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gifted infants? myth or fact. Advice anyone - Page 4

post #61 of 98

treeoflife3, Adaline'sMama, kitchensqueen, uptosomegood and hildare - your posts are inappropriate. If you suspect a poster to be a troll you should report your suspicion, not attack the member and accuse her of lying. Sarcastic comments that denigrate the OPs concerns are also inappropriate. Please edit your posts or you will lose your posting privileges.

 

 

post #62 of 98

I hate to ever seem criticize the moderators because I've been a moderator on a board much smaller than this, and it was really hard and time-consuming, but I am wondering about this recent change in the way MDC is moderated.  As recently as last year, moderation took place privately.  When a moderator asked me to edit a post I had made, the request would be made via the personal message function, or the mod would just remove the offending posts and carry out the edit themselves, with a note that they had done so.  I've now seen at least three threads where posters have been publicly called out by a moderator and told to edit their posts, two of those in the last week.  The old method had a much friendlier feel.  I hope whatever technical glitches have led to the adoption of this strategy can be resolved and we can return to the old way in the very near future. 

post #63 of 98

In answer to your thread title, it's not a myth or fact, it's fiction.  Get a second opinion if one is needed.

post #64 of 98

Can we drop the snark?

 

Just what if there's a mom somewhere in the world who's worried about whether her baby's getting enough to eat and now has this nastiness swirling in her mind?  I remember how raw those first months were, and I remember how panicked I felt when we had feeding troubles that didn't have a straightforward solution.  I also remember how horrible it was to spend an extended period of time in hospital with my baby. 

 

OP, I wish you the best of luck with your son.  I hope you figure out a way to make his feeding habits easier for all of you.

post #65 of 98
I had two distractable kids who did not like nursing all that much at times. I also had low supply and they had problematic palates and tongues--are you SURE about his palate and tongue being normal? Get someone who is REALLY good to check.

Anyway, one of my babies was skinny but okay, and the other ended up being failure to thrive. (He is now 3 and 85th% for height and weight!) We faced many difficulties. I will say that things got easier when he was old enough to take high-calorie solids. I don't care what anyone says--some babies don't like nursing all that much, probably because it is hard for them in some way that may be hard to perceive.
post #66 of 98
Thread Starter 

Hi,

I did get the answer I was looking for: gifted infant myth, not that it mattered anyway, but I am looking for an answer.

Joensally thank you.

The nasty remarks did bother me and were not what I expected, i thought this would be a "safe" place to suggest such madness, and believe me I know how ridonculous the story sounds, but i set myself up for it by asking for advice; after all everyone is entitled to their opinion so that's fine; i should have researched it first but i did not have the time, so i thought the quicker way would be to look for an easy answer (and perhaps some reassurance, man was I wrong!).

 

We will be at the MD on monday. We did have an ENT assess mouth and palate, he felt all was normal.

In the meantime, the distractible business is truly it i feel as he did well in the dark room yesterday with water running (basement laundry room) as someone had mentioned in another pots, it sure is better than dark room  and me shushing, nursing and shshing =mega dry mouth, and any feeding he is missing in daytime he is making up for at night. Whether it will become easier I don't know, but knowing that there are no physical causes for the feeding issue will put my mind at ease, as my LLL leader said "if there is a physical issue causing the nursing problem it will likely carry over to solids, so this needs to be resolved first".

 

Thanks again to all those who responded (snarky comment or not), and thanks especially to those who shared stories.

 

C

post #67 of 98

Hi Novicemama,

 

I'm brand new here and your thread just caught my eye. It's been very interesting! I've been going through a sort of similar phase with my son, my 2nd child. He is now 6,5 years old and indeed tested PG. Life with these kids sure is no picknick and I had forgotten how puzzling his infancy was! There are a lot of similarities to my son in this entire thread, which I'm not sure are all related to the problem. He somehow wasn't programmed to sleep and nursing him was soo complicated, to say the least. We had the refusal thing and being extremely distracted, but I also had a practical breastfeeding issue during that time which apperantly made it hard for him to nurse, maybe you recognise something like this from your past weeks? It's long, sorry!

 

He was awake for about 8 hours straight at 2 weeks and just wouldn't sleep during the day. Extremely alert from first moment on, lifting head up to look on his first day, smiling on 28th day and never stopped seeking and enjoying contact. At about 3 months he too began to refuse to drink, or he would just nurse for about a minute and stop, often after some choking noises! Then smile at me, giggle, look around and refuse to continue. Lots of arching his back away from me too, like planking all the way back. (me too, I'd love to know more about any link with giftedness??) All the interaction attempts were sweet, but I knew I'd be sitting there again in no time for another non-feed so I felt like putting a burbcloth over that smiley face so he could'nt see me and would drink on. Didn't help, only more fun.

This resulted in nursing again on his request within 2 hours, for less than a minute again. At the same time he started crying more during the day, getting more cramps and basicly acting like a very tired baby. But when I put him down to sleep he could scream for hours if I would have let him.

I was getting extremely tired myself and tried everything, sought help, tried to lengthen the time in between, but no one had heard of this.

I soon learned part of the problem was that I had too much milk, that started coming out with extreme power after some suckling. He basicly choked on the flood and stopped, resulting in an even much fuller breast the next feeding etc. And when he had stopped the worst hunger was over, so then the world was so much more interesting than food.

Would it be possible that after you have nursed a couple of times at night and much less often in the day, your breasts get fuller during the day, maybe causing the chocking noises when your reflex goes on? If it has been uncomfortable for him, that may cause the refusal. (They say that gifted babies give up quickly, when they see they have no success. Like when grabbing at something, they'll stop trying after a few attemps if their hand can't reach it, while other babies will keep trying)

For my son, it helped a bit when I let the first milk go in the sink until most of the pressure was off. This also helped with the tummy cramps and lenght between feeds, that were worsened because he only drank the sweeter first milk and not the fatter last milk. He just never got to that part.

At 5,5 months I taught him to sleep with the book from DR. Estivill, btw. Made all the difference! Turned out he became a much happier baby that actually loved to sleep and drink.

 

This somehow passed and then the next weird thing started, as it always will, with babies. In my experience, nothing will ever go by the book and provided you take good care of yourself and get help from friends and family, that's what makes it interesting and fun. It sure sounds like you are doing a great job. And gifted or not, I hope you will enjoy your little boy immensely.

 

All the best, M.

post #68 of 98

now i know you were for reals, i am sorry for the snark.

do you have a sound machine?  it sure beats doing all that shushing on your own.

post #69 of 98

By the way, why assume that giftedness (presumably in the cognitive domain) would come along with meeting physical milestones largely dependent on core strength (like sitting up, etc) early? Early sitting/walking, etc are not hallmarks of "giftedness".

 

post #70 of 98
Thread Starter 

Hi Mamira.

 

Thank you for the post, it helped me feel sane. I do have a strong let down and over supply, LC figured out from all the gulping and choking he was doing in addition to (sorry for this!) stool colours, green frothy, several a day causing cramping, so when at 5 weeks he started to refuse the one breast, I thought it was because he was associating the choking with the drinking, so my milk supply went down in that one as he refused it for several weeks, but due to nursing from only one side, milk supply in that one increased, causing a strong let down. causing oversupply, basically back to the initial problem, so then at 8 weeks +3 days he started totally refusing. Since I had never given him a bottle or soother, he refused that as well on days where I could not get him to nurse, then add the distractability on top of all that and my whole nursing experience has been a nightmare. For weeks it seems all I do is try to get him to nurse. I did initially start to think maybe I am misreading his cues and offering way too frequently so I started watching the clock to make sure it was more than 2 hours, but that made no difference. He nurses only when asleep, and since he does not sleep all day, he does not nurse. I could get him for a while to nurse if he was upright and I was walking the floor, then that stopped working. i could get him to nurse if he was lying down and i sort of leaned over him (cow position) then that stopped working. I tried so mnay positions, locations, techniques and one after another they all started to fail. I rocked for hours to get him to doze off so i can nurse in teh day, sometimes it worked and some days it was impossible to get him to stop. It got harder and harder so we got to spoon, cup, syringe feeding, etc.. I felt like I was doing something wrong, like I was not getting what he needs, it is so frustrating to have the baby cry only when i offered to feed him whether it had been 2 hours or 10 hours since he last fed, and oh yeah arching back and pushing me away, he has now gotten to coughing as soon as he sees my breast, but turn him to the breast with my shirt on no issues, he is happy to nuzzle but lift shirt up, screaming, crying, coughing. Then we had horrible days where he would take nothing, so have no output, so dehydrated so emerg. I was back and forth to the doctors and then this was our recent visit. The past 2 days, dark room has been working well, much less crying thank heavens. I got all fingers and toes crossed that this continues to work I don;t care if I never leave the house again, so long as he is healthy and happy. the oversupply issue has somewhat corrected itself due tot eh refusal my milk supply went down, i have more production on one side than the other thanks to the little man, evidently it would mean lopsided ladies later on. Ah well. 

post #71 of 98

how are his stools now?

 

did you try eliminating dairy?  Treatment for reflux?

post #72 of 98
We had severe oversupply that only started improving when I consistently went 12 hours a day nursing only on one side. Eventually I started using the fuller side during the day and the less-full side all night. That seemed to help correct things some but apparently I still had too much (and didn't even really realize it). The thing that totally fixed it was eliminating wheat from my diet (this didn't happened 'til he was 14mos!) It seems like I was having a reaction to wheat and the same reaction was somehow causing my oversupply. I later found out there are studies linking celiac disease with elevated prolactin levels. When I tried eating a little wheat a couple of times, my oversupply returned withing 12 hours and DS was puking up large amounts of excess milk.

I know it's kind of out there and the way DS reacted was basically the opposite of how your DS is (he nursed many many times an hour), but I think that is common with oversupply (they either nurse excessively or not enough). Just thought I'd throw it out there in case you hadn't tried it yet, eliminating wheat was not fun but it definitely made a huge positive difference for us and was the only thing that fixed my oversupply completely! I could see how your problems might be caused or at least exacerbated by oversupply... Have you tried different feeding positions, especially reclining ones?

But that still doesn't explain why he won't take anything from a cup or bottle...
post #73 of 98

Many children aren't developmentally ready for a cup at the OP's child's age, and a lot of exclusively breastfed kids are bottle-resistant..

post #74 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by stik View Post

Many children aren't developmentally ready for a cup at the OP's child's age, and a lot of exclusively breastfed kids are bottle-resistant..



It might be worth a shot, though.  We experimented with cup feeding my son when he had difficulty latching on.

 

If you can express some breastmilk, he might be able to take it with a cup.  

 

Here is a link  http://www.askdrsears.com/topics/breastfeeding/faqs/alternatives-bottles

 

if you google "cup feeding an infant" there is lots of info.

 

It would not be my first line of defence (the dark room seems to be working for you - yeah!) but I would keep it as a trick up my sleeve if he  goes down the path of not eating to the point of worrying about dehydration again.

 

post #75 of 98
My DS was cup-fed occasionally when he was an infant. We put pumped milk in a shot glass and DH fed it to him. And I know some EBF babies are bottle-resistant. Just was mentioning that oversupply doesn't necessarily explain everything & probably wouldn't be a "magic cure" but she might at least see some improvement if she could resolve the supply issues.
post #76 of 98

I don't know if it will help OP or not.  However, we have had "food issues" with my oldest child (who is gifted).  She started off with reflux that was severe enough to make her esophagus raw.  We treated with prescription meds and the acid was neutralized so while she still spewed everywhere, her throat healed and she was fine.  She always liked nursing, but didn't nap until she was 7 or 8 months old.  We blamed the meds, though that isn't a listed side effect.  But she did start napping when she went off them.  However, she was much more mobile and explorative at that time too so she may have worn herself out.  She never slept well at night. 

 

As a young child she had a hard time going to bed at night.  Her brain doesn't turn off -- that is just how we phrase it (I have the same problem).  Throughout her whole life, regular food has been a challenge.  Taste/texture and whatever else--she is very sensitive and really would rather go hungry vs eat something that she doesn't want.  We know this for a FACT.  The whole "they will eat when they are hungry enough" really doesn't apply to my dd if her food choice happens to be eggs, milk, sandwiches, home made soup, casseroles, and a pile more foods.  

 

However (here might be the helpful part).  She was able to use a cup fairly early (4 months or so)--some are pretty lightweight.  To teach the cup, we first removed the part that makes it spill proof.  Then, once she figured out that there was something to drink in there, we put that part in again.  She also loved to feed herself.  I learned from her to skip the spoon feeding.  Plan for a mess and let them at it.  We got a "safety feeder" and put fruit in it--it looks like a giant mesh binky.  She loved fruit and she would be able to chomp on it and look around at the same time.  We also loved it for teething times--a little crushed ice with the fruit.  I didn't realize how bothersome food would be when she was younger because we generally fed single foods (not mixed) and while she never would touch an egg or cow's milk or allow us to put any form of "mush" in her (oatmeal, rice cereal, etc)--she ate lots of fruits/veggies.  She still does like her fruit and veggies.  

 

So, assuming it is a distractability thing, I say to relax.  Every month will be easier because he will be able to eat in more ways and be able to stay engaged while eating.  

 

Good luck.

 

Amy

post #77 of 98

Since I've had early distracted children (WAY earlier than 4 months), I can understand, whether or not your child is meeting dev. markers early.

 

I have had to nurse my 1 and 2 month old children in ONE position, in a darkened room, sitting up day and night.  Didn't also have to deal with a strike; but yes, the distraction.

 

One thing I haven't seen here is something my friend did because her children really never took naps.  Assuming you are currently a SAHP, plan to be in bed for 12 hours.  Whether awake or sleeping, stay in bed for that 12 hours.  It can help a lot.  If you have to work, basically come home from work and go to bed.  Stay in bed until you have to get out.

 

My son in particular would only nurse in one place for 4 months, and only lying down.  His older sister would only nurse in one place, and sitting up, EVER.

 

Get stacks of books to read, as you may not be able to watch TV.

post #78 of 98

 

I don't know if it will help OP or not.  However, we have had "food issues" with my oldest child (who is gifted).  She started off with reflux that was severe enough to make her esophagus raw.  We treated with prescription meds and the acid was neutralized so while she still spewed everywhere, her throat healed and she was fine.  She always liked nursing, but didn't nap until she was 7 or 8 months old.  We blamed the meds, though that isn't a listed side effect.  But she did start napping when she went off them.  However, she was much more mobile and explorative at that time too so she may have worn herself out.  She never slept well at night. 

 

As a young child she had a hard time going to bed at night.  Her brain doesn't turn off -- that is just how we phrase it (I have the same problem).  Throughout her whole life, regular food has been a challenge.  Taste/texture and whatever else--she is very sensitive and really would rather go hungry vs eat something that she doesn't want.  We know this for a FACT.  The whole "they will eat when they are hungry enough" really doesn't apply to my dd if her food choice happens to be eggs, milk, sandwiches, home made soup, casseroles, and a pile more foods.  

 

However (here might be the helpful part).  She was able to use a cup fairly early (4 months or so)--some are pretty lightweight.  To teach the cup, we first removed the part that makes it spill proof.  Then, once she figured out that there was something to drink in there, we put that part in again.  She also loved to feed herself.  I learned from her to skip the spoon feeding.  Plan for a mess and let them at it.  We got a "safety feeder" and put fruit in it--it looks like a giant mesh binky.  She loved fruit and she would be able to chomp on it and look around at the same time.  We also loved it for teething times--a little crushed ice with the fruit.  I didn't realize how bothersome food would be when she was younger because we generally fed single foods (not mixed) and while she never would touch an egg or cow's milk or allow us to put any form of "mush" in her (oatmeal, rice cereal, etc)--she ate lots of fruits/veggies.  She still does like her fruit and veggies.  

 

So, assuming it is a distractability thing, I say to relax.  Every month will be easier because he will be able to eat in more ways and be able to stay engaged while eating.  

 

Good luck.

 

Amy

 

Oh, yeah! I always wondered if that was because of a separate condition such as sensory dysfunction disorder, or just heightened sensitivity.

post #79 of 98

OP,

 

Coming to this thread late - was curious how it got to 4 pages, haha. Anyway, ignore the snarkiness. It was uncalled for.

 

My ds2 was as you described your child. I had a really hard time with him and I was so so tired. My first had been so easy (at least until he turned three plus) I was totally not prepared. He was the typical alert interactive baby who rather look at pretty wallpapers than nurse and I would have to give him a tour of the nursing room before he would actually get down to business. He could recognise his environment at an early age and would only sleep at home at night.   

 

As with your child, he nursed through the night.  I tried to switch the cycle back because I had to look after ds1 during the day but it was near impossible. It took months before I figured out the reason - he has a severe dustmite allergy and the only way he could sleep was to nurse through the night in order to ignore the discomfort. He did somehow thrive - until he transited to solids and he just stopped growing and his eczema came out full force - he also has food allergies that gave him constantly runny stools. Right now he's sleeping in the living room because I had to carry him out to tend to his broken skin in the middle of the night so as not to wake up ds1. 

 

Sometimes it takes time to understand the child's behaviour. It could be temperament, it could be physical. I believe it's your mommy's instinct screaming at you that something is not quite right. It is unusual for a child to deny feeding to the point of dehydration. There's no need to apologise for it. Keep track of poo patterns, any unusual rashes, excessive rubbing at certain times or in certain environments - these will give you a clue if there is an allergy.

 

Another possibility I can think of is sensory dysfunction which has already been mentioned. My elder has it and when he was younger, he was not attuned to his body needs. Even now, if I do not remind him to drink, he can go for hours without a drop. 

 

ps you may want to cross-post this at the food allergies forum. I think your story will find resonance there.  


Edited by deminc - 12/2/11 at 6:53pm
post #80 of 98
Thread Starter 

Hello.

 

Things continue to be difficult, very poor sleep and worse eating, no dehydration. I have hime using the sippy cup but after a few sips he just plays with it and won't continue to drink. He is taking the bulk of his meals at night, this evening was particulary difficult. I have been trying to feed him since 1900 it is now 2200 and he just finally slept and nursed briefly. Firt thing I did was come to see if I could find anything helpful here. He does have eczema and it is quite bad these days, I don't know what else to use to keep his skin well moisturized (what do you use deminc?) it is sooooooooooooo dry, the poor guy tries to scratch all the time i can see the distress! Supply issue has resolved as he is nursing so little and I was only pumping enough to relieve engorgement, am no longer pumping now. I have no idea what this is and how to resolve it, no one gets it, and I don't either. I wish that only one feeding would go smoothly but no, it is all tears and screaming or it is a nibble here and there taking hours nad basically never completing a full feeding until nighttime. While we play, i can lean close to him and sometimes he will latch on suck for  aminute or so then let go, i will continue to try while I change him, jsut always offerering non-chalantly but we have not sat down for a dcent feeding in almost over 2 months now, I wonder if i will ever know what a normal feeding that does not involve bouncing, darkness, shushing, me leaning over him, a necklace or a weird awkard contortionist position!!!!! 

 

Anyway, tonight instead of 2 hours of sleep I will probably get 20 minutesas usually he is asleep for the night by 2000.

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