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post #81 of 406

all i have to say is that dh and i are anarchists.  actual, old school anarchists.  and our kid(s) have a ssn and birth certificates.  i think doing something otherwise is pretty nuts. 

post #82 of 406
DH and I are also anarchists and our kid(s) have a ssn and birth certificate. Lets try to keep this about ssn's and birth certificates.
post #83 of 406

i was trying to make the point that opposition to the state etc. doesn't necessitate depriving your kid of the ability to live a life of his/her choosing, albeit stating it poorly.

post #84 of 406
Quote:
Originally Posted by amma_mama View Post

I trust that all those who are hiding from "the Man" and evading taxes are not using the roads, parks, and other public goods that are paid by my income taxes.



Who said anything about hiding from 'the man' and evading taxes??  I work, and I pay MORE taxes b/c there are two children that I don't get deductions for.

post #85 of 406


Right, but anything different that what ever everyone else is doing is demonized as trying to evade "doing your part". 
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by UnassistedMomma View Post



Who said anything about hiding from 'the man' and evading taxes??  I work, and I pay MORE taxes b/c there are two children that I don't get deductions for.


 

 

post #86 of 406

Well, the original reason for not getting a SSN is to be "untrackable" by The Man.

 

And, pregnova is talking about evading taxes.   Here:

"Also, why does being paid under the table need imply a $10/hr job?! If you are creative and have a skill set that is worth something to someone else, then there will be some way to be paid relatively anonymously should that be what you want!



And, talking about taxes. The funny thing there is that they are considered 'technically' 'voluntary'....except that there's the whole threat of violence to your person and property should you NOT pay them.... "

 

And here :

"Well, if you want someone to come on here and tell you that they don't pay taxes, I'd imagine that'd be considered illegal right?



So, if anyone is managing that one, then I'd doubt they'd post about it. lol but obviously that's the clear path to living under the grid.



There are a lot of grey areas to the law, a lot of things that aren't entirely clear, particularly if you are a person who is LOOKING for those loopholes so that you can live outside the system." 
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by UnassistedMomma View Post





Who said anything about hiding from 'the man' and evading taxes??  I work, and I pay MORE taxes b/c there are two children that I don't get deductions for.



 

 

post #87 of 406
Quote:
Originally Posted by UnassistedMomma View Post



Who said anything about hiding from 'the man' and evading taxes??  I work, and I pay MORE taxes b/c there are two children that I don't get deductions for.


 

She later backtracked, as she has done throughout this thread, but regardless, it was stated.  I'm sure someone will come up with another brilliant explanation for such a statement, like how she was just hoping to avoid some other tax.  It was mentioned by at least one other person on this thread as well.


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BaileyB View Post


Anonymity and not being taxed, or tracked, etc. is the main reason. As far as bank account, mortgage, getting a job: Bank account in not a big deal. Get a safe in your house, live debt free, pay as you go, etc. Mortgage: buy a for sale by owner home or a rent to own home. Jobs: find a cash only job, etc. There's a lot of illegals with no SSN that get jobs. Or farm, which we do. State ID and driving is the only problem that will have to be worked out.

 

I'm not trying to be combative but there are plenty of good reasons not to have a national tracking number.



 

post #88 of 406

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by BaileyB View Post


Anonymity and not being taxed, or tracked, etc. is the main reason. As far as bank account, mortgage, getting a job: Bank account in not a big deal. Get a safe in your house, live debt free, pay as you go, etc. Mortgage: buy a for sale by owner home or a rent to own home. Jobs: find a cash only job, etc. There's a lot of illegals with no SSN that get jobs. Or farm, which we do. State ID and driving is the only problem that will have to be worked out.

 

I'm not trying to be combative but there are plenty of good reasons not to have a national tracking number.

Interesting idea about farming. What would you say about, say, a dairy farmer in MN who has received a cool half million in government subsidies?  Gross, indeed. 

 

http://farm.ewg.org/persondetail.php?custnumber=A06493416&summlevel=detail

post #89 of 406

Yeah, you're pretty much on the government radar already if you farm. SSNs or no.

post #90 of 406

Eh, either way it's interesting.  You can't be off the grid and have interent unless...  You can't be off the grid and have a phone or drive a licensed vehicle.  You can't be off the grid if you own land... that is taxed... yearly.  You pay taxes for everything you buy... unless you steal it.  People who are truely off the grid do not have it easy.  I know people who have tried and more than once found themselves asking others for help in the way of food or other necessities. 

post #91 of 406
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Edited by BaileyB - 2/10/12 at 11:39am
post #92 of 406
Quote:
Originally Posted by WildKingdom View Post

 

Interesting idea about farming. What would you say about, say, a dairy farmer in MN who has received a cool half million in government subsidies?  Gross, indeed. 

 

http://farm.ewg.org/persondetail.php?custnumber=A06493416&summlevel=detail



 

 

Wow, that's interesting!  So even a farmer is very dependent on the government.  Pretty hypocritical to not want to be "tracked" by the government when you are getting this much money. 

 

post #93 of 406
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Edited by BaileyB - 2/10/12 at 11:40am
post #94 of 406


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BaileyB View Post



Wrong Balzer's sweetheart.



 

That's not your FIL?  Sorry, my mistake. Just a big coincidence, then I guess. 

post #95 of 406
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Edited by BaileyB - 2/10/12 at 11:40am
post #96 of 406
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Edited by BaileyB - 2/10/12 at 11:40am
post #97 of 406


I have been told before that this is rude to do... and now that I see someone else doing it.  RUDE! 
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by WildKingdom View Post


 



 

That's not your FIL?  Sorry, my mistake. Just a big coincidence, then I guess. 



 

post #98 of 406
Quote:
Originally Posted by WildKingdom View Post


 



 

That's not your FIL?  Sorry, my mistake. Just a big coincidence, then I guess. 



Ok, so that is a weird coincidence (especially with names that are not super common) but I think the point is worth discussing.

 

If it is gross when family does not take care of other family members who need assistance so that they use public resources, where is the line for that drawn?  Farms, especially dairy farms, are one of the most subsidized professions in the nation.  The farm listed above took in roughly half a million in direct government subsidies.  I don't think we can calculate how the amount of indirect subsidies (such as price control and market bolstering) an individual farm accepts.  So we can view that (in one way) of that family not taking care of its own people.  Or, we can view it as a way to keep farms from going under so that more people have access to food.  Is that a gross way of using government resources or an acceptable one?

 

And those farms would not be able to operate without official documentation.  Is it worth it for farmers to step back from the grid and only produce for themselves?  What if that leads to further government assistance to those who can no longer afford the higher priced (because of smaller supply) food goods?  Is that off the grid farmer then directly causing others to become part of the grid in order to receive benefits in order to survive?

 

You seem to know about farming issues so I'm asking you for clarification and insight into this issue from an "off the grid" perspective.  And if your family's farm is one of the few which are not subsidized in any way, how is that handled?  How are property taxes and taxes on goods sold handled?  That is just so far from my area of expertise that I'm truly curious how that all works. 

 

 

 

post #99 of 406
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Edited by BaileyB - 2/10/12 at 11:40am
post #100 of 406
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Edited by BaileyB - 2/10/12 at 11:41am
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