nurse.  I ended up getting mastitis when he went for a particularly long stretch, which then made him want to nurse less, which made me worse...that was a rough week.  And then I spent months after that obsessing about how to get breastmilk into him.  He'd started refusing the bottle at about 7 weeks, and I never was able to get him to take it again.  I think at about 6 months old things started to get better.  Now, at two years old, I'm not sure how I'll ever get him to wean...he's a breastfeeding enthusiast!

I tried everything to get him to nurse more.  Every different position, every tactic I read about.  Things would help for a while, then wear off, and I'd have to find something new.  It sucked. But, like you, I managed to get enough breastmilk in him for him to thrive.  I had a very chubby six month old, considering where he started out!  I wish I had better advice than "just keep with it" and continue to be persistant...well, I do have the observation that I was overly worked up about it, in retrospect.  We had a rough start with breastfeeding, so I always felt I was just on the edge of "failure" at it at all times, so that wasn't a helpful state of mind to be in when this hit.  At some point late in this ordeal, he started this thing where would take one breast, but not the other until the next feeding.  I freaked out for a month (and ruined Mother's Day for the grandmas not to mention myself) before I realized he didn't need both in one feeding any more.  He really was probably breastfeeding quite well at that point, I just was too stressed out about it from previous problems to notice.  It didn't help that our mattress is not one I feel comfortable cosleeping with a very young baby on, so I'd get up and have to stay awake until he was done and I could put him back in the cosleeper.  And sleep deprivation is never helpful.

If I could go back and do that period over again, I would've kept up my efforts, but forced myself to realize my kid was fine.  Hard to get food into, but doing great.  And then I would have found more of those joyful moments I treasure so much.  Really, it was a beautiful time even with the stress, and over so fast.

Anyway, I couldn't read this and remember that time and how hard it was without posting.  Take care.

[Tigerle]

Originally Posted by UpToSomeGood 

Er, no.  No doctor in the universe ever diagnosed a newborn as "profoundly gifted" as claimed by the OP in her very first post here, and certainly not on the basis of a refusal to feed; and if anyone were so spaced-out on crystals and woo as to make such a ridiculous claim, it wouldn't be an older doctor as she claims. 

Actually, we get those stories here quite a lot. Nurses diagnosing (actual) newborns as gifted on the first days of their lives because they can hold up their heads and are unusually alert, doctors who diagnose three-months-olds (like the OP's child) on the basis of their milestones, peds who tell mothers of one-year-olds that their child will never be able to go to a regular school and to find a specialized program asap. And those moms come here half-delighted half-panicky and ask "can they really tell?" And people here will reassure them and tell them to hold their deposits and bring them down to earth - gently.  They might all be lying of course, who can tell? I certainly can't. But this has been a really interesting discussion and if the OP isn't the sleep-deprived mom with the reverse-cycling infant and the useless doctors someone else one day will be and will find most of the posts here helpful and kind.

Yes, it's ridiculous and unconsciounable of doctors to send someone home with "profoundly gifted" as an explanation as opposed to "hypersensitive", "highly distractible" and " reverse cycling" which would actually point to helpful strategies. But you would be surprised at the crap doctors come up with when they are faced with a problem they're really stumped by and a patient (or patient's mom) like me who is really insistent and wants an answer. It happens!

And I am going to say it once more and then I am just going to ignore further comments like this, and I am not going to say this for the sake of the OP who may or may not be laughing their head off at me, but for the sake ot this forum:

PtGC should be the place where people can write a post talking about their child and using the word "gifted" in the same sentence without being exposed to disbelief and snark right away.

And now I'll get off my soap box. Thank you for listening.

[UpToSomeGood]

No, you've never gotten a story like this one. No OB will "diagnose" a child as profoundly gifted to explain anything, much less a refusal to eat. In fact that term seems not to be known to most educators. There are probably more hopeful/competitive mommies who use it than professionals dealing with giftedness these days, unfortunately, but old school doctors using that term in a diagnosis? Nope.

[wishin'&hopin']

Okay, so our son (19 months now) was a terrible sleeper--for a very long time.  And a friend, who happens to be a physician, told us that it was probably because he was very smart (this was at about 3 months old)!  It was totally meant to make us feel better about our sleep deprivation--and it did, LOL!  

Those early months can be so rough--and I think trying to find reasons, even if they are rather absurd (just as I think my son being unable to sleep being because of any innate intelligence on his part) can be a comfort!

[Novicemama]

Thank you Tigerle once again. Hypersensitive, distractible, reverse cycling, these are things i can work with, thank you. I obviously never said a thing about gifted to anyone, which is why posting anonymously is what i am doing about what i was told. I had tried breastfeeding forums but got all the answers aboout things i had been doing: laid back, rock while you nurse, bounce, try this or that position, etc... he won't take bottles so taht doesn't help me any. thank you for the links posted, i will be looking at them. in retrospect, i shouldn't have delved into the details of the situation i should have just asked a broad question, but yes i am looking for an answer for our situation and on how to make it somewhat easier. thank you to those who shared their stories, it is reassuring to know that it will go away. As a new mom, i know i am getting anxious about this but i feel it is my job to keep him warm, dry, comfortable, safe and well fed, in addition to loving and nurtut=ring the little man, so when i find i am struggling with meeting a basic need of his it certainly does not feel good, and it shatters any confidence i had built in my mothering skills. I mean he cues that he is hungry, i try to feed, he cries and cries. i stop offering, he can be distracted but he is still hungry so he is fussy and yet still won't eat, this can go on for hours. the gifted thing does not matter at all, but it was what they said and when i looked into it got no answer to my current concern: feeding the little man.  

[purslaine]

Originally Posted by Novicemama 

As a new mom, i know i am getting anxious about this but i feel it is my job to keep him warm, dry, comfortable, safe and well fed, in addition to loving and nurtut=ring the little man, so when i find i am struggling with meeting a basic need of his it certainly does not feel good, and it shatters any confidence i had built in my mothering skills. 

don't beat yourself up - babies can be hard.

It sounds like you are doing a good job - he is active, he is gaining weight.  When he seems dehydrated - you take him to emergency. You are connecting to people online and in real life to get help with his feeding issues.  Hang in there!  

[ollyoxenfree]

Originally Posted by Tigerle 

Actually, we get those stories here quite a lot. Nurses diagnosing (actual) newborns as gifted on the first days of their lives because they can hold up their heads and are unusually alert, doctors who diagnose three-months-olds (like the OP's child) on the basis of their milestones, peds who tell mothers of one-year-olds that their child will never be able to go to a regular school and to find a specialized program asap. And those moms come here half-delighted half-panicky and ask "can they really tell?" And people here will reassure them and tell them to hold their deposits and bring them down to earth - gently.  They might all be lying of course, who can tell? I certainly can't. But this has been a really interesting discussion and if the OP isn't the sleep-deprived mom with the reverse-cycling infant and the useless doctors someone else one day will be and will find most of the posts here helpful and kind.

Yes, it's ridiculous and unconsciounable of doctors to send someone home with "profoundly gifted" as an explanation as opposed to "hypersensitive", "highly distractible" and " reverse cycling" which would actually point to helpful strategies. But you would be surprised at the crap doctors come up with when they are faced with a problem they're really stumped by and a patient (or patient's mom) like me who is really insistent and wants an answer. It happens!

And I am going to say it once more and then I am just going to ignore further comments like this, and I am not going to say this for the sake of the OP who may or may not be laughing their head off at me, but for the sake ot this forum:

PtGC should be the place where people can write a post talking about their child and using the word "gifted" in the same sentence without being exposed to disbelief and snark right away.

And now I'll get off my soap box. Thank you for listening.

Well said. 

I don't know if the OP is bona fide, but in case it is, there has been some good advice in this thread on coping with a distractable, sensitive, reverse cycling infant. Best wishes to the little one. 

[JollyGG]

Another mother of a reverse cycler here. My youngest just plain would not eat at daycare. It was so ridiculous that I finally stopped pumping at 6 months because she wasn't eating it anyway. This after months of the sitter trying to coax feedings into her. Between all that I had pumped and the small amounts she was eating she made the milk in the freezer last until her 1st birthday. We did find that by putting her milk in the smallest bottle we could find made it so that she could hold it herself. With that she would eat a few ounces a day at the sitter. Then she nursed all night long. She absolutely could not nurse in public.

Even with all of this she was above the 90th percentile for weight. It's just how it worked out for us and she's now a happy healthy 5 year old.

We currently have no clue if she is gifted or not. She's in Kindergarten and it's an appropriate learning environment for her. Her older brother is gifted so I wouldn't be surprised to discover she is too, but right now she's really not significantly ahead of where you would expect a typical 5 year old to be.

I have seen unusually alert young children who I wondered if would be found gifted later in life. I don't consider unusually alert, or unusually curious necessary a sign of giftedness, but more a hint that it might be possible.

[crunchy_mommy]

Is there any chance he has something like silent reflux or allergies? Something that's making it painful for him to eat? How about a less-obvious tongue tie or something? Has his latch been well-evaluated? Is he teething? Does he just need to be laying down quietly in the dark to nurse, or does he need to be actually sleeping?

[KCMichigan]

Originally Posted by JollyGG 

I have seen unusually alert young children who I wondered if would be found gifted later in life. I don't consider unusually alert, or unusually curious necessary a sign of giftedness, but more a hint that it might be possible.

I would ditto this.

I have twins-- one was a very alert baby and the other was not. Same with the eating and sleeping (one slept a lot the other did not). BOTH had feeding disorders (but they were premature and that is thought to be the reason) but different ones. It was put down to personality and their own unique needs/make-up as well as the concerns they had being premature (reflux like PP stated).

My kiddos are now 6 and their teachers have tossed around the idea that they are advanced for years now. But we have not tested them since we have had no need to at this point. They are both very bright now and were very very different as babies with different needs and routines. As babies, they presented completely opposite of each other- you just dont ever know!

Remember, if he is growing well and is alert, active--- he is doing well. Babies dont always eat, sleep, and do things on the schedule that we as adults think they should (or the books say they should). Each baby is unique and as babies, will do things on their own terms (sleep, eat).  You are doing a good job and meeting needs (food, sleep, etc) if your kiddos are growing and see happy and interactive. Enjoy your little one, they get bigger fast!

[Novicemama]

Thank you!

[Novicemama]

All were considered. I was convinced it is silent reflux, got my GP o give as script for zantac suspension we are trying nayway maybe i am right

[hildare]

edited. 

Edited by hildare - 11/16/11 at 6:10am

[pianojazzgirl]

Originally Posted by hildare 

dang.  i myself am pretty gifted but i eat all the time.  i wish i could cure myself.

Ha!

[Grace and Granola]

Originally Posted by joensally 

Ok, I'm going to totally need a link for that.    I call BS on the LC's claim (but I've been wrong many a time before).  The logistics that would be involved in tracking and controlling for this would be a nightmare.

If I had a link I would share it!  But this was six years ago, I was a new mom with a newborn who was losing weight....the LC's claim of my child being "neurologically advanced," though interesting and memorable, did not interest me enough to ask for her data to back up the claim!