1st day of period??

[eleanorm]

Hi all,

What exactly is the first day of your period? Before there is a real flow I always have 3-4 days of very, very light spotting. Only visible on the toilet paper. Is the 1st day when there is any light spotting, or only when there is a bit of a flow?

I have a very regular 28-29 day cycle, but not knowing which to consider the 1st day of the cycle makes a difference on the likely timing of ovulation. Which is getting more important to know as we try hard to conceive # 3 (unfortunately not happening as easily as the 1st 2)...

Thanks.

[Jaimee]

The first day of AF is your first day of full red flow.  Any days of just spotting are still part of your luteal phase.  But here's the thing... any days you have spotting cannot be counted as part of your fertile LP as the spotting indicates falling progesterone.  It is generally agreed that you need at least 10 (non-spotting) days to sustain a pregnancy.  Do you chart?  Do you know your average LP length?  Spotting prior to AF is not considered normal and can often be helped by supplementing with vitamin B6 (50-100mg) and generally taking a look at your diet and exercise to see where other improvements can be made.  If you are over or under weight, this can affect your progesterone since it is stored in fat.  Also keep in mind that not every cycle is equally fertile.  So you may have some with more pre-AF spotting than others and catching those more fertile cycles could be key.  Good luck!

[eleanorm]

Thanks Jamiee.  Your answer totally makes sense.  I had been searching online for info but nothing explained it for me properly.

As far as I remember, I have almost always had some light spotting before AF.  I don't formally chart as I find I get too obsessed with the whole process and get stressed and can no longer sleep.  Have kept a track of discharges and it suggests that I usually ovulate around day 12-13 - minus 3 days spotting leaves 13 for LP?  But since we have been pro-actively DTD without protection, this also makes it hard to track discharges 

I am a generally pretty healthy 35 yo but I will give the B6 a try and keep my fingers crossed for a lucky month..

[Jaimee]

So you have fertile CF and then dry up on CD 13 or 14 indicating O?  Since CF cannot confirm O, you would need to make the assumption that you O'd the day before you dry up.  If you usually have a 28 or 29 day cycle that would mean your LP is 15 or 16 days long?  While this is possible, it's not common at all.   With this in mind, I would wonder if you are truly Oing when you think you are.  I know you said temping really stresses you out, but maybe you could do it for a few cycles just to get a feel for what's truly happening and then stop.  You could even just temp while you have fertile CF and three days past the spike to cut down on the stress.  This would let you know if your fertile CF is lining up with O, how long your LP truly is, if the spotting is a problem, etc.

[eleanorm]

So, thanks to Jaimee's advice I have started charting with temps.  Now that my period is nearly over I would like to add CD info.

But how do other people check and chart CD when they are busy DTD around ovulation?  I find it very hard to distinguish between CD and 'other fluids'     Any practical advice?

[Jaimee]

It took me a minute to figure out CD.  I'm used to people using CF (cervical fluid) or CM (cervical mucus) as CD generally means cloth diapering.  But I quickly realized the latter wouldn't make much sense!     Cervical discharge?

Okay, so sticky and creamy are easy to distinguish from semen just on sight.  Semen is much more watery, clearish and will soak your panties a bit.  Sticky is crumbly and creamy is lotiony.  The problem comes with EW CF.  Here's what you can do to help.  First, a few hours after DTD, sit on the toilet and do some intense kegels for about a minute.  Really expel all the excess semen you can.  The sperm only need a few hours to get where they are going so this does not decrease your chances of conception.  Then you know any fluid you see after that is yours and not your partner's.  If you're still unsure, you can test the fluid in two ways.  Put some between your fingers and pull you fingers apart.  EW CF will stretch, semen will not.  Look at the fluid in the toilet or some water.  EW CF will ball up and sink, semen will dissolve.

[eleanorm]

Thanks Jaimee - and sorry for the unusual abbreviation.  And as a result of your helpfulness I'm back with another question!

In the past I have always done more of an external check on CF, but now that I (unexpectedly) am finding it more difficult to conceive than before, it's about time to check and chart more thoroughly.

So for the last few days I have been doing an internal check on CF and am I little bit confused.  Externally there is a lot of discharge of a thinner (almost semen-like) consistency.  So much that it marks my underwear or comes out in a large amount when I go to the toilet.  When would suggest fertile CF.  But when I do an internal check I find CF that is quite different - more sticky / creamy and in much lower quantities.

Is it normal for such a huge difference?  I guess the internal 'version' is more accurate??

[Jaimee]

Originally Posted by eleanorm 
So for the last few days I have been doing an internal check on CF and am I little bit confused.  Externally there is a lot of discharge of a thinner (almost semen-like) consistency.  So much that it marks my underwear or comes out in a large amount when I go to the toilet.  When would suggest fertile CF.  But when I do an internal check I find CF that is quite different - more sticky / creamy and in much lower quantities.

Is it normal for such a huge difference?  I guess the internal 'version' is more accurate??

All NFP studies have used external checking only, so generally I would say go only be external observations and always mark the most fertile CF you see in the entire day.  If the thinner fluid is stretchy, then that's EW.
 

[eleanorm]

Well it's about time for an update.  And it's a mixed bag of feelings.  

So I started charting for the first time a few weeks ago.  I had to give up a bit with the CM as (except for the extremes) I found it hard to judge sometimes.  But the morning temps went well.  The obvious temp rise plus the well-timed positive OPK set my mind at ease - at least ovulation is going 'ok'   and we timed DTD pretty well this month.  So I had a few good weeks.  I found that charting, instead of making me feel even more stressed on TTC, it gave me a sense of control and connection with my body.  Finally doing something useful and practical to help things along.

But then came the last week (I'm now 11 DPO) and the horrible, horrible waiting.  I just hate it!!  The over-analysing of all real or imagined symptoms and now I also have a chart to stare at for hours to see if I can find the answer in the pattern .  I really don't feel like we have been successful this month (again ).  And today I think there is a little spotting (almost missable) - which makes me think that the next 3-4 days will be light spotting before AF arrived properly Thursday/Friday.  So not a very healthy looking LP.

Thanks for letting me vent - just feeling a little down this afternoon and disappointed with my body.  

[Jaimee]

Can you share your chart?  The spotting you're seeing could be spotting around the time of expected AF, that is not at all uncommon in pregnancy.  So keep your hopes up and post when you get your BFP or AF arrives.  FX!!!!

[eleanorm]

Sure here it is;

http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/396010

I am really 95% sure that it's not my cycle.  I have absolutely no pregnancy symptoms but plenty of pre-menstrual ones.  And the spotting is continuing and getting a bit heavier.  I will wait to see if my temp drops tomorrow morning.  If not, I may just POAS just to be 100%...

[mckenziefam]

Ok im new and I need some help. I keep seeing post with initials for things, but I don't know what they mean. An example would be AF and DPO? Where would I find info on these terms?

[Mom2IrishBoys]

Originally Posted by mckenziefam 

Ok im new and I need some help. I keep seeing post with initials for things, but I don't know what they mean. An example would be AF and DPO? Where would I find info on these terms?

AF is short for Aunt Flow (period). DPO is Days Past Ovulation.

[Jaimee]

Mckensifam, welcome to MDC!!  Here is a wiki of all almost all the abbreviations and acronyms.  Don't worry, you'll get used to them pretty quickly!  http://www.mothering.com/community/a/abbreviations-and-acronyms

eleanorm, I'm not sure if I agree with FF's assessment of your O day, but FF is having a hard time b/c you didn't record CF data for the days after CD 10.  I highly suggest attempting to identify what you're seeing b/c it's a crucial piece of information when trying to pin down your O day when your temps are not blatantly clear.  I'm leaning toward CD13 instead.  How long is your typical LP?  Is this spotting you're having now around the time of expected AF or prior to it?

[eleanorm]

Hi Mckensifam and welcome to MDC!!  I can sympathise with the confusion with all the acronyms.  I managed to make Jamiee think that my body was producing cloth diapers (CD) instead of mucus!  The danger of being a rookie!!

Hi Jamiee - I also think that CD13 is a possible O day.  Either way, our DTD timing is ok.  I will try next cycle to add more CM information but I find it hard when it is often not clear to me.  Temps are much more 'factual' and I am that kind of person (engineer ).  As for this cycle - a bit of a temp drop this morning and more spotting, but still not enough to count it as a period.  I have always had a day or 2 of spotting pre-period but in recent months (maybe the last 6-9?) this has grown to 3 or 4 days. Given my recent cycles I wouldn't have expect my period to properly start until Saturday/Sunday.  I hope this isn't the case as it would mean 5 or 6 days of spotting.  Now my hope is that the period kicks in properly asap and the number of spotting days start reducing again.

Anyway I'm glad I won't need to be wondering and stressing about it all over the holidays.  I think I will have more than enough stress as all my in-laws are coming to stay for 2 days - 4 adults and a baby .  My silver lining is that I won't have to get through it with absolutely nothing to drink.....