Anyone else w/ a sleepless Toddler?

[Mothermohawk]

Anyone else going/gone through this?

I have a 2 1/2y.o. that has NEVER slept well. Even as a newborn.

So here's the history:

In the beginning, we tried to allow him to find his own sleeping pattern/schedule, but it just really wasn't working. 

 At about 5 months I started trying to set a schedule. I would watch for his signs of getting close to tired and that's when I would start our routine. We would do bath, story, (no pj's he can't stand them!) laying down and nursing tell he fell asleep. At about 9 months he was totally done with naps but was only waking up 5 or 6 times in a night.  

So, back to today....

We still start a bath at 7:30pm, get a diaper on, story, and in bed at about 8:15-8:30. Then lights out. Both DH and I are in bed with him and sleep all night with him. Every night he does not fall asleep tell 10:30ish and sometimes even passed 11pm. We are down to waking up 2 times at night now and up for the day at 5:45ish to 6am.

I've tried putting him to bed earlier and re-doing our schedule...but it didn't seem to help. I tried being very strict on our schedule but saw it just caused so much more stress. So now it's more like guidelines then set times. We've tried a toddler bed and even had him sleeping alone (still would lay down w/ him to get him to sleep) b/c I thought maybe we were waking him up at night. We give him a snack/drink before bed, play soft music all night and he has a nightlight.  

I have been searching the crap out of this, but don't find much and any tips I do get are ones I don't want to hear....you know, CIO, make him go to be alone, etc.

I stopped nursing him at 2 years and 2 months due to having to leave town for a couple weeks for a family emergency. As hard as I tried to keep up with pumping, I dried up 

Not being able to nurse has made it even harder since that is how I would get him to fall asleep and back to sleep. Also, I could take some valerian root and it seemed to help him sleep a little better. 

Our first Pedi never seemed worried about it....but he also told me that I just needed to swat him & let him CIO b/c that is what he needed  Yeah......I'm looking for a kinder and more holistic approach to the problem.

 What am I doing wrong? Or is this typical and I'm just over reacting? Most everyone I know here has never had this problem and does not believe in AP, co-sleeping, not spanking, CIO and even breastfeeding....sigh...so I feel lost and alone and can't even seem to vent. 

Is this something I should make an appointment with the Pedi? Or do I just need to make changes and/or hold on a little longer? Praying he'll grown out of this soon! 

[newmamalizzy]

Argh, what IS it with people and CIO?  I'm sorry to say I don't have a ton of advice for you, but I just wanted to say - Vent away!!!  And you definitely sound like you need to vent, because after reading your post I feel like I was blessed with a great sleeper after all.  It sounds like you've tried everything that I would try.  Just curious - what's your son's daytime behavior like?  Does he strike you as being overtired, or is he generally even-keeled, relatively cooperative, learning well, growing well, etc.?  Did you ever do an elimination diet when you were nursing?  If so, was there any change in his sleeping? 

[lifeguard]

Sounds very similar to ds. At about 2.5 is when we started the slow transition to him falling asleep on his own & for some reason that made his sleep better overall & for the first time we were able to finally establish a more set "schedule" for sleep. At 3 he is still up once a night many nights & comes to my bed part way through the night a couple times a week.

[balancingact]

No fun.  My 2 year old son has some similar issues, but *usually* only takes an hour to go to sleep.  I don't have any real answers, but just really want to support what you are doing, which is very similar to what we are doing. 

My son started screaming whenever I put him down when he was about 2 months old.  I read all the books, tried lots of options, including getting him to sleep alone.  I found that he sleeps best with me, and needs lots of time to wind down.  He woke up all night long for so very long. 

Where we are now:  What has worked for us is to be fairly strict in our bedtime, although in reality, we have guidelines rather than strict rules.  We have bathtime most nights, read a few books, turn out the lights, and have singing, meditation, and talk about the day.  What I discovered early on is that my son is an intense little boy who is fairly easy during the day, and when he has things to watch/do.  However, this turns into a little boy who needs a lot of time to unwind at night. He doesn't get his tension out in meltdowns.  It just stays inside.  He takes after his dad and me, so I can relate a bit.  Does this sound at all like your son? 

I sleep with my son, while my husband, who has his own sleeping issues, sleeps in the other room.  Once my son is asleep, I get up for a while to snuggle with my husband and get some alone time.  Some nights are great and he sleeps well all night.  Other nights, he tosses and turns all night, usually due to teething or other discomfort.  When he is in discomfort, he wakes up super early, between 5 and 6.  I generally don't let him get up until around 6:30 or 7, depending on the situation.  Lately, I have told him that it is dark and we don't get up until it is light.  Mostly, this has worked for us, although it is VERY time consuming.  We have a very close relationship with our son, and he is an empathetic and sweet boy.  I truly believe that a lot of this has to do with being kind and supportive of his needs, and helping him to get through them.  Some of my friends just throw their kids (usually boys) in bed and let them cry for an hour before they fall asleep.  I just don't believe that this will pay off in the long run.

We have been really strict about naptime, although there were periods where we would spend an hour plus in the room without any sleep.  When he has gotten frustrated with the situation, we just told him that it was naptime and it was important that he tried to sleep.  He had some tantrums at that, which we tried to respond to very kindly.  The "I know this is hard, and mommy wouldn't ask you to sleep unless it was important."  We have a gate on the bedroom door, and have allowed our son at times to get up and open it.  But, then we kindly and gently ask him to close the door because it is time to sleep.

My friends with terrible sleepers say it gets better with time, usually around age 3, sometimes later.  I am lucky that my husband shares in some of the bedtimes, although I do most of it.  Just remember, being empathetic, but still firm will help your son learn to listen to you and be kind to others.  Don't give in to the CIO argument.  We moved houses because urban living next to a family of 4 kids  whose parents CIO'd was too hard.  The mom would throw them out of the house to play on the porch, and they would scream to go back in.  They did not know how to control their anger, because they had never been taught empathy.  The 2-3 year old twin boys cried for an hour every night before they went to sleep.  The parents were angry with us because my work at home husband couldn't deal with the constant noise.  And, these weren't even terrible parents, on the scheme of things.  They did a lot of things right.  But, they didn't have (or choose to have) the emotional energy to deal with their kids emotions, and it was the loudest house in the neighborhood.

OK, sorry this is a book, but hang in there mama.  You are doing good things.  Your son will grow up, and he will learn to sleep by himself.  In the meantime, you are helping give him good tools for LIVING.

[maptome]

My DD (2.5) was impossible to coax into sleep.  She never consistently got as little nighttime sleep as your DS, maybe closer to 9 hours, and then a 45 min nap, if that. We cosleep, she nursed until about 2y2mo when I weaned because of pregnancy.  Weaning made everything get worse for about a month.  And then one day, she just snapped and started sleeping like a normal person for no discernible reason.  Like, she wants to sleep when she's tired! And if she gets up early, she naps a little earlier and longer!  Now she's sleeping maybe 12 hours total in 24 hours with her naps close to 2 hours, like a normal kid.  Oh, and pretty much STTN, except maybe a couple easy wakings a night, tops. I don't know what advice to give you to get to this point.  It really was like a switch, and it's a little hard to believe that it finally happened to me.  I think I've already blocked out how bad the sleep thing was.  My ridiculous theory is that her fontanelle finally closed up.

I would say, don't even bother with your pedi, especially based on the advice you've mentioned.

Make sure he's eating plenty of food.  We do something hearty like oatmeal before bath.

Also, try to not get too stressed out about controlling his sleep.  Keep the bed a happy place.

How are naps?  DD's sleep was really really screwed up when she started refusing a nap.  Eventually, I figured out to put her in the stroller when she was exhausted, put the shade down, like she was a bird, and just walk until she fell asleep.  Sometimes it would take 2 hours, but any little sleep she got really helped her.

[canadianhippie]

aw dont worry! my son has NEVER slept through the night, and at 27 months he still doesnt, i tryed the books and routines and gave up and decided to just go with it and start drinking coffee lol

he went into his own bed in our room last february, now hes been in his own room for 5 months but he still comes into our bed every night, im letting it be, i know eventually he will, I also lay with him every night, oh man tonight it took an hour and a half of lying down

i used to get so frustrated and i stopped and continue to speak gently and softly the whole time, we use music right now ( a cd from the dollar store actually lol and the charlie brown christmas album) played off a laptop for the whole night

keep holding on, i feel as though it must be lovely to have your mummy hold you while u sleep and be there all the time

[Mothermohawk]

Sorry everyone for taking so long to respond. I am really thankful for all your stories and the positive support! Gives me hope and some relief to hear from someone who's in the same boat and who have similar views on dealing with it! I am so sick of hearing how he needs to just CIO, since that's what babies need, right?! 

My son is a pretty active little guy. He is what you would call 'spirited' according to Mary Sheedy Kurcinka's 'Raising Your Spirited Child'. Intense tantrums that can last a life time, sensitive, reactive, deep thinker, etc.. I completely agree on him needing A LOT of down time to get to sleep. I think that is the key, and we have been doing that for sometime now. It's just at the point where I want to pull my hair out b/c I need sleep, DS refuses anyone but me to put him to sleep and I feel like he should see sleep as a positive thing by now, right? Baby number 2 is due in March & I am having meltdowns just thinking about how this is all going to work out when I need to give him so much of my time.

newmamalizzy- I don't believe he is getting near enough sleep he needs. Any time he wakes from his sleep he is the worlds biggest grump. Screaming, crying, whining, even trying to swat at you if you get too close or say the wrong thing. He becomes so easily frustrated resulting in many tantrums. All of this, of course, heightens around the times he's getting close to bed time or his (use to be) nape time. When a miracle does happen and he does take a long nap or sleeps in that morning, he is is such a sweet, happy, cooperative kiddo. Much less 'reckless' in actions. When I was nursing him, I did eliminate dairy & tried to with sugars (but I have a horrible sweet tooth!). I didn't notice any change, but I didn't eliminate much out of my diet, so. 

I'm going to post more later, I have a toddler who's needing my attention bad right now -LOL- I figured if I don't get this part posted I'll never get any response out on this! 

[Aufilia]

My son has never been a great sleeper -- when he was a baby he pretty much only napped in the swing while swaddled -- I became THE expert at swaddling a swinging baby, lol.  When he outgrew the swing at about 6 months he could go a couple weeks straight without taking a nap.  I snapped at about 10 months and decided he WOULD nap SO HELP ME GOD, read every sleep book known to man, and eventually got him semi-scheduled into a 1pm nap.  It took a lot of persistance, though, and very very very slooooow changing of one habit at a time.  For the last year or so he's napped about 95% of the time.

He coslept until 14 months then transitioned to a crib (didn't seem to affect his sleep one way or another but I sleep better without him kicking me all night). He always nursed to sleep until about 18 months because it was taking him an hour or more of rocking to fall asleep, and that's way too much when I have another kid waiting for bedtime and often a dinner I haven't eaten yet.  So now he goes into his crib awake.  He has several stuffed animals he sleeps with, a Fisher Price Aquarium soother that he's had forever, and the music box from his mobile. He doesn't cry in bed, he just talks and talks and talks and talks and plays with his animals and talks and plays with his fishies and talks and talks until he falls asleep.  So while I wouldn't tell you to CIO, I would suggest that you might try letting him wind himself down without your having to be there.  He wouldn't necessarily sleep a whole lot more, but you might regain some time for yourself and prepare him for having to share your time with baby.

If he wakes up before 7 in the morning, I turn on his lights and put him in bed with a pile of  board books, some duplo blocks, some stacking cups, a couple of his buddy animals, a bit of dry cereal in a snack trap cup, and a sippy of water and he entertains himself until 7.  At first he'd last only about 10 minutes but now he'll sometimes be quite happy by himself for 45 minutes or even a bit longer.

DS usually wakes up between 1 and 4 times per night, but a couple months ago I started telling him we would only nurse "when it was time".  When it's not "time" I will pick him up and hold him a minute and then put him back down.  Which hasn't really caused him to wake up less but at least we're not up so long when he does wake.  My daughter started sleeping through the night right around age 2, but she's always had a good internal clock and DS barely has an internal clock at all, which I think is part of his sleep issues.