Seasonal Whatever Disorder

[Tigerle]

Last fall, DS’ behaviour entered a downward spiral (inability to follow directions. Violent explosions. Tics like hairpulling. Low level physical aggression like disrespecting boundaries. Taking forever to fall asleep. Nighttime wakings, screaming) which got so bad after Christmas that we decided to see a child psychiatrist, who was so sure she was seeing a mild case of ASD I freaked.

After several rounds of testing, ASD was ruled out, and we saw an OT with a specialization in developmental counselling, whose opinions on what was going on ranged from “you are parenting perfectly and your child is a model child, why are you even here” over “you’re expecting too much due to his asynchronousness” to “you are letting yourself be dominated by him in play, assert yourself in the sandbox and he’ll let you assert yourself during the rest of the day ” depending his mood of the day (the last was when I said we’d really like the final report now, thank you very much. We still haven’t received it. Have I mentioned their office organisation is atrocious? This is a university hospital.)

Things just got better and better in spring. Another OT who specializes in sensory work said there were some issues with body awareness and tactile defensiveness which she felt had responded very well to intervention but otherwise he was doing just fine, a very enjoyable child. The preschool teachers who had recommended we see a psychiatrist now recommended early entry into K. Lots of playdates, working very well. Summer was great. (Preschool operates on a year-round schedule so it was only 4 weeks of actual vacation or so, he improved long before school was out).

Now it’s fall and it’s all coming back albeit in a much milder form. Violent explosions. Disrespect for physical boundaries. Complete inability to follow directions. Any direction. He loves violin practice, but getting him to focus enough so he’ll actually Start Doing It is like pulling teeth. Sometimes I can’t even get him to pee in the mornings even though his bladder is full to burst, because he is prancing around needing to fiddle with this and explain that and yell about this and run out to check on that and in between bother DD. Then get him to close the lid, then flush, then pull up his pants, then wash his hands, all having to keep him from fiddlingexplainingyellingrunningawaybothering DD in between every step. It’s exhausting and we’ve only been up four minutes. Repeat with getting dressed, eating breakfast (table manners sliding into atrocious again), getting dressed to get out of the house (and then, of course there are times when he is doing it all without my having to say a thing. But they are getting rarer).

And recently, he has started yanking his hair again when stressed.

I am much calmer this year, knowing that it’s probably all going to go away by spring again and I am that much more savvy about how much stimulation I can build into the day without his falling apart (I hope that when I start working part-time come December and I will need to rely more on DH and the inlaws to structure his days things will continue to work, but we’ll take that as it comes).

I’d just like to know what the heck IS going on here? Has anyone else experienced these seasonal cycles?

[joensally]

Yes.  DS has cycled some quirks (hair pulling has just returned, in fact).  He had a stutter for 3 cycles, then gone.  Other things too.  This winter has been his calmest and I haven't hear "ADHD" from anyone this year, which is new.  He's 9 and I think some of it is maturity.  The Eides talk about seeing less SPD in their over-10 patients than in their under-10 yo patients, which I've always thought was interesting.

DD possibly has SAD, but we need 3 years of data to confirm apparently.

We're trying things like fatty acids, light therapy, ensuring adequate sleep and activity.  I find it very difficult to maintain it, so really don't know what works or doesn't.  I've come to the conclusion that I have neurologically complex kids and we just ride it out while trying to help where we can.

[Monkey Keeper]

We are in a bad cycle with ADHD-like behaviors, tactile defensiveness and sleep issues here as well. I thought it was sleep disruption related since she seemed to have a terrible time adjusting to DST.  Somehow, it's comforting to see that others are dealing with it as well. DD2 is now almost 4, and last late fall/winter was sooo bad that that was when we had her evaluated for intervention through the school district.

[LynnS6]

Environmental allergies? Diet issues?

Our son cycles into weird behaviors too. Last year I realized it was mostly in the spring that he does it. Of course, this spring, he didn't do any of it, and now this fall, he's suddenly washing his hands a lot and refusing to dry them on a towel. Sensory? OCD? A phase? I dunno. Like several other boys I read about on this board, he's got sensory issues, has looked like he's on the ASD spectrum at times, and then doesn't. (At 10, it's very clear he's not on the ASD spectrum, but he's still a bit quirky.)

I don't have any useful advice -- except to try thing that others have suggested. I just wanted to say that we get these weird cycles too.

[Greenmama2]

DD does this kind of parent-insane-driving stuff in cycles too although I haven't really noticed a seasonal link other than she tends to concentrate a little better in Summer. It's nearly Summer here so maybe I'm forgetting how bad Winter was

[Tigerle]

Thanks Joensally and Lynn!

If I'd had to guess which two posters knew exactly what I was talking about...

Maybe we can enter our little guys into a study together. Because I am sure stumped. I tend to rule out allergies (what's to be allergic against in October and getting worst in December?) and diet (he basically eats the same four vegetables and three types of fruit all year round, in summer it's more ice cream, in winter more chocolate, but there are always moderate amounts of sweets he is allowed...). We were a bit sloppy theses days about fish oil, but that was because there was no pressure to keep doing stuff which might help...

Of course there is a lot of new stimulation in fall until Christmas: new classrooms, new classes, new schedules (though in his case, there is very little variation: same 3-6 classroom, just older kids gone and a few young ones in), his birthday, St. Martin's, St Nicholas', Advent, all big deals, I know. But in spring, we added swim class, OT, had lots of playdates (because they were finally working again), excursions, a number of trips abroad, not all of them vacations...he took it all in stride. Somehow he loses his ability to compensate in fall. I wonder about specific back to school stresses, whether there is something about adjusting to this preschool class with 25 kids that is just harder than anything else in his life - which makes of course the decision of when to start frist grade all the more important. Luckily, the final decision about starting first grade as opposed to repeating the K pullout in preschool is going to take place in March or April, at which time we will probably wonder why we ever wondered (and in fall, we will probably think "what  were we thinking?")

I also wonder about our foggy river bottom climate and the many sunless days, particularly in light of this study that links a higher prevalence of autism to rainfall. But I get stuck on what it might mean and what kind of strategy to implement.

[Tigerle]

Originally Posted by Greenmama2 

DD does this kind of parent-insane-driving stuff in cycles too although I haven't really noticed a seasonal link other than she tends to concentrate a little better in Summer. It's nearly Summer here so maybe I'm forgetting how bad Winter was

So, another sun link, huh? Know any good researchers? O know the ones who did the rainfall study came up with TV consumption, others have come up with vitamin D deficiency - I don't buy either, too many cross-variables!

[Naomi]

Quote:

(what's to be allergic against in October and getting worst in December?)

Red dye #40, if your kid trick-or-treats, and likes candy canes. I had a friend whose kid acted demon-possessed in early November. He normally ate a very healthy diet but got Halloween candy and a lot of it was red. My kid is short-tempered, violent, and incredibly agitated if she eats red 40, and fine otherwise. 

[Greenmama2]

Originally Posted by Tigerle 

So, another sun link, huh? Know any good researchers? O know the ones who did the rainfall study came up with TV consumption, others have come up with vitamin D deficiency - I don't buy either, too many cross-variables!

Actually, thinking about this reminded me that DD gets a rash on her chin that I think is food related BUT she only gets it in the absolute depths of winter. A hint of sunlight & it is gone. It drives me insane trying to work out what she could be reacting to as her diet doesn't change all that much and neither do environmental factors. I wish I could work out what it is, maybe I'll bump this thread in our Winter when you have forgotten all about it to remind you of the upcoming Autumn.
Can you link to the rainfall study? I don't buy either of those either but we do live at the top of a mountain range just in from the coast. We get a LOT of rainy/wet/misty/foggy/downright sopping days in a year so I'm intrigued.

[Tigerle]

Originally Posted by Greenmama2 


Can you link to the rainfall study? I don't buy either of those either but we do live at the top of a mountain range just in from the coast. We get a LOT of rainy/wet/misty/foggy/downright sopping days in a year so I'm intrigued.

This is where I read it first I think. the article talks mainly about the television link but kind of hidden in there is that part of the underlying evidence is the correlation between precipitation and autism in the Pacific states, and the television link was simply assumed.

Not that I am not happy to knock television aimed at under-threes as evil and too much of it for any child as just as evil but it doen't help me personally because we limit our kids screen time so much anyway, so I'm not happy with it on that level!  
 

http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2006/10/tv_really_might_cause_autism.html

[Tigerle]

Originally Posted by PinkBunch 

We are in a bad cycle with ADHD-like behaviors, tactile defensiveness and sleep issues here as well. I thought it was sleep disruption related since she seemed to have a terrible time adjusting to DST.  Somehow, it's comforting to see that others are dealing with it as well. DD2 is now almost 4, and last late fall/winter was sooo bad that that was when we had her evaluated for intervention through the school district.

You'd think that the evidence for fall back and spring forward being pernicious for people's, especially children's internal clocks should have penetrated minds by now, shouldn't it? I do not understand why so many Western countries still drag that one around. I'll try to think back whether I noticed a change right after fall back, but both kids appeared to take it in stride.

[Tigerle]

Originally Posted by Naomi 

Red dye #40, if your kid trick-or-treats, and likes candy canes. I had a friend whose kid acted demon-possessed in early November. He normally ate a very healthy diet but got Halloween candy and a lot of it was red. My kid is short-tempered, violent, and incredibly agitated if she eats red 40, and fine otherwise. 

Hmm...I do check candy for azo dyes. Normally.  Maybe I'll go downstairs right after posting and go through what's left from his birthday.

Last year, I asked my DH, who was on the PTA that time, to table a motion to check the foods they were offering for azo dyes but I've never followed up - they probably ignored it. I am kinda suspicious of the herbal teas they offer, I know it's red. Great reminder - I'll check their tea boxes and Monday and will offer to pay for any stuff that I need to throw out. Oh, i am so popular in that preschool already.
 

[beanma]

I'm actually a big proponent of vitamin D for my kids and myself. Don't think daylight savings time has anything to do with it but the lack of sunlight in winter (or cloudy climes) can certainly have an impact IMO. I definitely notice it in myself and over the years I have detected a marked behavior pattern in dd1. Dd2 and dh don't suffer with it quite as much. Dd1 has improved as she's gotten older and now she's able to deal with it a little bit better. I know some mdc parents report improvement with magnesium supps also. We do omega 3 supps as well. 

[Tigerle]

We do fish oil and magnesium, and I felt magnesium helped a lot with calming down ad bedtime and sleeping better.

[beanma]

So your ds just turned 5? We definitely saw a lot of seasonal behavior changes at that age with dd1, now 10. I do think the vitamin D helps and so does just a little more maturity. My kids are so not naturally morning people and hate getting up when it's dark. I have always been affected by seasonal changes, but I didn't really start paying close attention to it until I had kids. Then I was able to go back and connect the dots. You can always get your ds's vitamin D levels checked and see.

[Tigerle]

Hah, had another opportunity to firmly establish myself as That Mom this morning when I asked to check their tea boxes. I was happy to find that the tea they offer the kids ("it's very expensive, from our extra special retailer!" - "they put dyes in expensive teas too, you know...") is additive-free.

So that's not it.

Beanma, would you feel the need to have Vitamin D levels checked even if your kid got NN CLO every day? I thought that should take care of it. BTW, not that I don't believe how important vitamin D is, only that I do not buy the autism connection, because that would be so easy to remedy and in most European countries at least, babies and toddlers are supplemented routinely, so autism shouldn't develop in the first place. Also, there should be an extreme autism incidence in Nordic countries and I never heard of that. (maybe they have always supplemented with CLO? But where is the link beteween rickets and autism?)

[beanma]

Well, I'm not saying that there is a vitamin D and autism connection, but it sounded like in your first post that you weren't buying an autism diagnosis anyway. I do think there is a link between seasonal affective disorder and vitamin D. How much vitamin D does your CLO supp have? We supplement with NN kids DHA soft gels and it really doesn't have much vitamin D at all, just about 1-4 IUs. We also give a 1000 IU lemon gumdrop from Rainbow Light (they also make a 800IU orange flavored one).

hth

[AllisonR]

Do your kids with SAD symptoms get only depressed in winter months (or other seasons) and "normal" the rest of the year? Or are they also manic, or happy or high, at other times? Do you keep a mood chart? There is a great one for Bi-Polar, you can find online, but this might also be useful for you or your kids who have other types of mood swings. Charting can really help you see the big picture, and over time it helps you realize what the triggers are. It won't solve the problem. But sometimes just knowing, OK, I am on a downward swing now because of X Y and Z, can help you cope. I'm a very moody person, not SAD but bi-polar, though much more on the happy side than sad side, which is why it took 44 years to find a diagnosis. But my son takes after me, and is very moody, so I keep a watch on his moods. 

[Linda on the move]

I've noticed a seasonal shift in my DD, who is both gifted and on the autism spectrum. We've lived all over and it is worse the further north we are. However, I don't think it has anything to do with sunlight but rather with her sensory issues  and how much easier it is for her to have her sensory issues met when it is nice out side.

All the normal summer activities -- swimming, biking, swinging, etc. are fantasitic for her. On days when she gets at least an hour of full body movement, she can think more clearly and handle stress better. That automatically happens when the weather is good. When she doesn't get in the kind of movement she needs, she gradually falls apart. Not only do I have to work work work at making it happen, no matter how much I plan and drive to, I cannot re-create what happens quite naturally in the summer.

just thought I'd mention this -- I suspect that similar things are true for lots of kids with sensory issues, whether or not they have additional DX's.

[Tigerle]

Originally Posted by Linda on the move 

I've noticed a seasonal shift in my DD, who is both gifted and on the autism spectrum. We've lived all over and it is worse the further north we are. However, I don't think it has anything to do with sunlight but rather with her sensory issues  and how much easier it is for her to have her sensory issues met when it is nice out side.

All the normal summer activities -- swimming, biking, swinging, etc. are fantasitic for her. On days when she gets at least an hour of full body movement, she can think more clearly and handle stress better. That automatically happens when the weather is good. When she doesn't get in the kind of movement she needs, she gradually falls apart. Not only do I have to work work work at making it happen, no matter how much I plan and drive to, I cannot re-create what happens quite naturally in the summer.

just thought I'd mention this -- I suspect that similar things are true for lots of kids with sensory issues, whether or not they have additional DX's.

I am convinced this is true for us as well. One of the problems for me is that it is my experience that physical exhaustion makes things much worse, so vigorous exercise of the kid that you can plan isn't that helpful. The activities that just happens naturally in summer (i can't say enough good things about our sandbox and the hose) seem to work much much better. I wonder whether it can be the whole of the story? I'm sure it's a big part.