Apparently the people who feel the need to hide themselves from the Gov't really feel they're sticking it to the Man. And they're not. They know who you are. You're more on the radar than those who get their BC and SSI. If you think you're not, start reading the FBI briefs that they do put out. You're not hiding yourselves very well.
What some of ya'll don't seem to realize is that by living in this country, you have agreed to abide by its laws. If you have issue with the societal norms that create those laws you can a) work to change those laws or b) do what people throughout history have done when they cannot live under some particular societal norms-- migrate.
I don't think it is the law that you have to get a BC or SSN.
Sigh, look up Parens Patriae. The state is the Father of your children. The state becomes the Father in either one of these ways: a, we are all slaves and therefore are children are; or b, the state gets parens patriae from the signature of the BC. Either way the state is the Father.
Sorry - this is a long thread, forgive me if I missed this….
Is this why you do not want a birth certificate for your children?
I honestly think a birth certifiacte is not going to matter one iota if your children need to be removed ( an unlikely event for most people). My neighbours children were removed for serious neglect and I know they did not have birth certificates. The mother did not bother getting one for her youngest (a 4 year old) and had no idea where the older childs was. Really, if anything, the lack of birth certificate made her look even more clueless…..
I do not intend to get my child a BC, I will get my child a passport which is sufficient in proving my child was born in this country. If for some reason a BC is needed, then i would have to go through the hoops of getting a delayed BC.
So let me get this straight... You are afraid and extremely paranoid of THE MAN and what he'll do because of a birth certificate. But you will willingly jump through the hoops needed to get a passport without record of birth so that your kids can have a document with a fricken TRACKING DEVICE embedded in it.
Ooookay then.
*cue X-Files theme song*
Sorry - this is a long thread, forgive me if I missed this….
Is this why you do not want a birth certificate for your children?
I honestly think a birth certifiacte is not going to matter one iota if your children need to be removed ( an unlikely event for most people). My neighbours children were removed for serious neglect and I know they did not have birth certificates. The mother did not bother getting one for her youngest (a 4 year old) and had no idea where the older childs was. Really, if anything, the lack of birth certificate made her look even more clueless…..
All that is mentioned is neglect and abuse. I just simply want to raise my child like the Amish, Mennonites, and all those 'psuedo' Mormon sects out there...without government interference. That is all I am after.
So let me get this straight... You are afraid and extremely paranoid of THE MAN and what he'll do because of a birth certificate. But you will willingly jump through the hoops needed to get a passport without record of birth so that your kids can have a document with a fricken TRACKING DEVICE embedded in it.
Ooookay then.
*cue X-Files theme song*
Do you have a cell phone....that is a tracking device with GPS. Seriously, passport wont go wherever we go...unless we leave the country.
I am done with this thread. Goodbye!
Good luck
I am done with this thread. Goodbye!
I do not believe that was ever said by you to begin with. I'll trudge through it all and see if you did. The Amish and all the others that are doing it are not doing it because they dislike the government. Their situation is much different. Also they do go out into the world at some point to decide what they really want.
All that is mentioned is neglect and abuse. I just simply want to raise my child like the Amish, Mennonites, and all those 'psuedo' Mormon sects out there...without government interference. That is all I am after.
Do you have a cell phone....that is a tracking device with GPS. Seriously, passport wont go wherever we go...unless we leave the country.
The difference is, I don't care. I'm not paranoid of "the man". In fact, even if "the man" makes mistakes, I consider myself extremely BLESSED to live in the country I do. I have the FREEDOM because of people who gave their lives and that FREEDOM gives me the ability to question the government or to make choices or to know if something bad happens to me, I have options available to help my children and I get back on our feet...very few people around the world get that.
I keep my GPS on my phone off (mainly because of radiation purposes). But, I like the fact that if I'm calling 911 and can't speak, my cell phone will provide my location. I like that I don't have to jump through 20000000 hoops to prove my children exist and are mine. Sometimes convenience has a cost and to me that cost doesn't outweigh much.
It's kind of freeing to live a life not paranoid that everyone's out to get me. My kids and I don't have to worry about "ZOMG, they're WATCHING ME!!!" (because we've also been to Asia for extended times and we've seen the REAL man and what it's like to have every.single.move/phone call/piece of mail/email watched and censored. We don't have anything NEAR that.)
So, I'll take my BC and passport and GPSed cell phone and go on my merry little way, happy to have woken up in one of the most free nations on earth, protected by those who give all for the rest of us to have choices. And I can be happy to know that even if our government makes mistakes, they are not personally out to get me--I may not be mainstream, but I have nothing to hide.
And now, I'm kind of screwed. For the rest of the day, I'll have Michael Jackson's "I always feel like somebody's watching me" in my head. Doh. I kind of feel like perhaps it needs to be my new ringtone.
Thanks, currently youtubing it.
And now, I'm kind of screwed. For the rest of the day, I'll have Michael Jackson's "I always feel like somebody's watching me" in my head. Doh. I kind of feel like perhaps it needs to be my new ringtone.
Also, FWIW, we do alternative vaccine schedules (and 1 of my children can't be vaccinated at all), homeschool, and in general don't typically follow the mainstream. But I'm still not afraid of the birth certificate because I'm not doing anything wrong. I have paper trails documenting what needs to be documented and I've never ever once had a problem. No big bad CPS people have come breaking down my door. Nobody's threatened to take my children or throw me in jail. The US government even found me to be a suitable parent by approving me to adopt a child internationally.
Thanks, currently youtubing it.
ROFLMAO!!!! I've never seen the video--is it creepy?
Right but it's better than watching LMFAO's I'm sexing and I know it again. The tech that sits in front of me thinks it's time to "wiggle wiggle wiggle wiggle"... no... no it's not! I can not unsee that!
ROFLMAO!!!! I've never seen the video--is it creepy?
Crunch, ah... makes me hungry. I actually think she realizes that she's talking in circles. All the points she brought up do not make sense. I tried to see it her way and honestly makes me feel like I should be on the FBI's watch list... I'd check if I was but I'm afraid if I put my name in then I will be... 
All that is mentioned is neglect and abuse. I just simply want to raise my child like the Amish, Mennonites, and all those 'psuedo' Mormon sects out there...without government interference. That is all I am after.
Fwiw, I think some Amish and Mennonites do get birth certificates for their children…….
I would urge you to look up how difficult it is to get a birth certificate later in life versus earlier - and do whatever you need to do to make the process of getting of a birth certificate 15 years down the road easier. A google search on "getting a birth certificate as an adult" may help.
If you want a passport, here is link on possibly getting one without a birth certificate.
http://travel.state.gov/passport/get/secondary_evidence/secondary_evidence_4315.html
If your child was born in hospital, I bet there is a birth record or certificate of Live birth kicking around. I am not sure why a BC is inherently more worrisome than a certificate of live birth (a BC is not a tracking devise), but it is your decision.
Given the forum, I'm guessing she had an unassisted birth. :)
But as for Amish and birth certificates...FWIW, I lived near an Amish commune (is that what they're called?) in Michigan. Not only did the Amish have birth certificates (especially the children today, and those 25 years ago when I lived there. A few generations ago? No. But certainly many do now.), many sent their children to the local public school. And...get this...they drove their horse and buggy to WAL-MART! ACK...Amish aren't isolated after all!!!! (And Amish are more likely to get birth certificates than passports because birth certificates don't require that they be photographed....) Traditionally, Amish only educate through 8th grade...then the children all learn farming and homemaking according to pre-determined gender stereotypes.
And not only that--they live in a community. They aren't isolated only doing what they want and only making decisions that they think effect just them. They think about the group as a whole. And if you do something the rest of the group doesn't like, shunning is still in practice (and you can only come back to the group if you repent).
We're going to ignore the fact that I still remember the documentary I watched a while ago about the horrid child abuse and animal abuse cases that were discovered, including poking children's tongues with needles if they stuck their tongue out and the fact that their whole child discipline theory is that children should be submissive and completely obedient. These child abuse cases went on and on because CPS didn't check them out. You know...big brother SHOULD be investigating child abuse--I don't care what your religion is, YOU DON'T ABUSE CHILDREN. And often, when a group of people is so adament about staying out of big brother's eyesight, there's usually something going on that is being swept under the rug.
No, I don't think all amish are abusive. The ones I knew are really wonderful people. But, their culture has abuse, just as our culture does. Except that it doesn't get stopped as quickly because CPS isn't involved. And modern Amish often do obtain birth certificates and some even send their children to public schools. Some use modern medicine and vaccinations as well. (I remember seeing Amish families in our pediatrician's office, in the local hospital, etc.) Fantacizing about other cultures often proves to be inaccurate.
I'm going to guess it's anti-Amish to be posting on MDC though... ;-)
ETA: According to Ohio State University's pamphlet, the Amish do believe government exists to protect the people and the good, and they also vote in local elections & pay taxes. http://ohioline.osu.edu/hyg-fact/5000/5236.html So, in order to vote and pay taxes, they must have at leaset some form of identification....
Fwiw, I think some Amish and Mennonites do get birth certificates for their children…….
I would urge you to look up how difficult it is to get a birth certificate later in life versus earlier - and do whatever you need to do to make the process of getting of a birth certificate 15 years down the road easier. A google search on "getting a birth certificate as an adult" may help.
If you want a passport, here is link on possibly getting one without a birth certificate.
http://travel.state.gov/passport/get/secondary_evidence/secondary_evidence_4315.html
If your child was born in hospital, I bet there is a birth record or certificate of Live birth kicking around. I am not sure why a BC is inherently more worrisome than a certificate of live birth (a BC is not a tracking devise), but it is your decision.
I guess I should have specified. When I said you seem to be the only one who believe the govt is the father of our children its b/c I believe you are perverting what the Parens Patriae is. You are taking bits and pieces and putting them together out of context to legitamize your fears. This doesn't make it true. The Parens Patriae is the idea that the government is the parent of the nation. Thats is actually the exact translation. There is no point in my argueing this idea with you I dont think though. I see it as a safety net for the diabled, children and the elderly you chose to see it as the boogy man lurking and waiting to take control of your children.
Yes, this exactly.
I used to work at a library that got a lot of letters from prisoners who were representing themselves. Often, they'd be full of truly off-kilter interpretations of the law, based on gross misunderstanding of either the words involved or the concepts behind them. (for example, one claimed that we had to give him all the information he asked for, for free, because he had a right to "freedom of speech.") This feels *just* like that.
It's a bit like the folks who think that because Canadian birth certificates are printed by the same company that prints the bank notes, getting a Canadian birth certificate makes a person legally the same as legal currency. It's a jump in the thought process that is simply not supported by logic.
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