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post #141 of 406

There is more than one kind of box. It's been fairly clear from the beginning that the OP has no real idea in how many ways having a SSN, or in fact having a government, has benefited her, and she wants to exclude her children from these benefits she doesn't understand the origin of, because she's in the Knee-Jerk-Anti-Government box.

post #142 of 406
Quote:
Originally Posted by Imakcerka View Post

What is so wrong with being anti government?  I know numerous Patriots, with lost limbs... children really who haven't quite lived as long as you Karina... but have actually LIVED.  Questioning and disagreeing with our goverment is important. 

Are you saying here what it sounds as if you're saying? That you know people who have lost their limbs through disagreement with our government, taken to violent lengths? You are equating actual LIVING with anti-government violence?
post #143 of 406
I have stayed out of this for fear of being dragged into something I don't care to fight about, but I just want to say this briefly and politely:

I had a UC and all my children have birth certificates and SS#s. I completely believe that in this day and age, living off the grid - to the extreme of not having these documents - does more harm than good in the long run. Children deserve the opportunity to live life the way they see fit - not how you deem it worthy. I want to make my life EASIER for my kids, not drive them crazy when it comes time to get a driver's license or apply for college loans (which they will indeed need because we don't and will never make enough money to pay for higher education outright).

We may be living in the United States of Corporations, but that doesn't mean that the government really gives a hoot about me and my little family - they only care about what we buy and how much we make and spend.

This is a consumer driven nation and although I admire people who are actively trying to change this, I don't anticipate much will come of it in our or our children's lifetime. The almighty dollar is the strongest influence on this country and our government. Period. Nobody really cares about tracking you other then to figure out taxes and spending. If you want to live without taxes, buy and island and declare it a tax-free zone. Don't spend your time and energy trying to evade a government that doesn't really care about "tracking" you, KWIM?
post #144 of 406

 I'm talking about Disabled Veterans. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by zinemama View Post


Are you saying here what it sounds as if you're saying? That you know people who have lost their limbs through disagreement with our government, taken to violent lengths? You are equating actual LIVING with anti-government violence?


 

post #145 of 406
Quote:
Originally Posted by Imakcerka View Post

 I'm talking about Disabled Veterans. 

Ah. I thought maybe you meant people in the militia movement.
post #146 of 406

So, Actual Living is letting the big bad government risk your life and tell you who to kill? But securing the rights of citizenship for your children in case they want them someday is not? There seems to be some sort of disconnect between these two ideas.

post #147 of 406

What I'm saying is there are so many who have been part of it all and are walking away from it now.  Being told who to kill... ha, you know most don't even shoot their guns and lots of them aim away... bet that's something you don't know.  Being told who to kill has nothing to do with this.  Being part of the gov't does.  Not wanting to depend on the gov't and wanting to keep the number system away from your person is fine.  That's what she is trying to do or at least was asking us about. 
 

Actually this isn't the place for this kind of conversation.  You can find me on LOP and GLP. 
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wildwomyn View Post

So, Actual Living is letting the big bad government risk your life and tell you who to kill? But securing the rights of citizenship for your children in case they want them someday is not? There seems to be some sort of disconnect between these two ideas.



 

post #148 of 406

 

Quote:
Children deserve the opportunity to live life the way they see fit - not how you deem it worthy.

 

Which is exactly the point.  Once you're in the database, there is no getting out.  She wants her children to be able to decide for themselves whether or not they want into the system, or not.

 

 

post #149 of 406

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wildwomyn View Post

So, Actual Living is letting the big bad government risk your life and tell you who to kill? But securing the rights of citizenship for your children in case they want them someday is not? There seems to be some sort of disconnect between these two ideas.


I think Imakcerka's post was in direct response to something that Karina said about being young, living, etc. and is probably being misconstrued to mean something else.  Admittedly, Imakcerka, I had to read your post several times to understand what you were trying to say.  In a nutshell, I think that Imakcerka was trying to say that age shouldn't matter when it comes to beliefs about systems good and bad, etc.?  Am I correct?  I think one can take moral positions without having actually clocked a number of years.  I do think, though, being informed about how things truly work are key, no matter what kind of life experience you have. 
 

Edited to say:  Sorry, I cross-posted with Imakcerka.

 

post #150 of 406

I just finished this ENTIRE thread...and was prompted to read it due to the high post count. The OP just wanted to know if you needed a SSN to obtain a BC. To my knowledge, you do not. If the baby is born outside a hospital/birthing center, the parents go to their local Vital Statistics office and register the newborn there. If the child in born in a hospital/birth center, the parents will most likely get a packet of papers to fill out, one with the option to apply for a SSN AFTER the birth certificate has been issued. A person does need an official proof of birth to obtain an SSN. The easiest way to have this proof is with a BC from Vital Statistics. As for all the rest of the conversation, some of it was thought-provoking, well-written, and informative. The rest I read, but chose not to absorb.

 

Personal Experience:

-I was born to an American citizen(soldier) and a Polish national with duel German citizenship in Germany. My mother gave birth in a German hospital. I held duel citizenship with the United States and Germany until I turned 18, when I had to chose a single citizenship(America). I applied for my own SSN using a "birth abroad"certificate when I turned 16. My parents let me make the decision. My two brothers did the same thing, although they were always single citizens(America).

-DH was born to two soldiers on a military installation in Italy. He has always had his "papers"

-DS was born to two American citizens in Germany at a German hospital. He does not have a SSN and has single citizenship with the United States.

 

As a military family coming from military families, we are very much "on the grid" and dependent on "the Man", but we still have choices!

 

post #151 of 406

Yeah, I have no idea what she was saying, either, which is why I didn't respond.   And I agree you don't have to have a number of years to take a moral position.  I just think that the OP has this bizarre kneejerk reaction of "government is baaaad" while not really recognizing how she and her family benefit from it.  But then again, most of the real-life libertarians I know are the ones who have had quite a bit handed to them.  There is a mindset that getting from the government is bad unless you are the one in need. 

post #152 of 406
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamasmoman View Post

I just finished this ENTIRE thread...and was prompted to read it due to the high post count. The OP just wanted to know if you needed a SSN to obtain a BC. To my knowledge, you do not. If the baby is born outside a hospital/birthing center, the parents go to their local Vital Statistics office and register the newborn there. If the child in born in a hospital/birth center, the parents will most likely get a packet of papers to fill out, one with the option to apply for a SSN AFTER the birth certificate has been issued. A person does need an official proof of birth to obtain an SSN. The easiest way to have this proof is with a BC from Vital Statistics. As for all the rest of the conversation, some of it was thought-provoking, well-written, and informative. The rest I read, but chose not to absorb.

 

 

 



I am pretty sure that it's been said at least two or three times now that BCs and SSNs are only linked in that you need a birth certificate to obtain a social security number, not the other way around. In some, or perhaps all states, the process has been streamlined to the point where you can get the SSN ball rolling with the bc paperwork. This was all said before, and will probably be said again.

post #153 of 406
You know, the US isn't the first country to implement mandatory tracking numbers for citizens. We just haven't gotten to the point of tattoing them on people's arms (YET - they're getting really good with RFID!)
post #154 of 406

Since I've been away it sounds like we've come back to the basic idea and gone on to some others.  But my question was never answered....before considering not having your child have a SSN, are you planning to stop using yours to see what difficulties your child might face?
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Charlie's~Angel~ View Post

You know, the US isn't the first country to implement mandatory tracking numbers for citizens. We just haven't gotten to the point of tattoing them on people's arms (YET - they're getting really good with RFID!)


What in the world are you talking about?  I don't think anyone is talking about mandatory SSN tattoos. 

 

ETA:  Ok, a quick google shows that maybe you are referencing the identification numbers tattooed onto prisoners (mostly Jewish) in Nazi concentration camps?  Is that really what the anti-government tracking people are comparing SSN's to?  Because that's just...  dizzy.gif

post #155 of 406
Quote:
Originally Posted by UnassistedMomma View Post

 

 

Which is exactly the point.  Once you're in the database, there is no getting out.  She wants her children to be able to decide for themselves whether or not they want into the system, or not.

 

 


Again, being "in the database" means absolutely nothing if you do not provide any subsequent data.  
 The existence of the number does not allow them to magically find you, magically track your movements, or magically round you up and put you in United Nations Relocation Camps.   If you get the SSN and then never, ever, use it again, they have no way of even knowing if you are alive or dead, let alone where you are, what you're doing, or whether you've submitted to their Forcible Chip Emplacement Program (or whatever the fear of the moment is).

 

If you never *use* the number, it's just a number.   But it is a number that is very, very easy to get if you have a birth certificate, and very, very difficult to get as an adult  without a legitimate birth certificate.

 

As others have said, there's no requirement that you get the SSN right away, but filing for the birth certificate that will make getting the SSN exponentially easier -- and yet does not serve as any kind of "tracking number in the system," --  would seem to be the best plan for a number of reasons.  

 

Since the original question is about birth certificates, not SSN, it's even clearer:  Birth certificates are state, not federal, documents.  There's no DNA submission requirement or tracking number or anything of that nature -- yet having one opens many, many doors to future opportunities, while not having one can be extremely expensive as well as hugely limiting to someone's life choices.

post #156 of 406
Quote:

Originally Posted by BaileyB View Post

 

 

Quote:
I don't understand why not having a SSN is something to laugh about. Your child would not be able to:
be claimed by you as a dependent on your taxes - not a big deal to me
get government services he may be eligible for as a minor - gross
have a bank account/college savings account opened in his name by you - not a big deal, there are other ways to save
apply for financial aid for college - double gross, watch this first video http://inflation.us/videos.html
get a passport - you couldn't pay me enough money to go through airport crap
get a driver's license - this might be a problem
open his own bank account - not a super big deal
get a mortgage
get a state ID
apply for most jobs
collect social security as an adult (if it's still around) -GROSS!!!
What's the benefit of having your life be so constrained?

 


Anonymity and not being taxed, or tracked, etc. is the main reason. As far as bank account, mortgage, getting a job: Bank account in not a big deal. Get a safe in your house, live debt free, pay as you go, etc. Mortgage: buy a for sale by owner home or a rent to own home. Jobs: find a cash only job, etc. There's a lot of illegals with no SSN that get jobs. Or farm, which we do. State ID and driving is the only problem that will have to be worked out.

 

I'm not trying to be combative but there are plenty of good reasons not to have a national tracking number.

 

Sorry, my PC (either that or this site lol) is going so slowly today that I haven't been able to wade through all 8 pages. I only got to 2. But I was wondering if anyone has asked yet what the "gross!" responses above mean? That's not really, um, descriptive of what you may believe or feel about the statements that proceed it. You know?
 

 

post #157 of 406
Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Charlie's~Angel~ View Post

You know, the US isn't the first country to implement mandatory tracking numbers for citizens. We just haven't gotten to the point of tattoing them on people's arms (YET - they're getting really good with RFID!)



Your attitude is pretty la-di-da about what might very well be THE MARK OF THE BEAST!! Have you thought of that?! Well, you should. nono.gif    hide.gif

post #158 of 406

I didn't read all of this, but it has me concerned. Should I expect problems with my UC and getting a SSN? I plan on filing for the birth certificate and all that, but is it a huge pain in the ass to get the SSN?

 

And would it make more sense to have the baby and then head to the hospital afterward? I don't want to be investigated or anything like that. Sorry if this isn't the proper place for such a question, I was just wondering.

post #159 of 406


The birth certificate is proof of birth and the SS office will accept it,we used our youngest DDs BC along with her vaccine record as proof to get her SS card recently.

Quote:
Originally Posted by serenbat View Post

 

 

 

SSN can NOT be got via a birth Certificate you must show proof of birth- your BC means nothing and they will not except it- the hosp sends proof of birth (different) the physician, MF or a ped can also sign this- they have a form at SS that they give you and it states BC is not excepted --- this is for a young child

 

 

we went thru this three years ago

we could not use our BC for our DS and had to have the SS form filled out by his ped

 

ETA - some states do issue BC for stillborns that is one of the reasons BC are not valid  



 

post #160 of 406

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by sharon71 View Post


The birth certificate is proof of birth and the SS office will accept it,we used our youngest DDs BC along with her vaccine record as proof to get her SS card recently.



 


You are correct in the BCs show proof of birth.  The Social Security Administration has published guidelines for what you need to apply for an SSN:

 

http://www.ssa.gov/ssnumber/ss5doc.htm#o-a-us-documents  Click on the requirements for "children" and you will see that Birth Certificates are acceptable as proof of birth.  You do however, have to show that the child lived beyond birth (i.e. proof of identity) and these are the records that can prove identity:

 

  • Adoption decree;
  • Doctor, clinic or hospital record;
  • Religious record (e.g., baptismal record);
  • Daycare center or school record; or
  • School identification card.

 


 

 

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