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Be careful about ICAN and other such groups - Page 2

post #21 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lisa1970 View Post


The people in the group were very against my old doctor and made it clear I would not be able to have a vbac with anyone else but the one favored OB in the group. The OB I had been with agreed to a vba3c so...I thought I was fine. But, within the group, they just kept saying you cannot trust anyone else but that one OB. 



 



So you left the doctor that you already had 3 VBACs with in order to try this new doctor?  :(  I guess I'm not understanding why you would leave the doctor you had a wonderful history of VBACs with in order to use someone that women in the local ICAN group suggested.

post #22 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by E'smom View Post



So you left the doctor that you already had 3 VBACs with in order to try this new doctor?  greensad.gif  I guess I'm not understanding why you would leave the doctor you had a wonderful history of VBACs with in order to use someone that women in the local ICAN group suggested.

A vba3c is a vbac after 3 cesareans, not a third vbac.
post #23 of 45
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JAHerr View Post

Again I am so sorry for your experiences.  You mentioned in a different post that you were hoping for a VBA4C.  Is it possible that this is why you were directed to one particular OB over another?  live in Illinois and there is probably one OB in the entire state who would consider a VBA3C (much less 4c) even with previous vaginal births.   I haven't heard of many resources even in Chicago.  I am on all of our state's ICAN boards. This will mean that many hoping for VBA3C and higher will end up going to the same provider.  Moms are traveling long distances to do so.  I think the VBAC situation is sad.  I am sorry for your experiences especially since you have had prior VBACS.  I think just as support groups are not going to be the right fit for every person neither are care providers.  Sadly, with the greater number of cesareans the options become that much more limited.  Hopefully you will find the support you need to be able to overcome your traumatic birth experience.  


No..sorry. I had my two vbacs elsewhere. When we moved here, I have been with this one OB. I did not plan a vbac in 2006, but due to some circumstances, it happened, stayed with same OB, and she sort of pressured me in to a csect at the end, even though she had agreed to vbac at beginning. That was baby 2009. I had horrible complications from that csect and came close to dying. I did not want another csect again. She actually apologized for pushing me in to the csect, even though it was an indirect push and said I could try a vbac the next time. But, because of how things went the time before, where I got to the end and was sort of pressured to a repeat csect, I was went ahead and went with the other OB, which I had to travel an hour to get to, but right away, by 20 weeks, there were major red flags. There were smaller ones before. But every time I posted about something, I was so badly bullied, that I sort of blamed myself and was scared to move on. In my third trimester though,things went to over the deep end with him, that I was willing to consent to a repeat csect to get away. But by then it was too late. And, when I would just mention any issue, I would get reamed so bad on the group, that I questioned myself. My dh was never comfy with the group because he went with me to an in person meeting and felt they were way out there and over the top about some things. But we did not live here when I had my first two vbacs.
post #24 of 45

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Edited by JAHerr - 12/8/11 at 2:19pm
post #25 of 45

I just felt like I had to post something here as well. I am a member of the yahoo group that you speak about, and I spent a large amount of my time looking back at the history of posts.

 

You posted to the group saying you were TTC and that you were already with Dr. XYZ. You posted a few times asking about OBs for VBA4C and then about VBAC friendly OBs. One person asked if you would consider a midwife. The responses you got were that Dr. XYZ is probably the only OB in the area who will do a VBA4C.

 

Never once do you mention who your previous OB was.  So how could the group be against this doctor?

 

When people post to the group asking for care provider suggestions, there is no jumping on someone if they don’t choose Dr. XYZ. There are a number of OBs that are VBAC friendly and also many midwives who do VBACs in our area. However, the number of VBAC3C and VBA4C friendly OBs decreases drastically.

 

If you did receive private emails attacking you, then why didn’t you notify the Chapter Leader or Regional Coordinator? Those members should be banned, as that behavior is not acceptable.

 

You make claims that all the group does is push this one doctor and that they are not about VBACS, I am sorry I do not see it. And I read EVERY single post made to the group. The group is very supportive; in fact within the last year support group meetings for c/s moms were started.

 

When you posted concerns to the group, you received replies suggesting that maybe that wasn’t the right care provider for you.  That maybe you should find someone else. No one ever bullied you and pushed you to stay with Dr. XYZ. You were the only one that could make that decision to switch; no one forced you to stay with him.

 

I am so grateful to ICAN, without it I would not have tried or had a VBAC. The meetings were always very educational.  Here is a list of meeting topics over the last 2 years, how are these not supportive?

 

January 2009 – LA D. speaks - Emotional, spiritual, and physical healing after a cesarean through Soul Birth's Holistic Bodywork.

March 2009 – Dr. C speaks – he is both a VBAC and natural birth friendly OB

May 2009 – Sharing of birth stories

July 2009 – Dr. D speaks - She is a licensed psychologist. One of the things she specializes in is dealing with birth trauma.

September 2009 – Dr. T speaks - She is a chiropractor who specializes in pregnancy and pediatrics. She is certified in the Webster Technique.

November 2009 – Dad’s night to share their c/s and/or VBAC experience

January 2010 – J N speaks - speaking on midwifery and out-of-hospital birth for VBAC.

March 2010 – Movie Night: Pregnant in America was shown

May 2010 – Sharing of birth stories

July 2010 – P J speaks - talking about how women can redue internal scar tissue and adhesions before or during a subsequent pregnancy and after a cesarean.

September 2010 – VBAMC stories

November 2010 – Meeting about how to educate the people we run into on a daily basis about the safety and risks of VBACs, c/s, etc.

January 2011 – Meeting on Midwifery (3 midwives spoke & birth center tour)

March 2011 – Sharing of VBAC experiences and pain management

May 2011 – Dr. C  speaks (answered questions about VBACs)

July 2011 – Movie Night: Doula! The Ultimate Birth Companion was shown

September  2011 – Doula night, a few doulas invited to talk about what they do and how they can help laboring moms

November 2011 – Interview questions for care providers

 

I’m sorry that this ICAN group did not meet your needs. I am also very sorry about the birth experience you had. BUT I did find it necessary to make sure other people who read this know that what you are saying is not true about this group.

 

 

 

 

post #26 of 45
Thread Starter 

Actually, what I have said is 100% true and you are probably just one of the people who was trashing on me when I said anything at all about Dr. C. And others on the group did point out the bullying too. And if you were at the inperson meetings, you would know the group did say some things about the OB I had seen previously.

 

And I love how you just joined just to make this post. Seriously, your post illustrates all the more how I was treated there.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JAHerr View Post

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Quote:
Originally Posted by EElady View Post

I just felt like I had to post something here as well. I am a member of the yahoo group that you speak about, and I spent a large amount of my time looking back at the history of posts.

 

You posted to the group saying you were TTC and that you were already with Dr. XYZ. You posted a few times asking about OBs for VBA4C and then about VBAC friendly OBs. One person asked if you would consider a midwife. The responses you got were that Dr. XYZ is probably the only OB in the area who will do a VBA4C.

 

Never once do you mention who your previous OB was.  So how could the group be against this doctor?

 

 

 



 


Edited by Lisa1970 - 12/8/11 at 2:46pm
post #27 of 45

Actually I attended 10 of those 18 meetings. I guess I missed the one(s) you are referring to. I can honestly care less who one chooses as a care provider. Each person has to decide for themselves. I had a VBAC with an area OB and I have never heard her name mentioned on ICAN and I never felt pressured from ICAN to change care providers.

 

I think it is very unfortunate that you had a bad experience, but that doesn't mean everyone does or will. That goes for care providers in any field. Not all people will like the same doctor or have the same type of experience. This is why it is so important to find the right fit for you & your family. 

 

That said, ICAN can be a great resource for women seeking birthing options & education. 

 

I joined 2 months ago, but I'm a working mom with several kids so my time is limited. I have just spent my time reading posts & not posting. But I couldn't not provide my two cents here. 

post #28 of 45
Thread Starter 

So which is it...you have limited time..or you spent hours and hours searching through months of posts to confirm that there were no bullying posts and be an expert? No, you come off like someone who joined just to continue the bullying here.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by EElady View Post

Actually I attended 10 of those 18 meetings. I guess I missed the one(s) you are referring to. I can honestly care less who one chooses as a care provider. Each person has to decide for themselves. I had a VBAC with an area OB and I have never heard her name mentioned on ICAN and I never felt pressured from ICAN to change care providers.

 

I think it is very unfortunate that you had a bad experience, but that doesn't mean everyone does or will. That goes for care providers in any field. Not all people will like the same doctor or have the same type of experience. This is why it is so important to find the right fit for you & your family. 

 

That said, ICAN can be a great resource for women seeking birthing options & education. 

 

I joined 2 months ago, but I'm a working mom with several kids so my time is limited. I have just spent my time reading posts & not posting. But I couldn't not provide my two cents here. 



 

post #29 of 45

No one at ICAN did anything differently than these ladies here.  We all offered you suggestions when things were not working out for you.  I have been reading your posts here since you started writing them and have had to bite my tongue to keep from saying anything this whole time.  I thought that you would vent your feelings, get some validation from people who don't know all the details and heal so that you could move on.

First, let me state, that I feel terrible for you.  I tried to reach out to you right after you gave birth and you and I emailed back and forth several times.  I have always felt terrible about the whole situation.  As much as I wish that this OB could help everyone, I know that he can't. 

 

You expressed your dislike of him, his staff, the hospital, the hospital staff, the drive over there and many other things for most of your pregnancy.  The truth is, it wasn't ICAN that backed you into a corner, It's the fact that you were trying to have a VBA4C.  The next closest doctor who would have accepted you with open arms is just about 800 miles away.  Your options (if you wanted a VBAC with an OB) were very, very limited.

 

And In your posts here, you stated that you'd switched doctors anyway....and this was only 8 days before you had your babyhttp://www.mothering.com/community/t/1329871/39w1d-pregnant-and-have-to-find-a-new-ob-seriously  "For the record, I did switch OBs over the weekend. I cannot believe I managed to. But, now I have to figure out how to cancel with the OB that I have had until now, without too much stress on me"  "So, I need to call and at least cancel the next appointment, which is Monday. I am thinking of just cancelling and saying I will call back to reschedule. But then never calling back. And hoping they don't call me."


If you had posted this on the ICAN board, we would have been thrilled not only that you found an OB that you like, but that there is another OB in the area willing to take on a VBA4C.  That would have given much hope to other mamas in the same situation. Did you actually switch doctors? 

 

Through all of these posts about abandonment, you have left the distinct impression that this OB was gone somewhere when you had your baby.  Over and over again you have negleted to mention the fact that he was already at the hospital with another VBAC mama.  You kept calling, asking to speak with him on the phone and the on-call doc and the nurses wouldn't put you on with him.  Hospital policy says you have to go IN to the hospital in order to be evaluated.  If you had chosen to go in, he absolutely without doubt, would have seen you.  I don't know what occured during those phone calls.  But I do know that ICAN did everything they could to support you and offer you alternatives to make you happy.  It just seems like nothing we ever said or did helped.  It seems we were never a good fit either.  I will assure everyone else that we do have some wonderful OBs and midwives in our area who love VBACs (and we share the names of all of them)...just not many who will do a VBAMC.

 

 

 

 

post #30 of 45
Thread Starter 

So you did just happen to join after my baby was born, and happen to be so busy with your career and children that you do not have the time to read but have the time to read every single one of my posts, and you admit to being one of the ones who emailed me. You also just happen to know which ICAN group I was on and you seem to be stalking my posts and emails. 

 

Yes, I found a doctor when I found out Dr. Cummings was out of town to take me because he took off and left no one on call. but that doctor informed me within days that I would not be having a vbac with her. So I went right back and continued with Dr. Cummings, who then took off yet again after lying to my face and saying he would be there. Also, Dr. Cummings has been sued several times and lost. He has a history of this behavior. When the going gets tough, he runs.

 

But it is zealots like you that keep his practice going. Telling women they do not want vbacs if they go elsewhere. They will not have a vbac if they go elsewhere. But in the end, when things were not going so well, he ran. My baby would have died if I had not gone elsewhere. Fact is, you are nothing but a bully zealot who is stalking me and my posts. And you post here under another name and registered for a new name for the purpose of trying to post here anonymously against me. I have not been posting where I live, but you knew right off, supposedly, who I am. You even admit in this post that you have been watching my posts for a while. But in your original post, you act like you just saw this and just had to respond. But fact is, you have been stalking me awhile. THIS is why I warn against a group like that ican group. Because of stalker zealots like you who attack me because Dr. Cummings abandoned me while I was in labor and you don't want his image tarnished. But if you get online, you can see he has been sued and has lost and has been disciplined by the state board, which is rare to have happen. So he is not this perfect man that you have tried to tell me he is.

 

You have been stalking me for so long that you know the exact day my baby was born, even though I never posted it. Interesting. Scarey actually. Are you planning to show up at my house next? You are completely an example why a group like this can become dangerous. Because of zealot stalkers like you. 

 

And he was not at the hospital with another vbac mom. The other vbac mom delivered 2 days after me...not that day. Maybe you should try stalking her closer so you can compare better. Seriously..you are scary with the level you have gone to stalk me. 
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by neveraim View Post

No one at ICAN did anything differently than these ladies here.  We all offered you suggestions when things were not working out for you.  I have been reading your posts here since you started writing them and have had to bite my tongue to keep from saying anything this whole time.  I thought that you would vent your feelings, get some validation from people who don't know all the details and heal so that you could move on.

First, let me state, that I feel terrible for you.  I tried to reach out to you right after you gave birth and you and I emailed back and forth several times.  I have always felt terrible about the whole situation.  As much as I wish that this OB could help everyone, I know that he can't. 

 

You expressed your dislike of him, his staff, the hospital, the hospital staff, the drive over there and many other things for most of your pregnancy.  The truth is, it wasn't ICAN that backed you into a corner, It's the fact that you were trying to have a VBA4C.  The next closest doctor who would have accepted you with open arms is just about 800 miles away.  Your options (if you wanted a VBAC with an OB) were very, very limited.

 

And In your posts here, you stated that you'd switched doctors anyway....and this was only 8 days before you had your babyhttp://www.mothering.com/community/t/1329871/39w1d-pregnant-and-have-to-find-a-new-ob-seriously  "For the record, I did switch OBs over the weekend. I cannot believe I managed to. But, now I have to figure out how to cancel with the OB that I have had until now, without too much stress on me"  "So, I need to call and at least cancel the next appointment, which is Monday. I am thinking of just cancelling and saying I will call back to reschedule. But then never calling back. And hoping they don't call me."


If you had posted this on the ICAN board, we would have been thrilled not only that you found an OB that you like, but that there is another OB in the area willing to take on a VBA4C.  That would have given much hope to other mamas in the same situation. Did you actually switch doctors? 

 

Through all of these posts about abandonment, you have left the distinct impression that this OB was gone somewhere when you had your baby.  Over and over again you have negleted to mention the fact that he was already at the hospital with another VBAC mama.  You kept calling, asking to speak with him on the phone and the on-call doc and the nurses wouldn't put you on with him.  Hospital policy says you have to go IN to the hospital in order to be evaluated.  If you had chosen to go in, he absolutely without doubt, would have seen you.  I don't know what occured during those phone calls.  But I do know that ICAN did everything they could to support you and offer you alternatives to make you happy.  It just seems like nothing we ever said or did helped.  It seems we were never a good fit either.  I will assure everyone else that we do have some wonderful OBs and midwives in our area who love VBACs (and we share the names of all of them)...just not many who will do a VBAMC.

 

 

 

 



 

post #31 of 45

um.  I'm not a genius or anything.  Anyone can look back and see the title of your post that says "39 w-1day pregnant have to find a new OB" and then OB abandonment at 40w 2days...  That equals 8 days.  And I only know what you have told me or what you have posted yourself.  For the record, I did just see this post.  Sorry to dissapoint, but I'm not here every day. 

As you can see on my profile, I have been a member here far before your baby was born.  I am a VBAC advocate and a VBA3C mama myself and I know how his practice works.  You have to actually go to the hospital for him to be called. 

 

Like I said, I've stayed out of it.  I've kept quiet because I haven't wanted to upset you.  I've not attacked you in anyway.  You are calling me names and insulting me.  I have only ever tried to help you by validating your feelings and giving you support and solutions to work out your problems.

 

Are you saying that he was not at the hospital the day you delivered? 

This whole situation has made me sick to my stomach from day one...for many reasons.  Mostly because I know how sad and upset you are and you feel that you were abandoned and mistreated...and no one deserves to feel that way ever, especially when it's a laboring mama.  To be honest, I have been keeping tabs on you because I was hoping that you would heal and let go of a little bit of the bitterness and resentment (for your sake).  I have been worried about you.

 

 

post #32 of 45

I am not neveraim. We are 2 totally different people. 

 

I am super busy, but I will allocate time to things I find important and things I have compassion for. I found it important to search through the yahoo group to make sure I didn't miss something and then post here with my thoughts/experience. I am not bullying you, I am just providing my side of the story. Our opinions not agreeing does not mean I am bullying you. 

 

The ICAN Chapter you are referring to has been an invaluable resource to many women. It will continue to be an invaluable source to many more. I really hope any woman who reads that desires a VBAC or c/s support will seek out an ICAN chapter.

 

What you experienced was not a result of ICAN. Rather it was a result of the way things played out and of the choices you made for your baby, yourself and your family. Blaming ICAN is not going to change what happened.

post #33 of 45
Thread Starter 

I already can see that you are Abbey, and you are neveraim...same person. And it does not take a genius to see that both of you live near me, used the same doctor, both have had vba3c, and both of you seem to be posting at the same times. I did call the local police department about local cyber stalking laws and turns out, we do have laws against cyberstalking and cyberbullying. You clearly have an agenda and clearly qualify for criminal charges. If you continue to stalk me, I will file a report against you with all your posts and all your emails.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by EElady View Post

I am not neveraim. We are 2 totally different people. 

 

I am super busy, but I will allocate time to things I find important and things I have compassion for. I found it important to search through the yahoo group to make sure I didn't miss something and then post here with my thoughts/experience. I am not bullying you, I am just providing my side of the story. Our opinions not agreeing does not mean I am bullying you. 

 

The ICAN Chapter you are referring to has been an invaluable resource to many women. It will continue to be an invaluable source to many more. I really hope any woman who reads that desires a VBAC or c/s support will seek out an ICAN chapter.

 

What you experienced was not a result of ICAN. Rather it was a result of the way things played out and of the choices you made for your baby, yourself and your family. Blaming ICAN is not going to change what happened.



 

post #34 of 45
Thread Starter 

I am calling you names? Let's see..I said eelady was a cyberbully and a zealot bully...and you say you are the one I am calling names. Are you confusing which name you are posting under now? You should pay better attention when you sign in and out under your different names.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by neveraim View Post

um.  I'm not a genius or anything.  Anyone can look back and see the title of your post that says "39 w-1day pregnant have to find a new OB" and then OB abandonment at 40w 2days...  That equals 8 days.  And I only know what you have told me or what you have posted yourself.  For the record, I did just see this post.  Sorry to dissapoint, but I'm not here every day. 

As you can see on my profile, I have been a member here far before your baby was born.  I am a VBAC advocate and a VBA3C mama myself and I know how his practice works.  You have to actually go to the hospital for him to be called. 

 

Like I said, I've stayed out of it.  I've kept quiet because I haven't wanted to upset you.  I've not attacked you in anyway.  You are calling me names and insulting me.  I have only ever tried to help you by validating your feelings and giving you support and solutions to work out your problems.

 

Are you saying that he was not at the hospital the day you delivered? 

This whole situation has made me sick to my stomach from day one...for many reasons.  Mostly because I know how sad and upset you are and you feel that you were abandoned and mistreated...and no one deserves to feel that way ever, especially when it's a laboring mama.  To be honest, I have been keeping tabs on you because I was hoping that you would heal and let go of a little bit of the bitterness and resentment (for your sake).  I have been worried about you.

 

 



 

post #35 of 45

I am not here under false pretenses.  I have not hidden who I am.  This is a public forum.  Anyone can read everything you've ever posted.  I will gladly supply the emails and posts we have exchanged.  I have never been anything but kind to you.  The only person who has been threatening is you towards me.
 

post #36 of 45

I've been a member of this community since 2006. 

post #37 of 45
Thread Starter 

http://www.haltabuse.org/resources/laws/texas.shtml

 

If you want to make up emails, and put all my personal info out there, and put out false emails under my name...then you will can answer to the police because I will file charges against you. I have never threatened you, but you have threatened me. And you are clearly stalking me.

 

 

http://www.mothering.com/community/a/terms-of-service

post #38 of 45
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by neveraim View Post

I've been a member of this community since 2006. 



Then why did you make up a second name to post under? Since you have no problem with sending me personal emails....and I have not been posting identifying information here, why did you feel the need to make a second name to post under and start attacking me? You are the exact example of how a group can go bad. When you first started to attack me, I should have left the ican group. But I stayed because I was vulnerable. That was where my mistake was. I stayed in a group where people of your sort are..people who stalk someone to attack and bully them...like you have been doing to me for some time. You have made the point I was posting about. About how someone can do something like this and to be careful.

post #39 of 45

ok.  I scanned through those and have broken none of them. How, exactly, have I threatened you?  And how am I stalking you? I think that you'd have to provide evidence of something more than reading a few posts on Mothering.com to qualify for 'stalking'.   I simply disagree with you. 

 

post #40 of 45

You tell me why I would make up a second name to post under.  It doesn't make any sense to me either.  That's because I didn't.  Sheesh, Lisa...If I'd wanted to go incognito, I wouldn't have a picture of my baby as my avatar or post my REAL name in my siggy!

YOU emailed me tonight!  making some kind of a threat!  I did not, and will not respond to you.  You take EVERYTHING anyone says or does and make yourself a victim to it!  I tried to reach out to you months ago.  I have sincerely worried about you!  If anyone here goes back and reads your past posts, it's evident that you have been struggling heavily with depression.  I haven't made anything up (and why would I?) 

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