UPDATE in newest post, of sorts...Is there any way I can feel comfortable with this school?... - Page 2

[whatsnextmom]

Originally Posted by Tigerle 

I think I need to go to counseling before having my kids start school! they don't deserve having such a traumatized nutcase advocating for them.

Did seeing your kids have positive experiences help you overcome your own baggage? So far, I've been (mostly) pleasantly surprised by my child's preschool teachers and it has been helpful for me, too. In the preschool's case though I felt an immediate connection with the headteacher who I could tell had an incredibly open mind, a wealth of experience and the readiness to let go of (most, let's not get greedy) pre-conceived notions which has helped me trust that my child might be able to deal with the rest of the staff who does not demonstrate these qualities (in theory, she's his classroom teacher too and he loves her, but she spends more time doing admin in the office than the classroom. I shall try to draw her out on the subject of the elementary principal, after all she should know her really well as they have to work closely together, because I do trust her opinion in most matters).

On the subject of K or 1st grade:

he's a kindergartner now. Formal school starts in 1st grade only, and K is a pull-out program in pre-school. He was entered on the recommendation of the preschool teachers, which is merely informal and is not binding upon elementary schools (in fact, schools are sometimes quite unhappy because parents and children expect it to be and may insist on early entry into 1st even though the school is against). So it's either 1st grade now, young for grade (he's only born about 2 weeks past the cutoff or 1st grade next year, old for grade). I do not think that he (nor the school iykwim) would be good candidates for a grade skip, so this is it as far as acceleration goes.

You aren't a nutcase. It's totally natural to be want save your child your own heartaches. Believe me, I still freak out internally at every transition but I've learned not to "borrow trouble" and let the kids have their own experiences. They haven't ALL been good. We just pulled DS 11 out of a program he loved because of bully issues that just couldn't be controlled (not for lack of trying on every part except the actual bullies and their parents.) We have decided to pull DD 14 out of her current high school end of the year... lovely interest based classmates but she is hungry for intellectual depth and discussion that no teacher or student seems willing or able to give her. However, because the kids experiences overall with school have been so positive and because to date, it's always been clear that the adults around them listen and take action, these issues are only unfortunate... not scarring. My kids still love school. They know they have a voice and that anything can be fixed one way or another. 

We have dealt with tools before. DS had a principal that was just an idiot when it came to gifted education. He was condescending and totally ignorant. However, the staff was smarter. The parents were active, involved and vocal. Everyone worked around him and in 2 years, he was quietly removed from the district.

If your DS isn't given early enrollment this year, anyway he could just skip to 2nd next year? Those cut-offs can be frustrating. In our area, he'd make the cut by more than a month.

[Tigerle]

Originally Posted by serenbat 

I wasn't yelling! (?)

I felt bad for you. 

Ah I get it - you were groaning, right? Thank you for your sympathy! I felt like groaning several times during that evening, and I am afraid I'll groan a lot more while puting my kids through school. Sorry for not getting it in the first place.

[Tigerle]

Originally Posted by AAK 

However, at conference, the teacher made a POINT of telling me that she isn't the smartest in class!  I honestly don't know where this came from.  I didn't ask for more challenging material, I didn't ask if she was ahead/behind/or in the middle.  I didn't suggest that she should be in first.  I don't think she should be in first!  With her being my third (following a gifted 1st and a potentially 2e 2nd dd who struggles with dyslexia) my perspective and priorities have really shifted.  But it really grinds on me that the teacher should feel the need to tell me that my kid "isn't the smartest". 

I don't know.  I guess I would say "no". . . the positive experiences are nice, but they haven't helped me overcome my own baggage in the least.  

Amy
 

Yeah, I bet that was quite a deja vu-feeling! the reflexive need to put gifted kids down with no other provocation than that they exist rearing its ugly head again, wasn't it? No wonder you feel your baggage isn't going away, with those subtle reminders time and again...

As long as that teacher appears to only feel the need to be annoying towards That Mom and not your child, I guess you have no choice but to suck it up, smile and nod...and if you had needed it, there is your confirmation that yes, she must be the smartest kid in class and by a long shot. Funny how it doesn't seem to occur to them that the thing we'd really crave to hear would be something like "there are a couple of kids just like her in class and it is just wonderful to see how they inspire one another!"

I'm rooting for your daughters from over here...

[Tigerle]

Originally Posted by whatsnextmom 

You aren't a nutcase. It's totally natural to be want save your child your own heartaches. Believe me, I still freak out internally at every transition but I've learned not to "borrow trouble" and let the kids have their own experiences. They haven't ALL been good. We just pulled DS 11 out of a program he loved because of bully issues that just couldn't be controlled (not for lack of trying on every part except the actual bullies and their parents.) We have decided to pull DD 14 out of her current high school end of the year... lovely interest based classmates but she is hungry for intellectual depth and discussion that no teacher or student seems willing or able to give her. However, because the kids experiences overall with school have been so positive and because to date, it's always been clear that the adults around them listen and take action, these issues are only unfortunate... not scarring. My kids still love school. They know they have a voice and that anything can be fixed one way or another. 

We have dealt with tools before. DS had a principal that was just an idiot when it came to gifted education. He was condescending and totally ignorant. However, the staff was smarter. The parents were active, involved and vocal. Everyone worked around him and in 2 years, he was quietly removed from the district.

If your DS isn't given early enrollment this year, anyway he could just skip to 2nd next year? Those cut-offs can be frustrating. In our area, he'd make the cut by more than a month.

I am sorry to hear about your kids' experience. On loves the program and is being bullied out by the classmates and the other loves the classmates but is underwhelmed by the program...what an irony and what a mess. It is great that your kids are by now strong and resilient enough to not have this destroy their feeling of self-worth and their love of school.

I tend to think that as long as we can get through elementary alright, by middle school (5th grade) we can all deal. Of course, coloured by my own life experience again. But they are just so vulnerable between 5 and 10!

There is no enrolment directly into 2nd. Crystal clear state policy. Enrolment exclusively into 1st, with a mid-year grade skip directly into 2nd the earliest possible form of acceleration. It's the scenario I want to avoid at all cost (the foremost reason probably being that this very form of grade skip, while a breeze academically, was such a disaster for me socially). However, even if I did not have that baggage (baggage? We're talking about a whole cargo hold here!) I do not think DS would be a good candidate for a grade skip, he's just way quirkier than I ever was. At least I was a perfect high achiever. And I bet he'd be like the first kid ever in the history of the whole school and so on and so forth...I just have the experience that if the teachers aren't behind it wholeheartedly (and how could they, if it's such an outrageous thing to do) it won't work out well.

DH went to the Montessori school's orientation evening and while he said there was a lot of good stuff, he was a bit bothered by the way they talked about some kids "being through with the elementary school material in three years, other kids taking five years" and making it sound as if a grade skip into 5th grade in state college prep school after three years of lower el in Montessori were the only option (to align classes with state school transitions, lower el in this school is grades 1 through 4 and upper el grades 5 and 6, with the upper el classroom offered only as vocational track, not college prep track and thus completely unsuitable for advanced kids), as opposed to the advanced kids simply being given 5th grade material. I suppose it might be a good option if I were happy with leaving him in his current play-based preschool but while it was okay for him until now, what's on offer has run its course, he wants to learn!

I just want DS be happy and busy and keep his love of learning somewhere for four years like other kids, and in order to have him not stand out too much I think he ought te be on the young side rather than the old! It shouldn't be so hard to get that across, should it?

[AAK]

Originally Posted by Tigerle 

Yeah, I bet that was quite a deja vu-feeling! the reflexive need to put gifted kids down with no other provocation than that they exist rearing its ugly head again, wasn't it? No wonder you feel your baggage isn't going away, with those subtle reminders time and again...

As long as that teacher appears to only feel the need to be annoying towards That Mom and not your child, I guess you have no choice but to suck it up, smile and nod...and if you had needed it, there is your confirmation that yes, she must be the smartest kid in class and by a long shot. Funny how it doesn't seem to occur to them that the thing we'd really crave to hear would be something like "there are a couple of kids just like her in class and it is just wonderful to see how they inspire one another!"

I'm rooting for your daughters from over here...

Thanks Tigerle,

It was terrible to be honest.  The first grade teacher had said it (with attitude) when I was requesting my oldest to be tested for the gifted program.  So, that time I thought it was in response to me--I was hoping the gifted program would give her the stimulation she needed.  It felt like they wanted to say she didn't need more stimulation because there are others who are smarter.  But this time, I didn't even bring it up.  And, yeah from my own childhood I had to fight to get what I needed too.  So, I guess that connects us to the old baggage.  :-)

[Tigerle]

I've been on a bit of an updating roll and I figured I'd like to share some more information on this conundrum...I've come to realize now I really like to process my thoughts writing here, and maybe someone has something interesting to say! :)

We've had the Big School Entry Conference with the pre-school teachers who teach the K pull-out (and have also been DS' classroom teachers for the past 2-and-a- bit years).

While they did start out with the socio-emotional weaknesses they see (low frustration tolerance, low impulse control) it appears mainly they wanted to see just how much we were aware of these and whether we were doing anything about them at home - which we assured them we were, had been and were going to be. While they wanted to make sure we were aware they said, they also unreservedly recommended early entry. The reasons being that they were only apparent during free play and other social situations, hardly ever ever during the K pull-out or other structured activities, that they didn't feel that this was going to change magically by waiting another year, and that he could work on those in school as well as in pre-school. To which I added that school being the more structured place, he might even feel more comfortable, and that being disengaged for lack of challenge, as he would surely be if he were entered a year later, wasn't a good place to work on frustration tolerance. (we all of us delicately skirted around the issue of cognitive abilities. Good grief, why would those matter?).

They also added that they had observed that while he integrated himself seamlessly with the K kids during pull-out and was very much a respected part of the group, he liked to play with the boys about a year younger than him, and had nothing whatsoever to do with the boys that would actually be his grade level (ie those less than a year younger than him, as he's just past the cutoff), which they felt wouldn't bode well for his social integration if he were grouped with them, staying for another year in that pre-school classroom. I do feel that this somewhat reflects his asynchronous development with the advanced cognitive abilities and the somewhat delayed socio-emotional development. Or really play abilities - he can seem very mature with adults, if the low frustration tolerance and low impulse control don't get in his way. He does talk alot about playing with construction toys with the older K boys now (when I asked whether the younger boys he does not like playing with ever join in, he scoffed "not they! They only ever make baby stuff! Like they put a few wheels on a plate and pretend it's a car. We build rockets!" Right.

They would not comment on the elementary schools or their principals, insisting they hadn't a clue and never heard back from parents. Right. I suppose they have their reasons keeping their mouths shut. I mentioned the principals' heartfelt stand against early entry (one of the preschool teachers had been there after all) and teh other admitted that yes, that incident would make her wary, too. Though it had been their experience that as long as it fit in with classroom numbers, the principal would do whatever parents asked, red-shirt or enter, child ready or no, and if it it didn't, the parent wouldn't stand a chance.

And my PT, who is a bit of gossip central in our village, and has put two children through the school, exploded on being asked: "don't ask me!I can't be objecitve! I hate the woman!" On being gently prodded: "She's arrogant, condescending, that down-to-earth approachability is a total act, she will tell you anything to your face she thinks you wants to hear but never follow through, has scared off any teacher who was ever worth anything, has put one in the loony bin, that male one is the last one worth his salt and i know he is waiting for a particular opportunity to open up at another school, has ruined my kids and has ruined standards for everyone else! No wonder everyone is trying to put their child in the Catholic school" Right. Waiting to hear from that school ourselves. DH has admitted he is not comfortable with Montessori because he did not like the way they (and everyone else there) appeared to consider themselves a kind of special ed option at the open house he went to. I am not ready to write it off yet but of course DH has to be on board.

Oh, and did I say I wish he were reading, because that is a much easiere milestone to present to a principal than math abilities? He has picked it up over Christmas. Be careful what you wish for, I have had to tell myself, because he is now beginning to put words together in newspaper headlines and wanting to know about people dying on cruise ships, and sex offenders wearing ankle locks...