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[Mamja]

Originally Posted by Imakcerka 

I think all states are different, the hospital sent my information to vital records.  I then picked it up from there and was able to request a SSN with the birth certificates.  I've lost SSN cards before and brought in the BC's.  It can be done.

It sounds like you used the birth certificates to get copies of SS cards when the child already had a SSN. Not that you used the BC to register for the SSN in the first place. Is that correct?

[Imakcerka]

It's a JOKE!

[stik]

I'm greatly relieved - I was deeply concerned about the efficacy of the educational system if we can't effectively convey the distinction between countries and continents.

[Imakcerka]

Actually it's not far from some interesting movements going out there. 

How bout just be sovereign citizens!  I think that's what she's going for anyway. 

The "sovereign citizen" movement is a loosely organized collection of groups and individuals who have adopted a right-wing anarchist ideology originating in the theories of a group called the Posse Comitatus in the 1970s. Its adherents believe that virtually all existing government in the United States is illegitimate and they seek to "restore" an idealized, minimalist government that never actually existed. To this end, sovereign citizens wage war against the government and other forms of authority using "paper terrorism" harassment and intimidation tactics, and occasionally resorting to violence.

Without the violence I presume.  I do know of one person who has declared this. 

[Adaline'sMama]

GROSS?

I just dont understand how any of the things your child may need to do as an adult can be "gross", let alone the idea that older people, people who are disabled, and orphaned children receiving their parents social security can be "gross"? Do you realize how offensive that is?


Do you understand that your child will likely grow up to want to be able to drive a car, go to college, get legally married, have a job where they have to pay taxes, and buy a house?

[Imakcerka]

It's the paper terrorism part that got me.  All this work for the Corporation of Mrs. Claire Johnson... Oh but this isn't about politics so I'll just shuffle back under my bench.

[jess in hawaii]

I got birth certificates for all my children, but did not get SSNs till years later when it seemed prudent for us at that time. With my eldest, even though I registered his birth, or thought I did, there was some hang up and it didn't actually get registered. I didn't know until he was 5 and I finally tried to get a copy of the BC. I then had to begin a lengthy and costly process involving court, a lawyer (which took several years to find one who could wrap their mind around what needed to be done), DNA testing, "witnesses" (yes, ALL THIS) and finally a court date just to establish the facts of my son's birth. I highly recommend getting a BC and waiting on the SSN if it makes you feel better, which I totally understand.

[BaileyB]

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Edited by BaileyB - 2/10/12 at 11:26am

[stik]

I appreciate your intent in apologizing, Bailey B, but I'm confused by the wording of your actual apology.  Are you genuinely trying to say that, although people who need assistance aren't gross, you and your family talk about people in such degrading terms that it's hard for you to watch your language in public?  Because that's really the only interpretation I can come up with for what you posted there.  Is there something else that you meant by the words "unique and different view of life"?  I really hope so.  

[D_McG]

Originally Posted by BaileyB 

 I definitely do not think that people that take help when they need it are gross

So what did you mean by gross?

[NightOwlwithowlet]

I was born off the grid with no birth certificate and so were several of my siblings.  It was fine for our parents because they didn't have to prove anything.  But, I wanted to go to college, get job, and a passport.  The amount of time and money I spent to get a birth certificate and a SS# was insane.  I had to track down people who attended the delivery and get sworn affidavits, I had to find my childhood doctor (who had died) and get copies of my medical records, and get my parents to write a statement about why I didn't have a birth certificate.  One of my sisters had to hire a lawyer.

Get the kid a birth certificate and don't get SSN for now, if you don't plan on using it.

[zinemama]

Originally Posted by BaileyB 

I guess I didn't understand "get government services he may be eligible for as a minor" as WIC or food stamps or help like that.

How did you understand it?

[Kelly1101]

All that is gross :(

Originally Posted by Adaline'sMama 

Do you understand that your child will likely grow up to want to be able to drive a car, go to college, get legally married, have a job where they have to pay taxes, and buy a house?

[Mulvah]

I think this is a selfish choice to make, but it is your child and you are the one who would have to answer for your decisions.

Originally Posted by BaileyB 

Anonymity and not being taxed, or tracked, etc. is the main reason. As far as bank account, mortgage, getting a job: Bank account in not a big deal. Get a safe in your house, live debt free, pay as you go, etc. Mortgage: buy a for sale by owner home or a rent to own home. Jobs: find a cash only job, etc. There's a lot of illegals with no SSN that get jobs. Or farm, which we do. State ID and driving is the only problem that will have to be worked out.

I'm not trying to be combative but there are plenty of good reasons not to have a national tracking number.

You do realize not having a social security number doesn't exactly guarantee anonymity, right? 

Originally Posted by zinemama 


All I'm saying is, it's much more difficult to get a SSN as an adult than as a child, particularly if you don't have a BC, as a pp mentioned, and not having one takes a lot of choices off the table.
 

Originally Posted by bri276 

The use of the word gross to describe benefits that allow people to gain access to food and health care that they would otherwise suffer without is making it difficult to respond seriously.

Originally Posted by stik 

I generally think children should have social security numbers, and while I think the many perspectives on that issue are interesting, in this thread, mainly I'm offended by the poster who described accepting government benefits that help people in need as "gross."  Is it also gross to accept government subsidies by driving on interstate highways?  What about buying food grown by farmers who receive government subsidies?  Or accepting a government subsidy to run a farm?  It's infuriating to me that anyone would consider people in need of government assistance "gross."  

Originally Posted by BaileyB 

Thanks for so many answers! I apologize for the word gross the way I applied. Also, I guess I didn't understand "get government services he may be eligible for as a minor" as WIC or food stamps or help like that. I definitely do not think that people that take help when they need it are gross. My family has a very unique and different view of life than almost everyone else we know and sometimes I forget that I am speaking with a broader spectrum of people online. Sorry if my poor choice in words offended anyone.

So, what did you take it to mean?

[Kelly1101]

This.

Hell, using the internet is more detrimental to "anonymity" than having a SSN.  Even if someone posted, for example, the first and middle names of their child-- if it was an unusual spelling, google could bring up all kinds of information on you, last names, addresses, you name it.

Originally Posted by Mulvah 

You do realize not having a social security number doesn't exactly guarantee anonymity, right? 

[Drummer's Wife]

Don't you need a social security number to get health insurance? You might think you can afford to pay for all healthcare out of pocket, but your kid will grow up some day. And will need car insurance and life insurance - both of which also require social security numbers. Surely your child is worth being eligible for insurance policies...

A PP mentioned how expensive and what a pain in the ass it was to get documentation when her parents felt they were above letting the government get involved in their lives. At least she had people who attended her birth that could attest to being a witness; if you have a UC (this is that forum, right?), how much harder would that be for your kid later on in life? It is incredibly naive to think your offspring would ever appreciate being essentially non-existent as far as vital statistics is concerned. It does seem rather selfish to even consider it. Gross, actually.

[pregnova]

Originally Posted by BaileyB 

Anonymity and not being taxed, or tracked, etc. is the main reason. As far as bank account, mortgage, getting a job: Bank account in not a big deal. Get a safe in your house, live debt free, pay as you go, etc. Mortgage: buy a for sale by owner home or a rent to own home. Jobs: find a cash only job, etc. There's a lot of illegals with no SSN that get jobs. Or farm, which we do. State ID and driving is the only problem that will have to be worked out.

I'm not trying to be combative but there are plenty of good reasons not to have a national tracking number.

yes. this. 

We had a hospital birth after a transfer from the birth center and declined the social security number. It was a hassle, and it was even argumentative to the point that we felt 'threatened' a bit, but we did succeed in declining. We also 'accidentally' filled out the birth certificate form incorrectly, and it was sent to us a few months after ds's birth stating that we needed to correct it for a formal copy. We never actually did that, so it's actually possible that ds does not have a birth certificate as well. 

For a next child, we intend to avoid both a state birth certificate and a social security number. There are ways to 'prove' that your child was born and is alive without a state issued form. And, as for it being difficult for your child to 'do' anything in the future, well, that can obviously be presented to your child along with the reasons why you did not get them for him or her in the first place and they may choose to either get them or continue to live without. 

We intend on presenting this fact to ds well before he would intend to have a job or drive a car, and let him choose for himself if the benefits outweigh the 'state' ramifications.

For the record, my partner and I have both lost our birth certificates and social security numbers/cards in the past two years (traveling) and it's yet to present a problem that we can't get around. In fact, there are many people who DO fly, get passports, ect... all without state forms of ID. It's all a matter of what you're comfortable with I guess.

[Kelly1101]

Really?  Tell me more :)
 

Originally Posted by pregnova 

In fact, there are many people who DO fly, get passports, ect... all without state forms of ID. It's all a matter of what you're comfortable with I guess.

[WildKingdom]

I don't understand why not having a SSN is something to laugh about. Your child would not be able to:
be claimed by you as a dependent on your taxes - not a big deal to me
get government services he may be eligible for as a minor - gross
have a bank account/college savings account opened in his name by you - not a big deal, there are other ways to save
apply for financial aid for college - double gross, watch this first video http://inflation.us/videos.html
get a passport - you couldn't pay me enough money to go through airport crap
get a driver's license - this might be a problem
open his own bank account - not a super big deal
get a mortgage
get a state ID
apply for most jobs
collect social security as an adult (if it's still around) -GROSS!!!
What's the benefit of having your life be so constrained?

Estimated cost of college in 18 years- $215,000

Estimated cost of 3 BR house in Southern MN in 25 years- $206,000

Estimated amount of money needed for comfortable requirement in 65 years- $3,147,200

Trying to do all this without a SSN- Priceless.

[stik]

So, what do you say?  How do you imagine that conversation going?  Because in my imagination, it goes something like, 

"Hey, 13-year-old child of mine, just a quick FYI about a decision you need to make.  You know how you could never play organized sports, or do other stuff that's limited by age group, and we never even tried to register you for school?  We never got you a birth certificate.  We didn't think you really needed one.  And you don't, unless you're going to take a job with pay and benefits.  You know, basically anything where you work for someone else and don't work under the table.  So we have this fabulous life of debt-free entrepreneurship planned for you and we think you'll be very successful despite not being able to continue your formal education past high school.  But just in case you ever want to work at Safeway, or lifeguard at the pool down at the country club, you might decide you want a birth cert. and a social security number.  So, if you decide to sell out to The Man, here's a website that tells you what that legal process is like.  Your dad and I will provide sworn affadavits about your birth if you insist."

No one needs an SSN until they need to open a bank account.  So babies only need one if someone opens a savings account in their name that accrues taxable interest.  Your child can legitimately make a decision about that when they're older.  But at least register their births so they can get a birth certificate.  As the partner of someone who CANNOT get a birth certificate because of complicated and unusual circumstances, let me assure you that it is NOT "no big deal" to deal with and work around.  Losing your birth certificate/SSN is a very different situation from not having one and not being able to obtain one.