Milwulkees awful anti cosleeping ad - Page 2

[APToddlerMama]

Originally Posted by BubblingBrooks 

My reality is none of the above. Except for the bed sharing during the early months of our babies life.

Again, they should not have played the SIDS card. It is unbelievably misleading.

Okay.  So that may be fine for your culture and your community, but who are you (collective you, not specifically you OP) to say that bedsharing is the right thing for a community plagued by addiction, poverty, lack of access to health care/breastfeeding support, etc?  In the end, every parent wants to wake up to a living baby, even if that parent happens to struggle with addiction or does not have a safe place to bedshare.  So what may be right for a significant portion of your community may not be right for a significant portion of another community. 

And "playing the SIDS card"?  Please.  I don't think anyone is trying to be misleading.  Could they have used the word "suffocation" instead?  Yes.  But does it really matter?  Probably just to bedsharing purists who don't want to be lumped into some campaign going on in some other community that really doesn't affect them whatsoever.  If a person outside of the community cannot see that there can be a benefit to  doing something differently in a community with a different set of needs, that is too bad.  And to get on one's high horse preaching about how appalling the campaign is ignores the needs of a specific community.

[APToddlerMama]

Originally Posted by Adaline'sMama 


To be fair, this doesnt even remotely apply to some of the people concerned about this ad. Honestly, this ad has been all over facebook and I have had to defend cosleeping to several of my family members and middle class, faux hippy friends. Ive seen several people put it up on their facebooks and blogs with comments like "Hello! This is why cribs were invented..." or "I breastfed my kid for two years and never ever let him sleep in our bed even though it would have been more convenient. Safety first!" No, this is why drug and alcohol intervention programs were invented.
I understand that Milwaukee has a ridiculously high rate of infant death, but this ad has gone far and wide and at this point, it is all over the country on social media form. And it sucks. Ill bet it wont really help the death rate that much, and there will be a lot of terrified first time moms who are already having to defend their decision to co sleep to their husband or other family members. All Im saying is, I dont think the target audience is the one that is going to be the most affected by this ad.

Milwaukee has been doing this campaign for several years with absolutely no national attention. Their old billboards featured the head board of the family bed as a grave stone for babies.  The national attention is brand new.  The ad targets Milwaukee.  I truly believe it will save lives in Milwaukee.  To put that priority under the priority of you or I not to be bothered by friends, family, or people on FB questioning our choices seems unfair to parents for whom this campaign can benefit.  I don't have a problem educating people about safe bed-sharing.  In fact, I am happy that the media attention from things like this gives me an opportunity to explain how bedsharing can be safe and can work out.  

[BubblingBrooks]

Yes, it does matter. They should have used the word suffication, because it is not at all the same as SIDS.

A better Ad would have shown the baby with the real reason they are dying. Drugs and alcohol.
The campaign does not create a thought process of "if I abuse a substance and in the intoxicated state lay on a baby, I will kill that baby".
Instead, it states loud and clear that sleeping with the baby is the problem.
It is likely that education and good critical thinking skills are going to be lacking in the area targeted, so seeing through the Ad is not going to happen for most.

[APToddlerMama]

Originally Posted by BubblingBrooks 

Yes, it does matter. They should have used the word suffication, because it is not at all the same as SIDS.

A better Ad would have shown the baby with the real reason they are dying. Drugs and alcohol.
The campaign does not create a thought process of "if I abuse a substance and in the intoxicated state lay on a baby, I will kill that baby".
Instead, it states loud and clear that sleeping with the baby is the problem.
It is likely that education and good critical thinking skills are going to be lacking in the area targeted, so seeing through the Ad is not going to happen for most.

Well send them a letter then explaining the proper terminology.  I'm serious.  I doubt anyone would object to it. 

As to your second point, I think you are right about education.  To say that critical thinking skills are lacking in a community seems pretty bold and condescending.  However, if you do believe that, I would assume you would also believe the community members not to have the critical thinking skills nor education to be able to pick up on all the "rules" that make bedsharing safe. 

Not to mention, it is not just drugs and alcohol causing bedsharing deaths.  If it were, the campaign would probably target that.  There are a billion other factors including people other than mom bedsharing, low rates of breastfeeding, people not having safe sleeping surfaces and sleeping instead on couches, with numerous children in bed close to baby, etc. 

[Adaline'sMama]

Originally Posted by APToddlerMama 

Milwaukee has been doing this campaign for several years with absolutely no national attention. Their old billboards featured the head board of the family bed as a grave stone for babies.  The national attention is brand new.  The ad targets Milwaukee.  I truly believe it will save lives in Milwaukee.  To put that priority under the priority of you or I not to be bothered by friends, family, or people on FB questioning our choices seems unfair to parents for whom this campaign can benefit.  I don't have a problem educating people about safe bed-sharing.  In fact, I am happy that the media attention from things like this gives me an opportunity to explain how bedsharing can be safe and can work out.  

In 2009
50% of the infant deaths were due to complications after premature births.
20% are due to birth defects and their complications
and
20% died because of SIDS or an unsafe sleep environment


So, it seems to me that the MAJOR problem in Milwaukee is premature birth. WHY are all these babies being born prematurely? How much money are they spending to educate women on ways to help make sure their baby is born full term?

Note how many programs the city has for "Safe sleep" vs. how many programs the city has for education about drug, alcohol, and tobacco use during pregnancy.
http://city.milwaukee.gov/SafeSleep
http://city.milwaukee.gov/Prematurity.htm

Why is there now awareness campaign about the insanely high rate of premature births?
In Alabama, Louisiana, Mississippi, and District of Columbia the top priority for awareness has been smoking cessation and a focus on getting mother's prenatal care to prevent premature birth (the # 1 cause of infant death in all four locations.). Since this is the top cause of infant death in Miluakee, why do you think they are spending less time and money on prenatal awareness and smoking cessation than they are focusing on "Safe Sleep"? It just doesnt make the most sense.

[Partaria]

Originally Posted by APToddlerMama 

Plenty of bedsharing, elitist, middle class faux hippies love to scream about how awful these campaigns are but your reality isn't the reality of plenty of other parents living in Milwaukee and elsewhere.

But the billboard doesn't say "Hey Milwaukee parents who tend to smoke, drink, and do drugs: co-sleeping with that kind of lifestyle kills." It just says, basically "co-sleeping, in and of itself, kills."

And that's just not true.

I mean, why not have drunk driving prevention billboards that tell people that driving, in and of itself, is a horrible idea and no one should do it? Don't even bother to mention the alcohol.

Also, for the record, there are plenty of bedsharers out there who aren't elitist, middle class faux hippies who also love to scream about this.

[APToddlerMama]

Originally Posted by Adaline'sMama 
In 2009
50% of the infant deaths were due to complications after premature births.
20% are due to birth defects and their complications
and
20% died because of SIDS or an unsafe sleep environment
So, it seems to me that the MAJOR problem in Milwaukee is premature birth. WHY are all these babies being born prematurely? How much money are they spending to educate women on ways to help make sure their baby is born full term?
Note how many programs the city has for "Safe sleep" vs. how many programs the city has for education about drug, alcohol, and tobacco use during pregnancy.
http://city.milwaukee.gov/SafeSleep
http://city.milwaukee.gov/Prematurity.htm
Why is there now awareness campaign about the insanely high rate of premature births?
In Alabama, Louisiana, Mississippi, and District of Columbia the top priority for awareness has been smoking cessation and a focus on getting mother's prenatal care to prevent premature birth (the # 1 cause of infant death in all four locations.). Since this is the top cause of infant death in Miluakee, why do you think they are spending less time and money on prenatal awareness and smoking cessation than they are focusing on "Safe Sleep"? It just doesnt make the most sense.

Premature birth isn't a matter of educating women on ways to make sure their babies are born full term.  I've gone into preterm labor twice...at 35 weeks and 29 weeks.  I'm educated on preterm birth and educated in general.  There is very little information on why preterms births occur and how to prevent it.  It is a little insulting to suggest that those of us who have had premature babies could have prevented it if someone had just spent some money to educate us. 

That said, lack of prenatal care, stress, substance abuse, poor nutrition, poverty, etc., do contribute to preterm birth and I agree Milwaukee and other cities should focus on those factors as well.  Preterm birth is much more challenging to predict and prevent than unsafe bedsharing.  It is pretty clear what causes bedsharing deaths.  20% is no small number, especially considering 9 babies have already died in the city this year.  There are over 100 infant mortality initiatives in the city to try to decrease the infant mortality rate.  The anti-co-sleeping campaign is just one of them.  I honestly think it is pretty smart to use money that way.  If you can give someone a packnplay and an opportunity to choose to put their baby there instead of on the couch with three other kids or a drunk grandma, you can make a difference for a kid for about $25.  Dealing with preterm birth is a great goal, and I hope a lot of money is poured into more research and prevention of preterm birth.  I don't know why anyone would want to forget the other 20% of deaths in the city due to totally preventable causes. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by BubblingBrooks 

Yes, it does matter. They should have used the word suffication, because it is not at all the same as SIDS.

I took your word for it that they are using the word SIDS in the ads, but then I looked it up myself, and there is absolutely no mention of SIDS at all.  It says "Your baby sleeping with you can be just as dangerous (as sleeping with a knife...).  Babies can die while sleeping in adult beds."  It does not say SIDS.  And when you go to the City's website or the Health Depts website, they state specifically that the majority of the deaths are in unsafe sleeping environments and refer to it as Sudden Unexplained Death in Infancy, not SIDS.  Check your facts before you post that. What you quoted in your OP was from ABC, not the Health Department or city.  They state:

In Milwaukee around 20% of infant mortality is attributable to a combination of Sudden Infant Death Syndrome (SIDS),  and Sudden Unexplained Death in infancy (SUDI).  Of these deaths the majority die in an unsafe sleep environment.

The City of Milwaukee Health Department strongly advises parents NOT to share a bed with their infant. This is based on an American Academy of Pediatrics 2011 Policy Statement which states that the risk of SIDS has been shown to be reduced when the infant sleeps in the same room as the mother, but the AAP recommends that infants not share a bed with parents or anyone else, due to increased risk.  

Co-Sleeping Defined

The term “co-sleeping” can be confusing, as it is used both to refer to sharing a bed and sharing a room. To clarify the distinction, many pediatric experts now refer to “bed-sharing” (referring to a infant who is sleeping in the same bed, couch, or other surface where parents or others are sleeping), and “room-sharing” (referring to a infant who is sleeping in the parents’ room, but in their own crib or bassinet). 

[redbirdlady]

But the billboard doesn't say "Hey Milwaukee parents who tend to smoke, drink, and do drugs: co-sleeping with that kind of lifestyle kills." It just says, basically "co-sleeping, in and of itself, kills."

And that's just not true.

Exactly.

[APToddlerMama]

Okay, I am just about done, but I have to add....why not blame the AAP instead of people who believe everything the AAP has to say?  The city and health department are just following the AAP's guidelines as part of their strategy to improve outcomes for infants and children.  Honestly, that isn't that ridiculous of a plan.  Here at MDC we might think the AAP is full of crap, but the majority of people don't think so and I don't think there is anything sinister about a campaign that follows their advice in an effort to reduce infant mortality. 

[Adaline'sMama]

Originally Posted by APToddlerMama 

Premature birth isn't a matter of educating women on ways to make sure their babies are born full term. . 

Obviously.

However, since Milwaukee has a much higher infant death rate than most cities, and most of those deaths are due to complications with premature births, I think my point stands. Im sorry if I offended you. I only meant that I think education would decrease more number of deaths by educating women and with smoking cessation programs than with terrifying ad campaigns that will likely result in mothers all over the country not sleeping with their babies and possibly making nursing more difficult for them.

[APToddlerMama]

Originally Posted by Adaline'sMama 


Obviously.
However, since Milwaukee has a much higher infant death rate than most cities, and most of those deaths are due to complications with premature births, I think my point stands. Im sorry if I offended you. I only meant that I think education would decrease more number of deaths by educating women and with smoking cessation programs than with terrifying ad campaigns that will likely result in mothers all over the country not sleeping with their babies and possibly making nursing more difficult for them.

They have smoking cessation programs.  Like I said, there are over 100 initiatives in the city to reduce infant mortality rates.  I don't see a problem with an approach that targets multiple causes of infant deaths.  Smoking cessation programs are not going to save the lives of babies whose parents can't afford a packnplay and who end up sleeping in a recliner with a passed out dad.

[Imakcerka]

I don't know, if you can't handle the heavy responsibility of being healthy while you're carrying your baby.  Maybe you need someone to simply say it's best you don't cosleep either.  Sounds harsh but I've got family that act like you just can't get the trailer/ghetto outta them.  I got a cousin that would see a sign like that and probably put her 9th kid the only one she has with her right now in a pack n play after a night of coke and partying.  Because she honestly needs to be told.  No joke.  When she came to see me she had 7 kids already and she was in awe of the fact that I nursed my baby.  " I didn't know you could do that, you nasty "name", that baby is all over your titties".   "You know you got to feed that baby some real food soon she's gonna starve".  She wanted to hold her but then got bored of her and put her on the couch and got up to go make a phone call while her boyfriend at the time fell asleep on my couch and I was using the bathroom.  Baby rolled off... She had already had practice with 7... still didn't get it. 

Sometimes lack of education, a lifestyle and a disregard for the safety of a child needs to be shown in pictures and slowly!  I like to say I'll show you in constructions paper and crayons.  Just to be clear, I couldn't get mad at her for it.  baby was ok, startled but ok.  When she found out that the baby fell off the couch she blamed it on her sleeping boyfriend. 

[Adaline'sMama]

Yep. Ive been wrong all along. You should have to apply for a permit to breed.

[McGucks]

I wonder what parent offered their child up to be included in that add.  Not that it matters, it just occurred to me. 

I think APToddlerMama's perspective is both founded and interesting.  APTM is obviously knowledgeable about the community this ad targets and what has already been done in that area to decrease infant mortality.

As a PP said, I am afraid for the moms who are doing co-sleeping knowledgeably, carefully, and safely...and how some of those women's parters/DH's (and MILs!) will use the ad to support their arguments against co-sleeping.

I am glad again today that I do not and have never had a Facebook account.  An acquaintance told me that when some "data" came out against extended breastfeeding, she had over 30 "friends" slam her on Fb for EBFing.  I don't need that kind of judgment in my life, not from "friends" or enemies, thank you very much.

[Imakcerka]

Sometimes I think this is true.  Or atleast I feel this way when I read or see something that makes my stomach turn.  Especially with my family.  There are too many close family members that apparently missed the bus on parenting.  I think at one point my mom had 2 different sisters kids as fosters. 
 

Originally Posted by Adaline'sMama 

Yep. Ive been wrong all along. You should have to apply for a permit to breed.

[Arete]

Facebook "friends."  Ugh.  But I wholeheartedly agree with Partaria: drunk driving billboards need to start a new campaign.  "Driving anywhere, ever, under any circumstances, is exactly the same as riding a unicycle along a cliff edge."  If these women are as willfully ignorant as some are claiming, after 8 beers they sure as heck are not going to remember or care about this campaign.  And I would like to know, if it's a matter of education, poverty, etc, how billions of women in slums and mud huts from Uganda to Cambodia manage to co-sleep safely.  For that matter, how did our ancestors do it in the dim and distant past?

[TheDivineMrsM]

Originally Posted by BubblingBrooks 

Ain't that the truth!

If we had not co-slept, we the parents would not have got any sleep for the first few months.
 

Same here! We coslept for a few months, and it was the best thing for us. 

I saw this article and it made me crazy. Co sleeping is generally safe - and it's definitely safer than some of the other ways I've heard parents getting their baby to sleep. Ugh. 

[APToddlerMama]

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/news/134122838.html

Just an article from today I thought people might find interesting.  Apparently the 10th "unsafe sleep" death of the year in the city just occurred today.  They state that 7 infants were sleeping with an adult or other child and two were on unsafe surfaces or in unsafe positions.  The 10th one died from being given prescription drugs by the grandma and happened to be co-sleeping with her.  Interesting (and sad) article regardless of which "side" of the debate you're on. 

[Imakcerka]

Thanks for the link APToddlerMama

What happens to the parent or guardian at the time if a baby does die from their apparent sleeping conditions?  I recall a while back a bit of backlash over SIDS, I think they made a bunch of lifetime movies out of it as well.  Mothers smothering their infants and crying SIDS.  Was that just another way to frighten us?  Was stuff like that really rampant?   I think uneducated information based on opinion can be dangerous for all involved.  On one hand you have a mother who has just lost her baby to SIDS then a mother who just lost her baby to co sleeping... What should be done?  How can you view that in any other way if you are given so much information that damns the parent?  Or allows them to be let off with a reasonable explanation?

I don't think it's black and white.  Though the fear mongering is very distasteful!

[tntmom]

As to the point that Milwaukee has a high rate of infant deaths due to prematurity it could be attributed to the fact that Milwaukee is home to one of the largest Children's Hospitals in WI. So they get many babies from all over the state and occasionally even from different states. There are very few NICU's in the rest of the state that have the technology and space. With my first I was sent to Milwaukee and had my insurance not changed I would have been there for my second as well. Just food for thought.