I need someone to talk to

[ButterflyBaby11]

In a nutshell, I'm contemplating giving my 4-year-old daughter to her dad.  I'm so stressed and I just don't think I can do this anymore.  I'm weak.  I'm a terrible person...and a terrible mother, but I just don't think I can do this anymore. 

Work, school and her dad not working with me on parenting issues is just too much and I don't think I can do this anymore.  My daughter and I are very bonded (co-sleep, etc) but I don't like the child she's become and I blame her father for most of her bad behavior.  He's spent more time with her lately because I'm working more ontop of a crazy school schedule this semesster.  I've fought an uphill battle with him for the past 4 years.  He does what he wants, when he wants.  If daughter doesn't want to wear a coat, he lets her go outside in a t-shirt.  He treats her like a spoiled princess.  He's ruining her.  I feel that I've all but lost my daughter over the way he parents her. 

The thought of walking away from my daughter rips me apart inside but I feel it might be what I need to do.  I don't know.  I've sent her to stay with him from now until December 15.  I'm just not sure if I'll want her back on that date with the overwhelming feelings I'm having right now.  I love her but I just don't think I'm cut out for this "mom" thing after all.  I feel so rotten and unworthy to be her mother.  Her dad never listens to me or respects anything I want...in my mind, he thinks he can parent better than me so maybe I just need to wave the white flag and walk away.  I just don't know anymore  :(  I'm tired.    

[jess in hawaii]

Hugs mama! I know it can be so hard when you are alone and don't feel supported.

I have to ask what kind of arrangement you have with your ex? Do you have any kind of legal agreements? Have you been to mediation? I know alot of times we mothers want to keep things easy and casual with the father, but it often doesn't work. I mean, if we could work things out, see eye to eye, we might be with them, right? It sounds like you need clear, firm boundaries with him about how you will both parent. I encourage you to take charge of the situation and insist on mediation or maybe even parenting classes and if he is unwilling then use whatever legal action is appropriate. You can't dictate everything he does with her, but with a third party involved, there can be negotiation and accountability. You are obviously caring and committed to your daughter, you deserve to be able to raise her and feel good about it. 

On another note, just because she is difficult right now doesn't mean she is ruined. She probably needs you more now than ever! 4 year olds can be willful and defiant, it's up to you to give her good guidance especially if she isn't getting it anywhere else. She might also benefit from preschool, if she isn't in it already. It may not be your ideal, but it might just be better than what you've got. Good Luck!

[ButterflyBaby11]

Thanks.  No, it's not legal.  I've thought about going legal in the past but I thought the "open door" policy we have works better for us.  My school schedule changes semester to semester.  He and I both work shift work.  It's not like we work 9-5 with weekends off so we are flexible on child visitation.  He and I have an "odd" relationship, anyway.  He says he wants to be with me, that he loves me.  But he never moves on his words.  He has never helped me with anything house work related in 4 years.  Here I am juggling everything all by myself and he stands there and tells me he loves me...but never raises a finger to help me.  That alone gets me fired up.  He's controlling...and a plain butthole sometimes.  I had a male friend over to my house to do some baking with him.  My daughters dad and I had a huge fight over me having a male friend over.  Her dad is not "with" me, doesn't help me with anything but thinks he has the right to control who I do and don't hang out with.  It's a never-ending, uphill battle...for 4 years.   

I am pro-gun.  So is he.  We both have guns in our homes.  I expressed my concern for our daughter to NOT play with "toy" guns because I don't want her to think they are toys.  I want her to respect a firearm and if God forbid, some how she'd come across a real gun, she wouldn't touch it for she would know the real danger.  He agreed, to satisfy me.  He goes behind my back and gets her real-looking riffle's to play with, lets her watch him play video games involving guns, etc.  Nothing I say matters.  Nothing I want matters.  I figure, if I can walk away from my daughter, I'll essentially be done with him, as well.  I miss her already.  I won't be with her on Thanksgiving and I'm torn up inside.  But I think it's all for the best.  I'm so stressed and my fuze is so short, I've been a terrible mother lately.  I've been more mad than not towards her and that's not fair.  It's not her fault that I'm drowning in laundry, housework and school work.  It's not her fault that I'm so physically and emotionally drained.  When I finally have a day off to spend with her, I can barely get off of the couch.  We snuggle and cuddle...that's the only thing I have energy for. 

On top of my extreme schedule and lack of energy when I'm home, my child is acting terrible lately!  It's all just too much.  After church Sunday, she ran away from me outside and began digging in the dirt, like a dog.  People were looking at me like I was a terrible mom.  I told her to get off the ground and stop it.  She whined like a dog and barked at me.  I was hungry and didn't feel like cooking (I had to be at work shortly after church) so we went out to eat.  She was somewhat ok while eating but became out of control as we left.  She didn't listen and ran out the door.  Refused to come back in.  She LICKED the window, like a dog.  I gritted my teeth and hung my head with embarrassment. 

She's been defiant over clothes lately.  Her father doesn't push the issue, he just lets her wear a t-shirt in 40 degree F, windy rainy weather.  I force her to wear warm clothes and all he can tell me is, "I wish she'd wear warm clothes for me!".  You. Make. Her.  It's not that hard.  But she's been giving me tons of grief over clothes...more so than usual.  Either things are "too tight" or it "feels weird" or she plain doesn't like it.  Like most other families, our money doesn't grow on trees.  But I try to accomodate her, take her seriously.  I don't want her to wear something if it's too tight or painful.  So, I took her shopping Monday to get over-sized clothes that she will wear.  I spent $160, on top of the clothes that I bought that she won't wear, that I have to chuck now. 

Monday morning at home before shopping, she went thru 3 pairs of underwear.  The first 2 were "too tight" (they were actually big and roomy...I guess the bunching was irritating).  The 3rd pair was the winner.  I gritted my teeth and remained patient.  We went shopping and out to lunch.  In the car and at the store, her underwear didn't bother her.  At the restaurant, they suddently bothered her.  She stuck her hand down her pants to "fix" the undies and refused to take her hand out of her pants (just stood there with her hand in her pants...it looked like she was fondling herself in front of everyone).  She ran around the restaurant, under the tables, growled at the waitress...she was a terror.  I took her into the bathroom and swatted her and made her stay in there until she stopped screaming. I just can't handle her ridiculous outbursts on top of the stress I already have.  Her dad was with us for this incident.  He did and said nothing.  The only thing he did was "rescue" her from the bathroom.  He carried her out like a princess.  He was her hero.  That's what I'm dealing with.  She is daddy's little princess and he is ruining her and I'm at my wits end.

(For the record, there is no chance of abuse with daughter.  She's the opposite of abused...very spoiled rotten.  I know the people who care for her would never harm her...but when a child suddenly starts acting differently, a lot of people wonder about abuse.  Just wanted to nix that idea before somone questioned).

Edited by ButterflyBaby11 - 1/18/12 at 1:14am

[Imakcerka]

Oh wow, you're having a really tough time.  I'm very sorry.

I can relate the "other" not following rules.  He parents completely differently than I do and it's practically unbearable!  You need to some tools to help you through while you're going through an obvious stressful time. 

1. your anger at him is being directed toward her.  Find a way to redirect.

2. If you don't want to be with him, then tell him you don't.  Then make custody legally binding.

3. When she's misbehaving in a way that's inappropriate in public, don't take her to the restroom and swat her, take her home.

Stop all the fun and just go. 

4. Everything that is bothering you about her right now is not really about her.  It's him and how you feel about your situation.  She's just part of the equation but she's 4, she's not the problem.

5. Her misbehavior and her issue with clothes may be something that has nothing to do with being spoiled.

6. Are you jealous of his doting on her and his inability to make things right with you?

That's all I have for now, I truly hope you can get through this.  You really don't want to make a rash decision that will hurt you and her in the long run.  You might want to seek counseling, possibly at your church?

[Oh the Irony]

Four can be a HARD age. It was for my youngest. And me~!

Are you very familiar with MDC? One thing you might find here is that a lot of moms wouldn't force their kids to wear a certain type of clothing. Really, what's so horrible about being underdressed? She gets a bit cold? That's a natural consequence. She either has a different regulating system on her body or she'll learn to put on more clothes.  Are clothes the hill you want to die on?? You have to pick your battles with intense kids and this one imo just isn't worth fighting. She'll be okay. 

The tag and tightness factor can be indicative of sensory issues. They may REALLY irritate the crap out of her. 

Then add in your stress, very legitimate stress, of work, school, parenting and co-parenting and guess what? She FEELS all of it. Kids know! 

My sons behavior was always the worst when I was totally stressed out and exhausted. 

Please don't make decisions when you are in the condition you are in right now. NO MAN is worth giving up your daughter. 

Things will change. They will get better. Will she be in kindie next year? When will you be out of school? 

[ButterflyBaby11]

Thanks to both of your responses. 

I'm not specifically mad at her dad and taking it out on her.  I think it's just EVERYTHING combined making me short fuzed (work, school, every-day responsibilities, dealing with a rotten child).  I'm not jealous of him doting over her.  It just ticks me off that I'm always the bad parent, that he never guides her towards good behavior. 

I am familiar with MDC.  I read articles and practice many things that MDC is about.  I've raised my daughter with MDC values.  Daughter doesn't like hair bows, I don't force them.  Daughter wants to wear mis-matched clothes, I give her my opinion but ultimately let her chose what she wears.  ("I don't think that looks very good, but if YOU like it, I think you should wear it.  It's your body.").  I'm anti-spanking.  I think it's terrible.  But it's what I've done lately to get this stubborn child to do/not do something.  I'm at my max with her bad behavior.

I'm aware of sensory issues.  If she was consistant in defiance, I would be more prone to think she may have sensory issues but she's not consistant.  Monday, a certain pair of underwear (with no tags) are perfectly fine.  Next Monday, that same pair of underwear is an issue.  The same goes for certain pants, shirts, etc.  Some days it takes 10 minutes to get her buckled in the car seat, some days aren't a problem.  Some days she can be a big girl and buckle/unbuckler herself, other days "she can't".  Nothing with her is consistant. 

I've raised her with a "voice".  I've given her options and respected her decision.  I've compromised.  I let her eat lunch items for breakfast...as long as she eats something.  Her life is really quite easy.  There are very little "no's" in her life.  The few things that I DO ask of her result in a battle.  You CAN jump on your bed, but please not the couch...she does the opposite.  TRY your dinner.  If you don't like it, you don't have to eat it but just TRY it.  She starves herself for 48 hours and ends up having some cheese and crackers. 

I'm a pretty "cool" mom, IMO.  I don't think I ask too much of her and it highly irritates me when the few things I ask of her become a war.  I'm on a schedule...I don't have time to wait for her to comply with getting dressed.  I don't have time to let her try on 3 outfits before something "feels right".  I don't have time to be patient or coddle her...I just need her to "get dressed".  She really has turned into a monster lately. 

I'm questioning everything I've done with her the past 4 years.  I have a friend who has NOT given her daughter options and her daughter simply does what she is told.  She wears what her mother tells her to, eats what is on the table, etc.  My daughter acts like the world owes her something.  Friends daughter eats raw veggies dipped in yummy ranch dressing.  My daugher won't even try the dressing and won't eat anything good.  My daughter will starve herself before she eats anything she doesn't want to...and she has starved herself before.  I stopped cooking dinner.  She won't eat anything I make so I stopped cooking (she eats dorito's and donuts for breakfast with her dad and chicken nuggets/mac n cheese for dinner...it's what she's used to).  I'm just beyond fed up with her.  She's what you call a very "spirited/strong willed/spoiled" child. 

She picks her nose and eats boogers (but please keep in mind...she won't even try ranch dressing or eat a veggie.  Please tell me what SENSE that makes?!).  In public, at a restaurant table, wherever...she picks/eats boogers.  (She's not vaccinated and I've read that eating boogers is a natural defense for unvaccinated kids but this is completely unacceptable to me).  I've somewhat stopped her from eating them...but she still picks and wipes boogers all over the house.  It's disgusting.  Overall, she litterally acts like a wild animal...like she's been raised by a pack of wolves.  Nobody helps me guide her towards good behavior so it's a never ending uphill battle and I'm just fed up. 

I will visit with her on Friday, but she will go home with her dad.  I'll see her next Saturday, but she will go home with her dad.  I just don't know how to handle her lately :(  For the time being, I just need a break.  I told her dad that if she comes home (Dec 15) with the same or worse behavior...that he can keep her.  If he wants to raise a spoiled brat, he can be my guest but I won't have any part of it.  I'm so mad over the whole situation, it's ridiculous. 

I was making my daughter a homemade 12-room doll house mansion.  From scratch using cardboard boxes.  Decorating each little room with scrapbook paper and flooring, making cushioned/fabric couches, bunkbeds, canopy beds...really amazing (but very frugal) things.  I was so excited to see her face on Christmas when she received it.  But her behavior lately has me so disgusted.  I don't know if she deserves it.  I'm just so mad!  I'm the coolest mama I know but my daughter doesn't appreciate anything I do for her.  I may change my mind once I cool off for a week.  I'm just at a breaking point. 

Edited by ButterflyBaby11 - 1/18/12 at 1:18am

[Learning_Mum]

Don't have time to write much as I'm literally falling asleep but I wanted to say:

1 - 4yo suck. They are really little a-holes. BUT they do get better!

2 - It sounds like you just need a break. I think some time away from your daughter would be good for you. I think you'll be so relieved to have her home on the 15th.

3 - Really try not to make comments like that to your ex. Deep down I don't think you really mean it and it could come back to bite you in the ass.

4 - Maybe you need to change up the discipline? I know when my kids are being atrocious we end up having a loooooooot of time outs but it doesn't last for long and the behaviour is greatly improved.

5 - Keep making the dollhouse. She will love it and the look on her face will be worth it!

[ButterflyBaby11]

Learning_mum, you just made me smile.  You are a wise woman who just told me exactly what I needed to 'hear'.  Thank you. 

[Imakcerka]

They are A holes aren't they?  So is 6 at my house.  Mean little snot!

You need this time to rebuild you mama. 

[singin'intherain]

Yes! This is just like my kids at four! I don't know how I survived, and it truly does not help to have the other parent thwarting you. That's exactly what he's doing. He rescued her from your discipline tactic? In a public place? At all? You need to set some boundaries with this man, that would solve a lot of problems for you. He does not get to say who you have at your house. He does not get to override your authority. I get along fine with my ex, but I don't go to restaurants with him. I don't think about how he disciplines the kids. Your dd can have different rules at your house. You are just dealing with the worst age right now- you just pick which things are totally intolerable, and discipline her over and over for the next year. By the time she's five, she will have stopped doing a lot of them. But it really does take that long- you won't see any progress for a long time. Try explaining your expectations before the event- ie, "Now before we go into this restaurant, I want to remind you that you will have to stay with me and keep your voice quiet. If you run off or ignore me, we will leave without eating". If you do this kind of thing, and actually leave like you promised when she runs off and starts licking the window, she will get better- but like I said, it takes months at this age to see any improvement. Keep your head up- don't let those looks get to you- you are doing a fabulous job!

[ButterflyBaby11]

I feel like such a fool.  We did some research and discovered that our daughter has many of the characteristics of Sensory Processing Disorder (SPD).  I haven't had time to read much on the topic but I was told that most kids grow out of it, while others may require therapy to help them overcome it.  It all makes perfect sense now.  It's a relief knowing there is a defined "reason" for her behavior but it's kind of sad to think she may need therapy. 

My daughter came home with me Friday (so much for Dec 15 lol).  We missed each other too much.  She was a gem on Friday.  Saturday morning, she wasn't up for 10 minutes and had tried on 3 different pairs of pants...and each one was "too tight".  But we made it through the day.  With SPD, they say kids will "perceive" clothes to be either too tight or too loose, when in fact they are not.  Fascinating!  And it makes perfect sense because her clothes are plenty big but she claims the opposite.  Her undies feel "weird" and drive her absolutely crazy so until I talk to a professional on how to handle it, I'm letting her go comando.  I bought her some super soft fleece outfits and she's doing okay with them, thank God.  It's been a nightmare...and here, I thought she was being plain stubborn or defiant for kicks. 

This is like a light bulb for me and it explains so much.  She hates her hands being messy (glue, paint, sticky food), is very hesitant to try a food (or admit to liking it), picky with her clothes, etc.  These are all symptoms of SPD.  I'm amazed.  Amazed that there is a "condition" for my child's behavior and hopefully guides on how to help her cope with this.  I need to research. 

I had a nice mama break but I was happy to have my baby in my arms again.  Sometimes I just need to step away and vent so I can be a loving mother to her again.  Thanks everyone. 

[laohaire]

I just wanted to give my strong recommendation for this underwear:

http://www.hannaandersson.com/style.asp?from=SC%7c3%7c3%7c24%7c28%7c9%7c%7c&simg=37963_12G

Yes, they are expensive (they come out to $6 a pair) - you can get them for $5 a pair from outlets if you call and order them. But they are completely worth it and will save you money in underwear over time. My DD refuses to wear anything else, and the money we wasted trying other underwear brands was just that - wasted.

If you search on MDC (where this underwear was recommended to me when I was at my wit's end) or Google in general, you will find other mothers saying the exact same thing. That their daughters utterly refuse to wear anything else. We have 6 pair and that's all she needs.

Now, if anyone can figure out what PANTS such a girl can wear, just let me know. Right now we are just rotating the only 3 pairs she will wear.

[ButterflyBaby11]

Thanks, laohaire!  I will give those a try.  Not wearing undies isn't the end of the world...but it's kind of gross.  My daughter contracted MRSA a couple years ago and had outbreaks on her bottom/labia area.  Poor thing :(  Ever since, I bleach all undies/towels/wash clothes to keep MRSA away.  Since she's had MRSA, she's more prone to keep getting it and I've found bleaching undies/towels, etc has really helped.  I can't bleach her good clothes and certainly don't want another MRSA outbreak. 

I bought fleece pants from Kohl's (Jumping Beans brand).  She really likes them!  She wore them yesterday with no problems.  When it came time for bed, I gave her some comfy (baggy) cotton jammies to change into.  She snuck in her closet and grabbed another pair of the fleece pants.  She begged to wear them; said they feel soft on her skin.  So, those have been winners for us so far.  I want to go buy a couple more pairs, but I'm afraid after I do, she'll decide she doesn't like them anymore :p   (I buy all of her clothes big and put temporary hems/stitches in them so they're extra roomy and allow for growth, also). 

http://www.kohls.com/kohlsStore/girls_46x/features/mix_match/jumping_beans/PRD~823659/Jumping+Beans+Printed+Microfleece+Pants.jsp

[jess in hawaii]

Glad you are doing better ButterflyBaby! I had SPD as a child, went to therapy and everything. If that is something she is dealing with, it might not just be clothes and touch sensations, but other environmental factors like light, noise etc. There are a few good books out there (the titles escape me at the moment). The best thing to do is recognize what the triggers are and avoid them, and it sounds like you are already onto that :)

[Mom31]

I walked away from my kids once and it took me two years to get them back. don't do it. DO NOT DO IT.  I was an mdc mama then .... i was burnt out. DON"T DO IT. Whatever it takes don't do it.

[LynnS6]

Totally forum crashing here -- but I wanted to add that the refusal to eat what is put in front of her is ALSO a symptom of SPD. When I first read your post (must've been in the "new posts" because I don't belong here), the fact that she would go 48 hours without eating was a huge red flag for me. Typical kids do eat when they get hungry. Our SPD kids won't. (dh has SPD. Ds has it. They cannot eat certain foods. Ds is actually pretty good, but something simple like lasagna can make him gag. I don't make lasagna anymore). What I'd do for food is always offer one thing that you know she will eat for every meal. Ds hates spaghetti sauce and meatballs. So, when we have spaghetti & meatballs, I serve everything individually. Three of us mix them. Ds eats noodles with parmesan cheese. Is it balanced? No. But over a week, he does get some fruit, some veggies and enough protein. Actually, I serve most of our food individually, without mixing. It makes my SPD guys much happier.

Two books you should look for from the library are:

The Out of Sync Child

Sensational Kids

You might also read over in the Special Needs board. There are a couple of parents over there with SPD kids who can commiserate with you. It also helps to realize that SPD kids aren't stubborn because they won't do something, they're stubborn because they can't. The trick comes in determining when it's a 'won't' situation, and when it's a 'can't'.

(Oh, and I'd echo the stress part. When I'm stressed, my kids act out. Even when you have 2 parents in the home, they feel it. When you add stress + change of residence + different rules at each place, yeah, she's gonna have a hard time. Would it help her to have a schedule laid out for her on a calendar so she can see when she goes where? I know it'll have to change each semester, but that might help her feel more in control. And if you know that the last 2 weeks of the semester are going to be hell for you, maybe that's a good 2 weeks for her to be primarily with dad, and you to get her weekends.)

[Imakcerka]

I'm glad things are going well now.  Don't feel like a fool.  How would any of us know half the stuff we do now if we don't vent, cry and beg for answers?  You're a good mama you just needed to let it out.  All will be okay. 
 

Originally Posted by ButterflyBaby11 

I feel like such a fool.  We did some research and discovered that our daughter has many of the characteristics of Sensory Processing Disorder (SPD).  I haven't had time to read much on the topic but I was told that most kids grow out of it, while others may require therapy to help them overcome it.  It all makes perfect sense now.  It's a relief knowing there is a defined "reason" for her behavior but it's kind of sad to think she may need therapy. 

My daughter came home with me Friday (so much for Dec 15 lol).  We missed each other too much.  She was a gem on Friday.  Saturday morning, she wasn't up for 10 minutes and had tried on 3 different pairs of pants...and each one was "too tight".  But we made it through the day.  With SPD, they say kids will "perceive" clothes to be either too tight or too loose, when in fact they are not.  Fascinating!  And it makes perfect sense because her clothes are plenty big but she claims the opposite.  Her undies feel "weird" and drive her absolutely crazy so until I talk to a professional on how to handle it, I'm letting her go comando.  I bought her some super soft fleece outfits and she's doing okay with them, thank God.  It's been a nightmare...and here, I thought she was being plain stubborn or defiant for kicks. 

This is like a light bulb for me and it explains so much.  She hates her hands being messy (glue, paint, sticky food), is very hesitant to try a food (or admit to liking it), picky with her clothes, etc.  These are all symptoms of SPD.  I'm amazed.  Amazed that there is a "condition" for my child's behavior and hopefully guides on how to help her cope with this.  I need to research. 

I had a nice mama break but I was happy to have my baby in my arms again.  Sometimes I just need to step away and vent so I can be a loving mother to her again.  Thanks everyone. 

[Nickarolaberry]

Chiming in here on the Hanna Andersson underwear. Also for a long time my oldest daughter (who does not have SPD but does have very significant sensory issues) would only reliably wear the Hanna style leggings/dresses. Something about the fact that the elastic wasn't too binding but did hold everything up, and the looseness of the dresses without being too flowy. I dont know. I got some on eBay for decent prices and just rotated them. Eventually she was able to integrate more stuff into her wardrobe.

(It was also true with food...not SPD but severe food reactions through breastmilk and did not eat solids reliably til she was over 2....)

 Hang in there, mama. She's 4...not only does she have these inborn issues, but she senses your stress, she's playing up the differences between you and your x and exploring boundaries in a particularly obnoxious way -- normal for this age, and she's attempting to carve out some control in a world where she feels completely helpless. It's a lot to manage for both of you.

[kryztuh]

You sound completely exhausted and burnt out.  I've been there too, and dealing with a completely uncooperative ex.  Antidepressents made a difference for me.  Just a small dose completely helped with my intense anger and frustration.  Maybe it's worth a shot for you.  Good luck mama.

[MissLotus]

Just read through and glad you're doing a little better and seeing a reason for the behavior that's bothering you. 

What will help so much in the big picture is having real legal boundaries with your ex!  Trust me.  My ex is the type who - even with boundaries - tries to push his way into every situation and is purposely uncooperative, so I know how draining that can be.  But don't let him be a wedge between you and your daughter.  Don't tell him your doubts, your fears.  He'll ask, he'll push.  Just stop having conversations unless they're directly about your daughter.  Don't answer when he calls - and e-mail back.  Anything so you do NOT get into a conversation with him!  It sounds like you're both still emotionally invested in each other to some degree.  So it's just going on and on and driving you crazy.  Start with legal boundaries - even if you both have changing schedules, there can be something that states that you have physical custody and you share legal custody (or whatever you want) and that visitation shall be agreed upon by the parties.  Consult with a lawyer to see what stipulations you can word it with to make your ex more accountable.  Right now there seems to be nothing, so you can't ever move forward that way.  Sure, kids that age can be tough, and especially if there are sensory issues, you may be exhausted anyway.  But I guarantee the situation with your ex is the biggest drain of all.  Boundaries, boundaries, boundaries!