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post #161 of 406

In PA three years ago they rejected it- you can have a BC and a stillborn - need proof of live birth and their form signed  - http://www.ehow.com/about_5682636_certificate-vs_-certification-live-birth.html

 

also in PA - you do not get a BC at birth issued to you -  the "certificate" from the hosp is not valid in PA - you must request from vital records THEIR copy - I also could not use my BC from when I was born for my passport - I needed to have a requested copy from PA vital records 

 

http://www.portal.health.state.pa.us/portal/server.pt/community/birth_and_death_certificates/11596

 

 

 

post #162 of 406

 

 

Quote:

You do however, have to show that the child lived beyond birth (i.e. proof of identity) and these are the records that can prove identity:

 

  • Adoption decree;
  • Doctor, clinic or hospital record;

you were posting the same time I was!

 

it's all about a signature on their (SS) form! that is what we needed!

 

AND just so you know in PA upon death you must have (again only excepted from vital records) proof of death to clear up death related matters (bills, wills, estate issues, etc)

post #163 of 406
Quote:
Originally Posted by serenbat View Post

 

 

you were posting the same time I was!

 

it's all about a signature on their (SS) form! that is what we needed!

 

AND just so you know in PA upon death you must have (again only excepted from vital records) proof of death to clear up death related matters (bills, wills, estate issues, etc)


I should also note additional info that was posted on the Social Security website:

 

Anyone age 12 or older requesting an original Social Security number card MUST be interviewed by Social Security.

Social Security must verify a birth record for all U.S.-born applicants who apply for an original Social Security number. An exception is made for a parent who applies for a baby’s Social Security number at the hospital when the baby is born. To verify a birth record, Social Security will contact the office that issued it.

All documents must be either originals or copies certified by the issuing agency. We cannot accept photocopies or notarized copies of documents. We also cannot accept a receipt showing you applied for the document.

Get a certified copy of a document showing a birth, marriage or divorce that took place in the U.S.

 

I had forgotten about the whole "certified copy" thing.  Like I said in a previous post, I didn't apply for a social security number until I was in my teens, and I forgot that I had to write away to Kentucky vital statistics to get a certified copy of my birth certificate.  If birth certificates are like court filings, copies don't mean much until you have an official agency-issued stamp on it.  This is likely to happen with birth certificates in some states past the birth date.  Maybe that is why they give you the option now of applying for a social security number at the same time that you're signing off on a birth certificate. 
 

 

post #164 of 406
Quote:
Originally Posted by CatsCradle View Post


I should also note additional info that was posted on the Social Security website:

 

Anyone age 12 or older requesting an original Social Security number card MUST be interviewed by Social Security.

I don't know if something has changed in the past 3 1/2 years, but my eldest did not need to be interviewed, and he was 14. Maybe this is new, or maybe our local office is just that laid back 

post #165 of 406

in PA you can't just go "someplace" and get a copy - you must request via the state form and everything is on-line or by mail

 

also you can't just get any DR to sign off - must be attending OB, or ped (who verifies proof of live birth) you can't just wait and go to any dr and think they will just be willing to certify and yes, SS does check! (at least some do!!)

post #166 of 406
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenlea View Post



I thought it was just an option you check if you want the hospital to forward your info to get the SSN automatically.  Otherwise, if you don't check the box, it means you would have to go to the SSN office and apply for one in person?

 



nod.gif

post #167 of 406
Quote:
Originally Posted by coffeegirl View Post

 

Sorry, my PC (either that or this site lol) is going so slowly today that I haven't been able to wade through all 8 pages. I only got to 2. But I was wondering if anyone has asked yet what the "gross!" responses above mean? That's not really, um, descriptive of what you may believe or feel about the statements that proceed it. You know?
 

 


The whole thread is worth reading.  You'll get the answers you desire and thensome!!!! biglaugh.gif

 

post #168 of 406

J

Just to reiterate a point already made, SSN are voluntary and are not needed until maybe 16 years of age. You can get a passport without a SSN #. What pray tell does a child need a SSN number for? Public School, sure if you want that as an option. Though I would think anyone not wanting to get a SSN for their child would use other methods of education...like home schooling. I really do not wish to debate Home vs public schooling. One should read John Taylor Gatto's "Underground History of American Education" or Charlotte Thomson Iserbyt's "Deliberately Dumbing Down of America" before debating this issue.

 

Some people on this forum seem to gawk at the idea of not having a BC because of the loss of benefits you might get from the government. Let me just say this, you do not get something for nothing. There is a cost for getting tax breaks, daycare, Food Stamps, etc... The cost is, the government (thus the people) has an invested interest in your child, and since it is their money helping support you (familiarize yourself with the concept Parens Patriae written below). Due to this vested interest, they then can pass laws and require you to do things like vaccines, public schooling or heavily regulated home schooling (like here in Ohio). Consider this; there are articles out there of two mothers that chose to take their child off medication because they believed it was doing more harm than good. One of those mothers faces manslaughter charges as the medication kept her son alive, but in terrible pain...according to her. The other lost custody of her daughter. On a personal note, the hospital threatened us with CPS if we chose to leave the hospital before a pediatrician cleared us...usually they release you after 48hrs. At a cost of 3500 a night which of course would be billed to us. After putting up a fight, we got a compromise of 24hrs when in reality we should been out of there in about 4hrs as it was a non-medicated, textbook vaginal delivery of a child still protected in its bags of water. Doctor had to pop the bag after the child came out.

If you believe the government has the right to dictate these things, then sure, get a BC as doing so gives you benefits at little cost. For me, I want to home school my child without the state butting in and telling me what I have to teach. Yes, I'll do the research on how best to educate my child; as I believe in  a true education. I also choose to take my child to the chiropractor instead of a pediatrician. In fact my child has only seen a pediatrician twice, not long after birth, and the chiropractor a dozen or so times. Despite a milk allergy my child is very healthy and only been sick a couple times in the first year of life.

I have gone off topic only to try and illustrate that there are reasons to not get a BC; not just because of the idea of being tracked. Once the child begins to transition to adulthood, then a BC and SSN are more pertinent. Though more difficult to get, you can do it especially if you save all the necessary paperwork. Medical records, affidavits of witnesses, etc...

 

 

 

 

Definition of Parens Patriae:

 

In the United States, the parens patriae doctrine has had its greatest application in the treatment of children, mentally ill persons, and other individuals who are legally incompetent to manage their affairs. The state is the supreme guardian of all children within its jurisdiction, and state courts have the inherent power to intervene to protect the best interests of children whose welfare is jeopardized by controversies between parents. This inherent power is generally supplemented by legislative acts that define the scope of child protection in a state.

(Birth Certificates and Marriage licenses put them in jurisdiction)

 

 

Just a quick FYI about Marriage licenses; a marriage license is a three party contract bringing the state into the newly formed corporation (yes, marriages are in fact corporations...so is the US government for that matter). The state become a vested party in this newly formed corporation and gets a share of the corporate assets....children are assets or HUMAN RESOURCES of the corporation!!! The states exact share I am not sure about, but it is a party in the marriage contract because you signed the marriage license. The benefits of doing this is the state will arbitrate any marriage disputes as well as give tax breaks. I am sure there are other benefits as well.

Secondly, a license is in fact permission to do something that would be illegal to do otherwise. I must ask this question, why is it illegal to marry someone? If it is not illegal, then why do we need the states permission?

post #169 of 406
Quote:
Originally Posted by Akkarin View Post

Definition of Parens Patriae:

 

In the United States, the parens patriae doctrine has had its greatest application in the treatment of children, mentally ill persons, and other individuals who are legally incompetent to manage their affairs. The state is the supreme guardian of all children within its jurisdiction, and state courts have the inherent power to intervene to protect the best interests of children whose welfare is jeopardized by controversies between parents. This inherent power is generally supplemented by legislative acts that define the scope of child protection in a state.

(Birth Certificates and Marriage licenses put them in jurisdiction)

 

The state is supreme guardian of all children, making you the parent, only guardian by it's permission. Since the state grants you guardianship of your child, it can take it away.

post #170 of 406

 

 

Edited by mom2qts - 1/31/12 at 8:36pm
post #171 of 406

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post #172 of 406

 

Thanks for all that illuminating info Akkarin,

 

So, if you divorce then is the states share in the children still intact?

post #173 of 406

I just wanted to chime in that while you may find accepting government services "gross", there are situations where you may wish you did not render your child ineligible. My parents are VERY republican in thinking, so I understand where you are coming from. But my brother was rendered a quadriplegic in a car accident. His medical bills, therapy, and life long medical supplies and care probably total in the millions. However you feel about it, I believe he would not be alive and doing fairly well today if it wasn't for government programs. Not something my parents would opt to collect, but in this situation, they are grateful for it. Just something to think about. 

post #174 of 406
Quote:
Originally Posted by MotheringBliss View Post

 

Thanks for all that illuminating info Akkarin,

 

So, if you divorce then is the states share in the children still intact?



 

Yes, just like your share of the children would be intact.

post #175 of 406
Quote:
Originally Posted by OSUvet View Post

I just wanted to chime in that while you may find accepting government services "gross", there are situations where you may wish you did not render your child ineligible. My parents are VERY republican in thinking, so I understand where you are coming from. But my brother was rendered a quadriplegic in a car accident. His medical bills, therapy, and life long medical supplies and care probably total in the millions. However you feel about it, I believe he would not be alive and doing fairly well today if it wasn't for government programs. Not something my parents would opt to collect, but in this situation, they are grateful for it. Just something to think about. 


I do not believe that "gross" was in reference to people actually in need of government services. I believe it applies to people whom abuse government services. Believe it or not, people have children to get money from the government. Everything they do is to get money from the government....that is sickening.

 

post #176 of 406
Quote:
Originally Posted by Akkarin View Post


I do not believe that "gross" was in reference to people actually in need of government services. I believe it applies to people whom abuse government services. Believe it or not, people have children to get money from the government. Everything they do is to get money from the government....that is sickening.

 


I agree with this. I guess I just wanted to point out that although being dependent is not something you want for your child, in some unfortunate circumstance it could be inevitable. I was not taking offense to the statement on my brother's behalf or anything like that.
 

 

post #177 of 406
Thread Starter 

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Edited by BaileyB - 2/10/12 at 11:45am
post #178 of 406
Thread Starter 

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Edited by BaileyB - 2/10/12 at 11:45am
post #179 of 406
Thread Starter 

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Edited by BaileyB - 2/10/12 at 11:46am
post #180 of 406
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaileyB View Post



OMG I didn't know this was still active. Whoops!

 

I totally agree with the above...and I <3 John Taylor Gatto, we are planning on unschooling and he has some great videos on youtube.

 

As far as the marriage liscenses...we have seriously given thought to becoming 'legally' divorced just to get rid of the tie to the gov. Also, just tonight I got on a website that is suppose to help you figure out which gov. benefits you can qualify for (just out of curiosity)..our total was 79!!!! Holy poop!


The thread was no longer active. I happened to come across it in some google searches and felt strongly compelled to chime in(registered just for this thread). BTW, for anyone interested in getting a passport without either a BC nor a SSN, you can reference the following site:

 

How Can I Apply for a Passport if I Don't Have a U.S. Birth Certificate?

http://studenttravel.about.com/od/planyourtrip/f/nocertificate.htm

 

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