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Is bone broth all that it is hyped up to be? Lets talk about TF myths... - Page 3

post #41 of 65


My husband is like that. He can't stand the way it makes the house smell.He is happy to have the soup i make from the broth however!

For this reason I don't make broth as often as i would like, I have to make the broth over a period of several days, simmering the bones when no one is home,stop a few hours before he comes home, air out the house!  Does anyone know if it smells less using a crockpot?
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SandraMort View Post

 I can't stand how it makes the house smell.

Sandra
 



 



 

post #42 of 65

Do you put spices in the broth from the start? I usually toss in some herbs, like laurel leaf, dill, pepper, parsley greens / roots, or celery root. Then it smells like great food is cooking, not like boiled bones. I know some spices are supposed to be put into the broth at the end, but I compromise because I want the house to smell nice.

post #43 of 65


Before I made my broth the TF way, I only simmered the chicken about and hour so I used to add herbs and spices. Now because I aim at cooking the bones around 12 hours I only put the spices and herbs at the end. I do however put an onion,celery and carrot in the beginning but it does not really help. I can live with the smell, it is DH who suffers. His sense of smell is very sensitive anyway.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DoubleDouble View Post

Do you put spices in the broth from the start? I usually toss in some herbs, like laurel leaf, dill, pepper, parsley greens / roots, or celery root. Then it smells like great food is cooking, not like boiled bones. I know some spices are supposed to be put into the broth at the end, but I compromise because I want the house to smell nice.



 

post #44 of 65

have not read all the posts, just the op's first post! Wanted to direct you to Dr.ellies and her toothe healing method. I know there are a TON of healing stories right here on mothering.com with people who have used her method. we have had our own success as well

 http://askdrellie.blogspot.com/

post #45 of 65

If you have a garage you can cook it in there :) 

 

For what it's worth I can't stand the smell of beef broth and I refuse to make it ever again.

post #46 of 65

Oh, how I wish I had a garage to cook broth in :( I'd use the crock pot in the front porch area where I have an outlet but my upstairs neighbors have a German shepherd who would be far too interested for that to be safe.

 

Sandra

post #47 of 65

just wanted mention, the broth will stink if you are starting with raw bones. Roast them well first. Then cover in water and bubble gently. Add herbs if you like.

post #48 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by JMJ View Post

I think that it is a myth (or at least a common misunderstanding) that there is one TF diet.  There are numerous diets from numerous cultures, and it is difficult to make our modern diets perfectly resemble the exact diet from a culture that lived a long time ago and far, far away.  WAP took detailed notes, but he didn't make notes of exact amounts consumed of every little food and factor in all other lifestyle factors.  For some things, especially through pollution of waters and depletion of soils, the foods we would eat today are not the same as they were then.

 

Nor do we know that any of the individual diets studied by WAP are a panacea for all people of all cultures, just that they worked well in the cultures they were used.  It is clear that the people of individual cultures were using nutrient-rich diets based on the local foods available to them (and they tended to show an amazing ability to search out nutrient-rich foods in their own locales or make ways to travel or trade for them), but it is possible that they were also utilizing diets that worked well with their own genetics.  This can be most clearly seen in the fact that some cultures relied heavily on milk and some did not use dairy at all, and the cultures that relied on milk tended to have a gene that allowed them to digest lactose better than the people from cultures that did not rely on milk.

 

There were some telling similarities that we can take to heart such as the fact that every culture that used grains/beans soaked/sprouted/fermented them and usually served them with an acid, consumed meat with some sort of regularity, and prized certain organ meats and broths.

 

 

OP, reading your post, I can only wonder, have you had your Vitamin D checked recently?


Many good points, and another one is this:   We read about all these different "ideal" traditional diets, and people:

 

1) Assume that it is the whole traditional diet that is beneficial

2) Assume that if some of something was good for traditional people, more of it is even better.

3) Figure that eating the "best" beneficial foods from a bunch of different traditional diets must be be best of all

 

No one, traditionally, has ever lived on a diet that included fatty coldwater fish, avocados, and large amounts of ruminant bone broth.  It's simply impossible. 

 

Humans are highly adaptable omnivores, and as we spread out across the planet, different groups adapted to their different environments by evolving environment-specific diets.   Not every aspect of every traditional diet was "ideal" to the human condition; it was simply the best adaptation available for people living in that particular place and time.   Through trial and error -- and almost certainly through people getting sick or unhealthy or infertile -- groups dveloped the optimal diet for human beings living in that specific area.

 

But when you start to pick and choose bits and pieces, you're almost certainly upsetting a delicate dietary balance, whatever you do.   You might combine two traditional foods practices from cultures on opposite sides of the planet and create a combination which is actively unhealthy -- because each of those practices evolved to fit into a larger picture of food intake.  Something that was beneficial to traditional people who ate it in moderate quantities for three weeks a year might *not* be beneficial eaten in larger quantities every day.  And something that traditional people ate int he months when their preferred foods were not available is not necessarily "healthy" just because "traditional people ate it."

 

What does that have to do with bone broth?  Well, if you think about hunter-gatherers or early farmers, they had bones ... as many bones as animals they killed.  They ate bones in proportion to the meat from the rest of the carcass, and consumed the whole animal and then extracted marrow from bones via boiling.   If you're just buying lots of bones over and over and processing them, you're not eating broth in balance with the rest of the animal.  Is that bad?  Maybe, maybe not!  But it's certain  possible that considering bone broth in isolation, and thinking of it as a neutraceutical product rather than as something to do with the bones after you strip off the meat, is leading people to consume it in ways that may in fact not be the most healthy way for most human beings....

 

 

post #49 of 65

There is not magic food that cures everything. Not a single one. There is not magic food that cures even 50% of vastly different disorders. You might as well stop torturing yourself with tons of kale and gallons of broth and have some butter.

 

Our country goes thought those cycles all the time. If you sit for a while In a quiet room and think for that you will have a whole list of food proclaimed miracle food from blueberries to combuckha , from acai berries to home made yogurt.

 

It does not work like that.

 

People read all those article in mainstream press and drivel like Mercola.com and look for cinnamon to regulate their sugar.  Yes, those spices have that effect but not to a degree that a medication does and then they are surprised to find themselves in ER with sugar of 300.

 

 

Good dies is a diverse diet.  It is also OK to have  some fun. Look at French. Italians. Japanese. Every ethnic diet is combination of very healthy things and some  fun things.

 

IF you have bad teeth and you eat healthy diet, well, it is your genes. We can;t control everything in life. Yest, healthy dies and lifestyle can help our bodies form expressing some genetic time bombs like type 2 diabetes but other thing are not under out control.

 

 What helps with teeth is brushing with fluoride toothpaste, flossing and having them professionally cleaned every 3 months as well as having an aggressive dentist who will fill smallest cavity. I know...it does not not sound that natural. However, this is why in my 40 I still have all my teeth and my mom was already missing 6.

 

 

Autoimmune disorders of joint and muscular system are made better by health diet but in rather indirect ways. Being overweight is bad for joints. Not having other disorders like Diabetes type 2 etc allows one not to take med that have join pain as side effect and so on and so fort. but there is not magical food or food combination that will cure something like RA.

 

There is no magic in broths. Myths...all of it. I grew up up in the country with everyone making everything from scratch and every broth was homemade. So,  people still had health issues. Genes. Other factors.

 

Have some good bread with brie once in a while. Bake a cake with butter, Eat some berries in season and above all, enjoyed life and obsess less.

post #50 of 65

Right here in this thread I am seeing some symptoms of of the mythology and extremism.  NO wheat, ever?  All unsoaked grains are horrible?  Explain all the healthy French people who eat baguettes, or Japanese who include ramen as a regular meal.  Going through two loaves of white bread a week is pretty awful for you, mostly because of the effect on your insulin.  Having one sandwich or bowl of pasta in the same timeframe is really not going to matter unless you have a specific health condition..  As for soaking and sprouting grains, I have gone over the chapter about rye bread in NPD several times and can't find a reference to soaking the rye?  But WAP was highly impressed by the health of that Scandinavian community.

 

Completely agree with the above re: combining calorie dense superfoods from a variety of cultures being a very strange and unnatural way to eat on a daily basis.  The evidence for LOW calorie diets extending life expectancy has caused me to reevaluate my meal planning.  I despise feeling hungry, and do not limit myself or my children from eating enough to feel satisfied (and definitely agree that fat and fiber are better ways to get there than crappy carbs), but I used to actually feel like guzzling fat was actively healthy for us and it's not.  It is definitely possible to be OVER nourished, and this can cause imbalance in vitamins and minerals as well.  

 

Additionally, I have expressed concerns regarding possible (probable?) lead contamination in beef bones that I've tried to have addressed in the tf community over the years with no reassuring response.  We still make it and use it occasionally, but I am not comfortable with large quantities of it for this reason...

post #51 of 65

I am also concerned with the encouragement or enabling of orthorexia within any and all communities that revolve around specific diets.  TF is no more at fault than say, macrobiotic veganism in this respect, but I feel it is a good thing to be aware of, having witnessed the effects on children in this type of family firsthand.  Good teeth are important- so is emotional and social health!  

post #52 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alenushka View Post


 What helps with teeth is brushing with fluoride toothpaste, flossing and having them professionally cleaned every 3 months as well as having an aggressive dentist who will fill smallest cavity. I know...it does not not sound that natural. However, this is why in my 40 I still have all my teeth and my mom was already missing 6.

 

 


I have perfect teeth as well, but my mother did not teach me even to brush regularly.  So I spent the first ten years of my life eating a mix of whole foods and SAD and brushing once a week or so.  I had a cavity in just one baby tooth.  I brush regularly now, but I don't use flouride.  I don't floss.  I have not been to a dentist in over 15 years and that was only to have two sideways wisdom teeth out.  I think I've been to a dentist five times in my whole life.  I have not had my teeth professionally cleaned for about 25 years when I got my first and only filling ever as a teen. 

 

It amazes me how often proponents of mainstream approaches are totally confident that everything that goes right for them is because they have the right answer that everyone needs.  --Kind of an awful lot like those followers of natural fads who think they've found the right answers everyone else needs, eh?  Alenushka I'm not buying it's the flouride and the trusty dentist.  I am not going around telling people what caused my perfect teeth because I quite frankly don't know.  My guess is that a fair bit of it is related to things I have no power over but like you I am actually very satisfied with my choices.

 

I would not eat anything that smelled distasteful to me.  If my body needed those nutrients I believe I would feel attracted to the smell.  My rule #1:  Eat appetizing foods :)   I cannot imagine that a food that engages poorly with your senses is the right one biochemically for you at that time.

 

post #53 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by bri276 View Post  The evidence for LOW calorie diets extending life expectancy has caused me to reevaluate my meal planning.  I despise feeling hungry, and do not limit myself or my children from eating enough to feel satisfied (and definitely agree that fat and fiber are better ways to get there than crappy carbs), but I used to actually feel like guzzling fat was actively healthy for us and it's not.  It is definitely possible to be OVER nourished, and this can cause imbalance in vitamins and minerals as well.  

 

 



I agree--I think overnourishment is central to our health problems.  Some research I've seen showed that the degenerative diseases caused by wheat-centered processed diets didn't exist with those food staples in situations where calories were scarce.  I suspect that the benefits of the nutrient-rich diets are reduced drastically when calories remain high.  I believe overeating to be rare for traditional cultures, because it is too wasteful of energy when each calorie comes through so much work.  

post #54 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by littlest birds View Post


I have perfect teeth as well, but my mother did not teach me even to brush regularly.  So I spent the first ten years of my life eating a mix of whole foods and SAD and brushing once a week or so.  I had a cavity in just one baby tooth.  I brush regularly now, but I don't use flouride.  I don't floss.  I have not been to a dentist in over 15 years and that was only to have two sideways wisdom teeth out.  I think I've been to a dentist five times in my whole life.  I have not had my teeth professionally cleaned for about 25 years when I got my first and only filling ever as a teen. 

 

It amazes me how often proponents of mainstream approaches are totally confident that everything that goes right for them is because they have the right answer that everyone needs.  --Kind of an awful lot like those followers of natural fads who think they've found the right answers everyone else needs, eh?  Alenushka I'm not buying it's the flouride and the trusty dentist.  I am not going around telling people what caused my perfect teeth because I quite frankly don't know.  My guess is that a fair bit of it is related to things I have no power over but like you I am actually very satisfied with my choices.

 


My solution was "extra extra fluoride and the trusty dentist". I ate a perfect diet, I brushed, I flossed... I'd see the dentist and they'd find a new cavity (or two, or five.) Fluoride trays stopped that. My mom had the same problem, she flossed religiously and is friends with her dentist actually, she takes care of her teeth like it's her part time job, and only fluoride trays helped in the end. Strange, huh?

 

bri276, I never thought about orthorexia in this context! You're right, the potential for abuse with all those diets is stunning.

 

post #55 of 65


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by savithny View Post


Many good points, and another one is this:   We read about all these different "ideal" traditional diets, and people:

 

1) Assume that it is the whole traditional diet that is beneficial

2) Assume that if some of something was good for traditional people, more of it is even better.

3) Figure that eating the "best" beneficial foods from a bunch of different traditional diets must be be best of all

 

No one, traditionally, has ever lived on a diet that included fatty coldwater fish, avocados, and large amounts of ruminant bone broth.  It's simply impossible. 

 

Humans are highly adaptable omnivores, and as we spread out across the planet, different groups adapted to their different environments by evolving environment-specific diets.   Not every aspect of every traditional diet was "ideal" to the human condition; it was simply the best adaptation available for people living in that particular place and time.   Through trial and error -- and almost certainly through people getting sick or unhealthy or infertile -- groups dveloped the optimal diet for human beings living in that specific area.

 

But when you start to pick and choose bits and pieces, you're almost certainly upsetting a delicate dietary balance, whatever you do.   You might combine two traditional foods practices from cultures on opposite sides of the planet and create a combination which is actively unhealthy -- because each of those practices evolved to fit into a larger picture of food intake.  Something that was beneficial to traditional people who ate it in moderate quantities for three weeks a year might *not* be beneficial eaten in larger quantities every day.  And something that traditional people ate int he months when their preferred foods were not available is not necessarily "healthy" just because "traditional people ate it."

 

What does that have to do with bone broth?  Well, if you think about hunter-gatherers or early farmers, they had bones ... as many bones as animals they killed.  They ate bones in proportion to the meat from the rest of the carcass, and consumed the whole animal and then extracted marrow from bones via boiling.   If you're just buying lots of bones over and over and processing them, you're not eating broth in balance with the rest of the animal.  Is that bad?  Maybe, maybe not!  But it's certain  possible that considering bone broth in isolation, and thinking of it as a neutraceutical product rather than as something to do with the bones after you strip off the meat, is leading people to consume it in ways that may in fact not be the most healthy way for most human beings....

 

 


Some very good points here.  It gets even more complicated too.  Many of the foods that are available to us today are a whole lot different than the ones consumed traditionally.  Plants and animals have been bread for sweetness and lean muscle content.  Oceans are polluted, and soil is depleted.  Additionally, it's pretty much impossible to know exactly how much of what they ate, and even if we did know, it's pretty much impossible to obtain a diet in the same quantities and qualities as any of the traditional diets out there.  Then, you get into the problem of lifestyle.  Diet is not everything, and our lifestyles do a lot to determine our caloric needs and our Vitamin D intake, for example.  Then, even if we could imitate diet and lifestyle, there is the problem of pollution.  Pollution affects our health and nutrition in so many ways.  We think about the damage it does to our bodies, but we forget that our body is doing everything it can to repair that damage, and it uses our nutrients to do so (especially antioxidants).  Besides attempting to eat clean and avoid other exposures to contaminants, we almost need an unnaturally vitamin/mineral rich diet to compensate.

 

It's easy to get discouraged that nothing is good enough, so why even try to follow a "traditional foods" diet anyway if it's not going to really be a traditional diet?  For me, the answer comes in looking to science.  Dr. Price and others added scientific evidence to aid us in understanding.  We can look at the evidence about GMO's, new methods of growing (aquaponics, etc), sustainable seafood, nutrient-rich foods, deactivating anti-nutrients, hormonal/adrenal issues, gut health, allergies, oxidative stress/damage, disease treatment, food and social health, employment, etc, and work out an informed balance.  There is no "perfect diet," so I'm very skeptical of anyone saying that they eat a perfect diet.

 

Then, there's the issue of what we're given/what we ate as children.  I will always have one leg longer than the other (the bone is longer), a long face, and a high and narrow palate.  A lot of the teeth problems/lack there-of and measures needed to keep our teeth may have to do with what we are given, not just what we do.  These are things that we understand better through Dr. Price.  Degeneration is progressive, generation by generation, and deficiencies can damage our very genes.  Thankfully, it appears that healing is progressive as well, as mothers with narrow faces and palates can give birth to babies with nice, round faces, etc.

post #56 of 65

I had the opportunity to listen to Dr. Natasha Campbell Mc-Bride (creator the GAPS diet) on the Underground Wellness podcast.  She mentioned that some people cannot handle bone broth (and listed the symptoms you did).  Instead of bone broth, she recommended just having regular chicken or beef broth (broth made with the whole carcass).  

post #57 of 65
Very interesting thread! I made some bone broth by cooking 2 lbs of beef soup bones for 16 hours in a slow cooker. The bones were soft and porous at the end of it. Mine is a small cooker and I'd say I got about 3/4 gallon or less of broth. I was curious if it would be too much minerals to give my 17 mo. I was planning to cook rice in it for him.

I'm pretty sure traditional folks didn't worry about the quantity like I do. Again, this may be the problem of trying to adopt nutrient-dense foods from various cultures, it could be a case of "too much of a good thing".
post #58 of 65

My baby has been drinking bone broth formula for several months now, and she just turned 1. She has a cow dairy intolerance, and our goats are dry at this time. So until they have their babies next month, she will continue with the broth. She is absolutely thriving on it. Never have seen such healthy hair, nails and skin. More so then when she was drinking just milk!

post #59 of 65


This is good to know! thanks so sharing!
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BubblingBrooks View Post

My baby has been drinking bone broth formula for several months now, and she just turned 1. She has a cow dairy intolerance, and our goats are dry at this time. So until they have their babies next month, she will continue with the broth. She is absolutely thriving on it. Never have seen such healthy hair, nails and skin. More so then when she was drinking just milk!



 

post #60 of 65
could it be the apple cider vinegar or lemon juice in the broth,if it pulls the minerals out of bone would the bone broth itself do it to teeth?
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