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post #101 of 406
Quote:
Originally Posted by Imakcerka View Post


I have been told before that this is rude to do... and now that I see someone else doing it.  RUDE! 
 



 


I think it is something that is usually rude to do, but its pretty relevant when it is someone who is concerned about not being tracked, but puts enough information on the internet for anyone with a little time and knowledge about how to use a search engine to them that closely.
post #102 of 406
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaileyB View Post

And by the way, it is not my family farm. It is my father in laws dairy farm that is run by him and 1 of his sons (not my husband, he works for himself along with our small, unsubsidized, on the grid, unregistered farm).



I'm sorry, for some reason I had the impression you and your husband were farmers.  What is your husband able to do for himself that doesn't involve government paperwork?  I know (way back in the day) when my ex and I owned a company before our corporation paperwork went through we did a DBA and I believe that required at least one of our SSN's.  It just seems that even when you are self employed the options are limited if you don't have the proper identification. 


What industries allow you to be completely government-form free?

post #103 of 406


I agree.  I think if someone is concerned with not being tracked, the first thing to do would be to get off of the internet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adaline'sMama View Post


I think it is something that is usually rude to do, but its pretty relevant when it is someone who is concerned about not being tracked, but puts enough information on the internet for anyone with a little time and knowledge about how to use a search engine to them that closely.


 

post #104 of 406
Thread Starter 

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Edited by BaileyB - 2/10/12 at 11:42am
post #105 of 406
That. was. not. necessary.

Hope all you want to sister, but the minute you blabbed your kids full name all over the internet you made her more trackable than ANY BC or SSN ever will. Plus, I thought you werent coming back to this thread.
post #106 of 406
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaileyB View Post

AS I SAID IN MY REPLY, WE DO HAVE SSN AND ARE NOT OFF THE GRID. WE HAVE INSURANCE AND THE PROPER PAPERWORK FOR MY HUSBANDS BUSINESS. BECAUSE HE IS A SMALL BUSINESS OWNER WE ARE TIRED OFF ALL THE GOV INTERVENTIONS. THAT IS WHY WE ARE TRYING TO FIND A DIFFERENT WAY OF DOING THINGS. I WOULD LIKE MY CHILDREN TO NOT HAVE TO HAVE TOO MUCH GOV INTERVENTIONS, ETC. AND FIND A DIFFERENT WAY OF DOING THINGS. OMG CONNECT THE FRIGGIN' DOTS!


If I distrusted the government that much, I would not only get a birth cert, but I would get a passport for each child immediately after birth so that I/they could leave the country at a moment's notice.
 

 

post #107 of 406

so how does one add a new baby to health insurance (assuming that's what you meant) without a social security number?  i am pretty sure that's not a possibility, is it?

post #108 of 406

You'd need their social for it.  When I put my family on my insurance I had to wait til I could get a replacement for DD2 since DH thought he lost it... but then found it again...

 

I don't know I think it's important to ask those kinds of questions.  I believe this thread got off course due to the fact it's a hot issue right now.  People dividing and trying to find a better way.  Any way.  This issue simply isn't black or white.  It's interesting.  And I think it's fair to point out that changing who you are starts with questions.  He father in law owning a farm that is subsidized... not abnormal.  My Grandfather own an Irish Pub... and I hate alcohol!  Doesn't make me hypocritical. 

post #109 of 406
Quote:
Originally Posted by Imakcerka View Post

I don't know I think it's important to ask those kinds of questions.  I believe this thread got off course due to the fact it's a hot issue right now.  People dividing and trying to find a better way.  Any way.  This issue simply isn't black or white.  It's interesting.  And I think it's fair to point out that changing who you are starts with questions.  He father in law owning a farm that is subsidized... not abnormal.  My Grandfather own an Irish Pub... and I hate alcohol!  Doesn't make me hypocritical. 

yes, it's good to question if you're trying to make change.  agreed.

 

i think what's happening here is that people are saying, basically, to the OP, "OMG you are making a huge mistake and setting your child up for a very difficult time in life," while pointing out that at the same time enjoying a life that is based upon income generated partially from subsidies and generosity of relatives (stuff like a free house, etc) and naively believing that lack of ssn = anonymity (which has been pretty much shown to be completely false with some commendable advanced googling) might suggest to the OP that she's not thinking this through. at least that's what i get from this. 


 

 

post #110 of 406

I have not read it all.

 

Please a get a birth certificate for your children.  If all that is needed to get a SSN is a birth certificate, you can worry about that if the need arises.

 

Your child may chose a different path than you as an adult that involves a BC and SSN and has a right to - please don't place unnecessary obstacles in their way.

 

Raise them with your values, but have the BC available if they reach adulthood and want it - or even if something happens to you in their childhood (extreme poverty where you need WIC)  and they need it.  

 

post #111 of 406

I haven't read all of the replies, but I can't imagine not getting my kiddos a SSN.  We travel as a family and DD got her passport at age 2.  Everything would be such a pain without an SSN.  Not to mention, taxes, insurance, and all of those fun things.

post #112 of 406
Thread Starter 

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Edited by BaileyB - 2/10/12 at 11:42am
post #113 of 406
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaileyB View Post


 


This is why I asked the question. I didn't know you could get a BC without a SSN. I thought you got them at the same time. I haven't gotten an answer though, on how you get a BC without a SSN.

 


So is this for your kid that is already born? I was just assuming that you were pregnant and wanting to know this for the second child. Most people who have had a baby apply for a BC and know that you have to wait for the BC to arrive to be able to apply for a SSN. I would assume that anyway....


As I said before, its not the fact that you asked the question in the first place that has gotten people riled up. It was really the use of the word "gross" and "double gross" which you apologized for, but then backslid on your apology several times. I think the reason you have been personally targeted about your families choices is because you have stated that you think people receiving assistance is "gross" or you are "disgusted" with it, meanwhile your own family receives government subsidies and on record you home was given/ bought for a small amount from them.

signed,
Small business owner, gun owning, farming, anarchist whose kid(s) have BC and SSN's.
post #114 of 406

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by hildare View Post

yes, it's good to question if you're trying to make change.  agreed.

 

i think what's happening here is that people are saying, basically, to the OP, "OMG you are making a huge mistake and setting your child up for a very difficult time in life," while pointing out that at the same time enjoying a life that is based upon income generated partially from subsidies and generosity of relatives (stuff like a free house, etc) and naively believing that lack of ssn = anonymity (which has been pretty much shown to be completely false with some commendable advanced googling) might suggest to the OP that she's not thinking this through. at least that's what i get from this. 

 

 

There's that and the fact that people who rely on the government for assistance are gross.  I'm pretty sure that's when this thread took a crap. 

post #115 of 406

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by hildare View Post

yes, it's good to question if you're trying to make change.  agreed.

 

i think what's happening here is that people are saying, basically, to the OP, "OMG you are making a huge mistake and setting your child up for a very difficult time in life," while pointing out that at the same time enjoying a life that is based upon income generated partially from subsidies and generosity of relatives (stuff like a free house, etc) and naively believing that lack of ssn = anonymity (which has been pretty much shown to be completely false with some commendable advanced googling) might suggest to the OP that she's not thinking this through. at least that's what i get from this. 


 

 

 

Yes to all this.

 

I think that the clarification from the OP makes me question the decision even further.  Beliefs are good to have.  Questioning things around us and acting on those beliefs in a constructive way is a positive way to make change in our lives.

 

However....

 

It sounds like the OP and her husband are enjoying benefits that her children will not have access to.  If the OP and her husband feel that strongly about their child(ren) not having a SSN I think the first step would be for them, as adults, to step back and make the decision to not use theirs.  See what the practical implications of that decision are.  Live with the consequences and see if they can be worked around in an acceptable (to them) manner.  If so, I think that going ahead and applying that decision to the rest of their family is their right.

 

Also I think the OP needs to consider what benefits her husband and herself have experienced because of the documentation and work of others and figure out how they will do the same for their children.  And if they don't, how their choices impact their children to rise to the same standard of living without undue hardship.  For example, will her children have a house deeded to them by the OP or will they have to go a more conventional route via mortgage or rental?  These are practical consequences to consider.  Not saying one is right or wrong, just considering how circumstances might be different for her children and making a decision based on that knowledge.

 

I just have an issue with the adults experiencing the convenience and benefit associated with documentation and denying those same conveniences and benefits to their children.  That, to me, seems contradictory.

post #116 of 406

And maybe the answer should have just been that you can't.  Good luck in what you decide to do. 

post #117 of 406

The OP referrered to a SS# as a "national tracking number."   I guess I don't get the fear.  As has been outlined in this thread, the Pros of getting a SSN greatly outweigh the Cons, of which there are many.  It makes no sense, and seems to be a really mean thing to do to your kids to have them jump through so many hoops to get their SSN at a later age. 

post #118 of 406

Also, that may be your FIL's farm, but really, you can't deny that you have benefitted from his farm.   So to call your inlaws "gross" is really disprespectful considering that they have helped you out. 

post #119 of 406


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BaileyB View Post


 


This is why I asked the question. I didn't know you could get a BC without a SSN. I thought you got them at the same time. I haven't gotten an answer though, on how you get a BC without a SSN.

 



This page is pretty interesting:

 

http://www.ssa.gov/ssnumber/ss5doc.htm

 

Hopefully you will find some answers there on the ease of getting a SSN - and I would look at both the adult and child forms and see if it is easier to get at one age or another.

 

I also think (and I bet you know this!) that just because you have an SSN, you do not have to supply it to anyone who asks.  (PSA - same deal in Canada).  Here is an article:

http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,1690827,00.html

 

here is an article on getting a BC if you have an unassisted birth:

http://www.unassistedchildbirth.com/uc/birthcertificates.html

 

good luck! 


Edited by purslaine - 11/29/11 at 10:29am
post #120 of 406

Ah, well Karina it would be wise to look up the original purpose of SSN.  Also it's her moral compass... not yours.  If she wants to call her FIL gross... then who cares.  You're being picky.

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