Recent converts and cheating

[Neera]

Hi,

We have recently converted to (unstrict) veganism for health reasons. I was vegetarian with the exception of egg and dairy. I gave up egg v. easily but continued having, probably 10% of the dairy that I was having originally. Then I began reading The China Study and the dairy intake became negligible. I haven't finished The China Study but am wondering if what we (all of us in the family eat a small amt. here and there, small piece of bday cake at parties, if a small amt of dairy is present in a pre-prepared platter etc) are experiencing is what the book states as a fact that in rural and urban Chinese socities the author found they consumed small amts. of animal protein. So, was wondering if this is a natural need of the body or just simply a craving from eliminating it almost completely.

Thanks.

Edited by Neera - 12/15/11 at 7:32pm

[heatherr30]

Hi Neera

I am not a practicing vegan but I have read the book "Plant Based Nutrition and Health" by Stephen Walsh PhD, published in 2003. 

Apparently, one should not become a total vegan based on their health.  Perhaps a vegan diet "can" be just as healthy as a vegetarian diet, but many of us are too busy and not informed enough to plan our diets and take all the correct supplements.  In the book Walsh states that as a group, those who include either fish, moderate levels of milk and eggs, or occasianal (less than once a week) meat have the lowest mortality rates. (He goes on in the book to outline how to follow a vegan diet in the healthiest way possible).

Of course, no one knows if perhpas the results of the data are skewed by the vegans who don't take their supplements, plan carefully, etc.  But I think it's fair to say that, if you are craving some milk products, it would be ok to include those in your diet (in the healthiest form possible, of course, not for the sake of eating cake!! :))  on the grounds that it could very well be your body telling you that you need it.  A glass of kefir or some plain yoghurt in the morning, for example, could even have some health benefits.

Of course, if you have moral objections to consuming milk and eggs this is a different matter.  Health-wise however I would be interested to see any studies suggesting giving up all animal products for health reasons.  Most of us just need to cut down, not cut them totally out.

[Neera]

Thanks. I just saw your reply. i will look at the book u mentioned. Yeah I agree, eating cake probably is a craving for a processed, highly sweet and rich food item not just for the dairy in it.

Edit: I should have added: Still crave cheese.

Edited by Neera - 12/18/11 at 8:22am

[hippiemombian]

[heatherr30]

Hmmmm... I think craving things is our body's way of telling us we need more of something!  If you are craving high-fat, high-protein foods this could be your body's way of saying you need something...  I am used to cravings because I have been pg or bfing for the last 5 years! Now I am bfing and need at least 3000 calories a day to keep from losing weight (I am borderline underweight).  I have recently resolved to give up junk food cause I have noticed my family copying my poor eating habits, and I want to set a good example so my kids eat right.  But it was very hard in the beginning because I didn't know what to replace those calories with and I was hungry all the time and losing weight.  High fat foods were easy to find such as nut butters or drizzling veg or beans with plenty of olive oil.  (Of course milk and cheese have fats too but these are not so healthy in large amounts.)  Protein was a bit more difficult.  I didn't realize how much protein you can get from dairy and as I also wanted to cut down on dairy I have had to search for alternate sources of protein.  I found that making burgers or loafs from lentils, or mashing beans (ie refried beans) makes the calories more dense than eating them boiled where lots of what you are eating is actually just water.  I also add chopped nuts to some of the recipes.  And bread seems more filling than boiled grains so I have been eating lots of healthy whole grain breads.  But you probably already know all that if you have been vegetarian for some time.

Have you tried keeping a food diary for a day or two and counting up your fat, protein, and total calories to make sure it is enough?  And do you get enough calcium from other foods or supplements? 

Other than that I don't really see a health problem from eating cheese in small amounts.  Your body needs some fats and even saturated fats are ok in small amounts.  There is some evidence that people do best on the local diets of where they come from (ie westeners can handle milk products better than asians for ex). 

I am not trying to talk you into eating cheese--I also feel that a vegan diet is the best one for our planet--I am just throwing out the possibility that it might not be necessary to be 100% vegan to see health benefits... and that any reduction in animal products helps our environment.   It is a very personal decision. 

[Neera]

I also feel that way that it may be my body's way of informing the lack of those fats?? I don't know. I know that the vegan diet is the best for the planet and I have seen videos on factory farming and I wonder how I could be so callous as to know of those horrendous farming methods and still eat a piece of cheese without a care. I hate all meats. Once I stopped them I just couldn't go back to eating them so my body adapted well to that. I think The China Study just made me curious about the fact because the author studies omnivores and makes that group of people an example to follow but repeatedly advices a vegan diet and never any animal products. I just realized I should google a China Study forum and see what is being said there.

Thanks.