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Visiting with DD's Birth Father - Page 3

post #41 of 57

Oh and to answer your question- I think just talking about it is so important. Working thru the hard parts.  In my home it was talked about in the unhealthy ways.... my mom was a drug addict and my parents indeed did feel I should be grateful I was raised by them. Which I am some of the time,,,, some of the time very much not so.  Its such a dual thing. 

And I think some birthfathers experience a profound loss too. Not all of course as not all birthmothers seem to- or they are so disconnected they can't handle it.... whatever it is.

From what I read about reunion sometimes the fathers were the ones to search, are more receptive to reunion and happy to again be a part of their childs life.

post #42 of 57
Thread Starter 

If I was afraid, we wouldn't be having visits. Right now, the expectation is that visits will be play dates and that physical contact will be limited and always be acceptable to DD.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emilie2 View Post

I get the setting of boundaries....  I just hope its done out of love and not out of fear.



 

post #43 of 57
Thread Starter 

There's a lot of tough stuff with my kids birth parents. Especially DS's birth father and DD's birth mother. Right now, we just don't talk about it. It's hard enough thinking the subjects of significant mental illness and domestic violence (both male and female.) They are going to be hard conversations to have and I'll do the best I can. It actually makes the developmental delays and alcoholism seem easy, in comparison.

 

I was at a workshop a long time ago (at my state's foster/adoptive care conference) and adoption was described as the least worst alternative for a child. I love my children more than anything. I'm grateful to have them in my life and I hope that they are grateful that they have me. As much as I love them, I wish they wouldn't have needed to be in foster care and be adopted. I wish they could have been born to parents who had the capacity to raise them. DS's birth mother is parenting his half-sister and seems to be doing ok.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emilie2 View Post

Oh and to answer your question- I think just talking about it is so important. Working thru the hard parts.  In my home it was talked about in the unhealthy ways.... my mom was a drug addict and my parents indeed did feel I should be grateful I was raised by them. Which I am some of the time,,,, some of the time very much not so.  Its such a dual thing. 

And I think some birthfathers experience a profound loss too. Not all of course as not all birthmothers seem to- or they are so disconnected they can't handle it.... whatever it is.

From what I read about reunion sometimes the fathers were the ones to search, are more receptive to reunion and happy to again be a part of their childs life.



 

post #44 of 57

I found out at 20 my bmom was a drug addict alcoholic and a tad bit mentally ill and it did not make me love her any less or want to know her any less.  I don't know when would have been the appropriate time to discuss those things... I know you will do it the best you can when the time is right in a way that preserves the good with the bad.

post #45 of 57

That must've been really hard, especially since you were excited (but nervous) about it!  :(

 

How is DD doing now?

post #46 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emilie2 View Post

I spent countless hours pouring over one little slip of paper that had some information about my bio parents ,,, it is tear stained and wrinkled and in a file now- since I know them and now have a whole drawer of things. But should we not be trying to prevent some of this for adopted kids now that we know better?

If you can spare your child this wondering- wouldn't you?



I am so sorry you are still so hurt by the choices your adoptive parents made.  But I am also troubled by the way you perceive Polliwog.  She is working so hard to give her adoptive kids a relationship with their birthparents.  You seem unable to see it??

post #47 of 57

Thanks for bringing this conversation back to the most important question Tigerchild!

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigerchild View Post

 

How is DD doing now?



 

post #48 of 57

No- Sometimes I just get caught on one thing. I see it and apologize.

post #49 of 57
Thread Starter 

She's fine right now. We've talked about it a little bit and I don't think she's too upset about it right now. Part of that is "bike love" talking, though. I'm going to talk with the twins foster parents and get their perceptions. At least one of them was in the room at all times and I want to make sure that I'm reading things accurately. I'm 99% sure that they'll agree that things were too intense, but she's not their daughter.They know him a bit better. They don't speak Spanish, either, but they've seen him every other week for almost a year (at visits.)

 

It was harder than I ever could have imagined.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigerchild View Post

That must've been really hard, especially since you were excited (but nervous) about it!  :(

 

How is DD doing now?



 

There is SIGNIFICANT mental illness in both kids' birth families. Luckily, we've got a great psychologist that who can help us work through it. DS's GAL was a psychiatrist. He didn't do much with DS's case but was very involved with his older sister's. I'm pretty sure he'd give me advice when the time comes.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emilie2 View Post

I found out at 20 my bmom was a drug addict alcoholic and a tad bit mentally ill and it did not make me love her any less or want to know her any less.  I don't know when would have been the appropriate time to discuss those things... I know you will do it the best you can when the time is right in a way that preserves the good with the bad.



 



Quote:
Originally Posted by Emilie2 View Post

No- Sometimes I just get caught on one thing. I see it and apologize.



 

post #50 of 57
Thread Starter 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emilie2 View Post

No- Sometimes I just get caught on one thing. I see it and apologize.

It's ok. I'm glad we all stuck with it. It's not a difficult issue and there are no easy answers. I'm sorry that you were made to feel that you needed to be grateful and that you weren't able to have the information that you needed when you were growing up.

post #51 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emilie2 View Post

Oh and to answer your question- I think just talking about it is so important. Working thru the hard parts.  In my home it was talked about in the unhealthy ways.... my mom was a drug addict and my parents indeed did feel I should be grateful I was raised by them. Which I am some of the time,,,, some of the time very much not so.  Its such a dual thing. 

And I think some birthfathers experience a profound loss too. Not all of course as not all birthmothers seem to- or they are so disconnected they can't handle it.... whatever it is.

From what I read about reunion sometimes the fathers were the ones to search, are more receptive to reunion and happy to again be a part of their childs life.


Thats terrible that your APs framed your birthparent history in such a way. I am a big believer in telling the truth, even the hard truths, but i think there is almost always a way to do that without vilifying anyone. My dd's bmom has a lot of negatives, made many poor choices, but she has good qualities too. DD needs to hear both. I read a book called something like Telling the Truth To your Foster or Adopted Child and the author strongly believes that you need to give the child ALL of the info you have BEFORE puberty. Waiting until the child is a teen is risky because the teen years are too tumultuous, they need to process the info BEFORE that time hits. Its hard though. There is one specific thing about my dd's history that i know, and she does not know, that i think will be particularly devastating to her and i'm not sure of the right time to tell her.

 

As far as birthfathers...i'd give anything to have just a name...a name. Without at least a name, my son has no hope of ever finding him. I've seen pics online of my son's maternal family and NO ONE looks like him, not even a little bit. I'm thinking he has to look more like his bdad and i'd sooo love to meet that guy. My son is very....unique...in terms of personality and i'd so love to know if he gets any of that from his bdad. It makes me mad because even though no father is listed, in the paperwork there is ONE spot where a name is apparently given, and its redacted. It drives me CRAZY that they may know, but my SON doesnt have the right to know?? How can one have privacy from their own child?? I doubt he even knows my son exists and pretty sure he would not want his name kept secret from him. One worker even said "oh we know who he is, but there's a warrant out for him so if he shows in court he'll get arrested so he wont show up"....argh. Dont know if that was even accurate but to keep this info from my son is just so unethical. I could go on and on ranting about this.

 

post #52 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by queenjane View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by Emilie2 View Post

Oh and to answer your question- I think just talking about it is so important. Working thru the hard parts.  In my home it was talked about in the unhealthy ways.... my mom was a drug addict and my parents indeed did feel I should be grateful I was raised by them. Which I am some of the time,,,, some of the time very much not so.  Its such a dual thing. 

And I think some birthfathers experience a profound loss too. Not all of course as not all birthmothers seem to- or they are so disconnected they can't handle it.... whatever it is.

From what I read about reunion sometimes the fathers were the ones to search, are more receptive to reunion and happy to again be a part of their childs life.


Thats terrible that your APs framed your birthparent history in such a way. I am a big believer in telling the truth, even the hard truths, but i think there is almost always a way to do that without vilifying anyone. My dd's bmom has a lot of negatives, made many poor choices, but she has good qualities too. DD needs to hear both. I read a book called something like Telling the Truth To your Foster or Adopted Child and the author strongly believes that you need to give the child ALL of the info you have BEFORE puberty. Waiting until the child is a teen is risky because the teen years are too tumultuous, they need to process the info BEFORE that time hits. Its hard though. There is one specific thing about my dd's history that i know, and she does not know, that i think will be particularly devastating to her and i'm not sure of the right time to tell her.

 

. It drives me CRAZY that they may know, but my SON doesnt have the right to know?? How can one have privacy from their own child?? I doubt he even knows my son exists and pretty sure he would not want his name kept secret from him. One worker even said "oh we know who he is, but there's a warrant out for him so if he shows in court he'll get arrested so he wont show up"....argh. Dont know if that was even accurate but to keep this info from my son is just so unethical. I could go on and on ranting about this.

 


It drives me crazy too..... I got lucky a lawyer had the name of my bmom and she knew who my bdad was- and after dna it was confirmed.  I am so sorry this information may not be available to your son.  I am so glad to hear you are fighting for it.

My bdad was just out of prison when my bmom knew him- he is now an auditor for the US DEPT of the ARMY and has a masters degree and spent 4 years in peace core- it s pretty neat how he turned his life around. 

I can remember it being the preteen years where in a fight with my amom she let me know I had a brother my bmom had adopted out as well... I wish that had been done different.

I commend you for being so supportive of your kids and aware of their possible feelings.

post #53 of 57

Skipping over the bulk of the conversation (short on time)...but a few ideas come up:

 

Your dd and my dd are the same age.  One thing that has really helped make her birthparents more real, and less strangers, is a lifestory book.  Polliwog, I can't remember...do you have one?  Could you make a very simple one on shutterfly or booksmart?  In there I spend several pages talking about her parents, about their families and background, and about the decision not to parent and the choice of adoption.  It's all very simple, obviously...when I wrote it and started reading it to her, she was two...so it's on that level.  (And also, the info we have is very limited.)

 

I agree that a four year old is going to have a hard time truly *getting* the idea of birthparents, but dd has heard this story so many times that she knows she has two moms and dads, and knows that two of them live in Korea.  She asks about whether they miss her, and where they work, and if she can give them drawings and presents.  We only have a picture of her mom, not her dad, but she's latched on to that picture and likes looking at her face, and talking about what they have in common.  She asks questions about her dad, too.

 

Now...if we took dd to Seoul this year and she met her parents?  I'd imagine they'd be filled with emotion, and might want to swoop in and do some serious hugging.  I can't know until I'm in that situation, but I think I'd be okay with that.  Don't get me wrong...I'd be mentally on guard for how dd is doing...but if that's what they need, and where their emotions lead them, then as long as I have reason to believe they're common-sense people who will have dd's needs at heart, I think I'd be willing to understand an emotional overflow--even if dd was a little scared by it.

 

Part of the reason I'd trust the process is because I trust her to "get" it.  I feel like it would take her a while to put the realness of her parents in perspective, but there's already a framework in her brain where their realness can go.  Perhaps it would be worthwhile to work on that framework more with your daughter?  As for sex ed...Dd has been asking about the birds and bees since she was three, Ds even earlier (as they got siblings), and by four they both knew about sperm and eggs.  It's not really a charged subject for a little kid....and besides ;), they really like knowing it's how almost EVERYTHING is made...flowers, puppies, the frogs in the pond.  It makes more sense when they know about eggs and sperm. ;)

 

It's just my opinion, but I wouldn't worry about him being too touchy-feely at this first visit.  I'd let your daughter get to know him as he is.  Maybe he's an emotional guy, and maybe she'll recognize that in herself some day.  You can even make that part of her framework for him, if his tendency toward hugs and emotion continues.  You can help her put it in context.  I'd imagine dd would understand something like "Here's a picture of your dad.  Remember him?  He gave you all those hugs when you met him last time.  I bet he's really missed you and was very excited to see you after so long."  You could talk longer about whether she liked those hugs, if she minds them, or if she'd rather you asked him to change things on her behalf.  As she gets to know him more, I'm sure she'll get used to what he is and who he is.  I'd worry that asking him to behave a certain way, or be a certain role, would be damaging at the start of a relationship that your daughter and her dad are going to have to forge (to some extent) on their own for the rest of their lives.

 

As for dd's lifebook, this is what we have written:

 

DD, do you know that all babies begin the same way?

 

It's true.  It takes two people, a man and a woman, to make a baby. [There's a picture of an illustrated Asian man and woman..the woman is pregnant and you can see the image of a baby in her belly.]  Everyone in the world has a birthmother and a birthfather.  You do, too.  Your birthmother and birthfather are Korean.  We call the woman who gave birth to you your Omma, and the man who helped make you we call your Appa.  They are your birthparents.

 

You were conceived by your Omma and Appa, your birthparents, near the beginning of December in 2006.

 

See your belly button [there's a picture of dd pointing to her belly button]?  That belly button is a reminder of when you were very, very tiny and in your Omma's belly, growing and getting ready to be born.  For nine long months you stayed cozy and warm inside your Omma.  Everything your tiny baby body needed to grow was given to you by your Omma's body through your belly button.  You stayed in her belly until you were big enough to be born.

 

Then, in the afternoon of [month and day], something very special happened!  You were born! [Illustration of a newborn baby...we don't have any newborn pictures of dd]

 

Your Omma gave birth to you and you took your first breaths of air.  You weighed 7 pounds, 6 ounces, and you were 20 inches long...a very healthy baby.  We don't have a picture of you then, but you had dark eyes and a little round face, and very short fuzzy hair.  This is [name of hospital], where you were born.  [Photo of the clinic where she was born]

 

Then there's a page on the zodiac, and the year of the pig

 

Then there's a page on the name her parents chose for her, and what it means

 

Then there's a page about the city where she was born

 

Then back to her parents....

 

Your Omma and Appa lived in [city].  Your Appa's name is [name name name] and your Omma's name is [name name name].

 

Your Omma has two older sisters and an younger brother and sister.  She was born in [name of city and state] in the south of Korea, which is famous for its apples and for very lovely women.  Her parents, your grandparents, are farmers in [city].  Your Omma worked in [city].  She described herself as being reserved and quiet.  She was [age] or so when you were born.

 

Your Appa is an only child.  His father works as a security guard at a temple.  Your Omma says he was friendly, even-tempered, and quiet, and he worked in [city], too.  He was [age] or so when you were born.

 

Your Omma and Appa lived together for many years.  They had some grownup problems and they knew they wouldn't be able to to take care of you when you were born.  Sometimes people aren't able to take care of a child, any child.  It's not your fault they couldn't take care of you, DD.

 

This is a picture of your Omma when she was six months pregnant with you!  [photo of her mom] We see so much of your Omma in you.  Sometimes you smile like her.  You also have her eyes, and the shape of her face, and we think you might have the same hair that likes to fall forward.  Your Omma looks friendly, like you do.

 

Then there's a page about her mom making the choice to live at a maternity home with photos of the people her mom knew there and photos of where she lived.  Text:  When your Omma knew she was pregnant with you, she knew she wanted to take very good care of you and make sure you would have a good, loving family.  She decided to live at a place called [name], with a very nice woman named Mrs. [name].

 

Mrs. [name] said your Omma is a kind woman.  She described your Omma as "calm and bright."  She said she wasn't very talkative, but was comfortable to be around.  Your Omma lived at [place] for the months before and after your birth, and the women there took very good care of her.  Mrs. [name] said that your Omma loved you very much, and wanted you to grow up with a family.  Your Omma made the decision for you to be adopted.  We're sure it wasn't easy for her to make that choice, but she believed it was the best decision.

 

Then the book goes on into dd's life...where she went after she was born, her first photos, the foster families she lived with, why she was moved, and what was going on behind-the-scenes with us so that we could adopt her.  We feature her foster families quite a bit, her foster siblings, the first photos we ever saw of her, the first time she got a package from us, her first Spring in Korea, the first time we met her, how she reacted when she had to leave her foster families, and how she reacted as she got to know us.  After all that, there's a page with pictures of her four families...her birthmom (again...wish we had one of her dad!), her first mom with her, her second foster mom with her, and a photo of her with us that first day in Seoul.  Underneath it says:

 

All the people who love you...and now you would have a new family.  A family forever. 

 

DD, do you know that families are made in different ways?  Some children join families by birth, and some join families by adoption.  When you are adopted, that is forever.  You will always be our daughter, an we will always be your Mommy and Daddy.  When you join a family by adoption, you have two sets of parents.  Your birthparents that we call Omma and Appa, and us, your Mommy and Daddy.  You also have many people who have loved you and taken care of you.  So many people love you, DD!

 

Then it goes on to describe our first few days and weeks as a family...it introduces my extended family and dh's, and shows pictures of what she liked to do when she first joined us.  There are pictures of her baby annoucement, and of us with the judge on the day she was adopted.  The last page says:

 

DD, your first name means shining light.  It's a form of your great-grandmother [name]'s name, and we think the meaning is beautiful.  We also wanted you to keep the name your Omma gave you, [name], because that is your Korean name and it is an important part of who you are.  [Name] and [Name] are your two family names.

 

Both names were given to you with love.  Both families are a part of who you are and who you will become.  Our little light, our little river and grace, our beautiful girl.  We love you.

 

~~

 

I hope you don't mind me sharing that, Polliwog.  I know you're a very experienced adoptive parent, but I wanted to share some idea of what dd (at four ) knows very well about her parents and conception/adoption.  Obviously we've toned down the details in her parents' relationship and in the difficulty of choosing adoption...we'll fill that in as she asks...but I did want to give her as much basic information as I could about her parents and their personalities.  I so wish we had more information, or a photo, of her father--I think it would make it easier for him to be even more real for dd.

 

Maybe it's all just wishful thinking, but I'm hoping that if we make her Korean families (birth and foster) more real to her, then when she meets them she'll feel like they've been a part of her story forever.  She'll know a little of what to expect from them, and know (through the book and our conversations) why they would have an emotional reaction after not seeing her for so long.  That's not to say that their reactions might not weird her out a little (or a lot) at first, but that when we talk about those reactions I'll be able to put them in context, and she'll understand better what's happening and why.

 

Hope that helps.  Best of luck to you...I'm sure it's not easy.

 

 

post #54 of 57
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedOakMomma View Post

It's just my opinion, but I wouldn't worry about him being too touchy-feely at this first visit.  I'd let your daughter get to know him as he is.  Maybe he's an emotional guy, and maybe she'll recognize that in herself some day.  You can even make that part of her framework for him, if his tendency toward hugs and emotion continues.  You can help her put it in context.  I'd imagine dd would understand something like "Here's a picture of your dad.  Remember him?  He gave you all those hugs when you met him last time.  I bet he's really missed you and was very excited to see you after so long."  You could talk longer about whether she liked those hugs, if she minds them, or if she'd rather you asked him to change things on her behalf.  As she gets to know him more, I'm sure she'll get used to what he is and who he is.  I'd worry that asking him to behave a certain way, or be a certain role, would be damaging at the start of a relationship that your daughter and her dad are going to have to forge (to some extent) on their own for the rest of their lives.

 

I'm still processing all that everyone's written as well as everything that happened that day. However, I believe strongly in "my body, my boundaries" with ANYONE. Every person has the right to personal bubble space when they want it. His holding her in his arms tightly and hugging her while she was obviously uncomfortable with it, AND whispering in her ear in a language she doesn't understand, isn't ok. Sitting with his face inches from her head, while she's hiding her face (under her hair) in a stuffed animal, and speaking to her in a language she doesn't understand, isn't ok.  She's allowed to have her personal space respected.  We're not talking about a quick hug here.

 

I would like to try seeing him again. I really think the park is the best idea. I'd definitely bring along someone to help interpret (both the verbal and nonverbal stuff.) I'll even bring the bike if she's able to learn to ride it by them (which wouldn't surprise me.) We'll see how things go.

 

 

 

 

post #55 of 57

Maybe, in addition to helping her process who he is and what he is in her life and family, you could help her voice what she wants when he's in her personal space.  I know that could be tough for a four-year-old...my dd would probably feel very shy about speaking up to a near-stranger.  Perhaps a code word she could use?  Or maybe she could come to your lap when she's feeling uncomfortable, so that you become the guard of her personal space?  I could see saying something like this to dd:   "If you don't feel comfortable, or if you feel like you want some space, come over and sit in Mama's lap.  Then the adults can talk while you take a break."

 

I still think a four-year-old could have pretty useful conversations about WHY he's behaving that way, and WHY he speaks in a language she doesn't understand.  I know it's different, but I've had similar discussions with dd and ds when we go to spend time with extended family, and there are a few very smothering great-aunts.  Yes, my aunts' behavior is alien and alarming to them, but when they've been prepped on what to expect and why my aunts behave that way, they know better how to respond and they don't freak out by the difference in what my aunts see as normal and what our family sees as normal.  I also think it's pretty amazing how different your dd's understanding of people's motivations and emotions might be in a half year or a year.  My dd is almost 4 and a half.  Ds is almost six.  His ability to cope and understand personal dynamics has really changed in the last year...watching how he behaves around strangers and how he's able to engage in a conversation about their behaviors or feelings, I'm guessing that the age of 4 and 5 is the time of a big transition toward a larger consciousness of others' feelings.  He's also much more able to relate to people and stand up for his comfort zone without having to fall back on me.

 

The park does sound like a good idea.  It gives your daughter some natural escapes if that's what she needs or feels she wants.  Maybe he is just too intense right now...hopefully there will be some combination of him relaxing a little and your daughter feeling more comfortable with his differences.  Fingers crossed for you!

post #56 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Polliwog View Post

 

I'm still processing all that everyone's written as well as everything that happened that day. However, I believe strongly in "my body, my boundaries" with ANYONE. Every person has the right to personal bubble space when they want it.

 


I have to add that this is really foreign to anyone who hasn't adopted from foster care.  The mixed feelings we have about birthparents and our need to protect our children is just greater.  Every kid has the right to personal space and a child adopted from foster care has a greater right.
 

 

post #57 of 57

Good point. 

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