Anyone know why DS would do this?

[Thing1Thing2]

Trying to get my 13 week old back on the breast. He will take the breast and then get one sip and then turn away in what looks like disgust. Then he will cry and pull away if I try to offer him the breast again.

Is there a reason? Does my milk taste terrible? Anything I can do?

[Megan73]

If he's been fed by bottle I would guess he may be annoyed that the flow at the breast is slower than a bottle.

[Thing1Thing2]

Thanks for the reply Megan. My computer was out for the past day or so.

I considered your idea too, but what confused me is that he doesn't even give it a chance. It's like as soon as the milk hits his mouth he's off the breast and crying. Do you think that he could recognize the type of feeding and realize the flow is going to be slow?

I just have to get him on the breast here soon or I'm going to be out of milk. I think I'm going to try the Lactaid when we get paid next week...

[Megan73]

So he pulls off AFTER he's got a letdown?
I assumed he pulled off when he didn't immediately get flow - as he would from a bottle. Have you been using newborn (ie slow flow bottles)?
It could be that he's annoyed that the flow from the breast is less than from the bottle.
And absolutely he knows the difference - babies are smart!
Let me know if you need any help with the LA - it's an awesome product, I just wish it wasn't so pricey so more mamas could take advantage of it.
Hang in there, mama.

[Asiago]

It could be the difference of flow, versus using a bottle, as Megan73 wrote.

Also, it could be pain. Either in the mouth or an ear infection, even pain from a vaccination.

Have you used any nipple creams or body lotions? Do you use deoderant (?) sometimes it migrates to the breast area, especially the aerosols and sprays. 

Or if you are hand expressing (if my memory serves) perhaps something that was on your fingers?

It does sound as though he is eager to breastfeed though, so that is a GOOD sign, but now just to decifer what is causing the reaction once he does. Don't worry, you will figure it out.

You are doing a great job by the way.

[Thing1Thing2]

Originally Posted by Megan73 

So he pulls off AFTER he's got a letdown?
I assumed he pulled off when he didn't immediately get flow - as he would from a bottle. Have you been using newborn (ie slow flow bottles)?
It could be that he's annoyed that the flow from the breast is less than from the bottle.
And absolutely he knows the difference - babies are smart!
Let me know if you need any help with the LA - it's an awesome product, I just wish it wasn't so pricey so more mamas could take advantage of it.
Hang in there, mama.

Yes, pulls off and makes disgusted face *after* the letdown, which (for me) comes as soon as he takes his first one or two sucks. He actually latched on again today - its been maybe a week since he would even turn toward the breast. He latched for about 3 sucks and got a little milk and then pulled away and wouldn't go back on :(

Asiago, it does seem like something is bothering him, but I don't use lotions, etc. because I have allergies. Someone did do my laundry for me bc the washer has been broken. I never use fabric softener, bc it gives me a crazy rash, but I do smell a little on the towels my friend washed for me. Some may have come off in the dryer, evem though she doesn't use it in my clothes.

I use the Toms all natural deoderant, but there are times I've come fresh from the shower and he still had a problem.

Thanks for all your encouragment, Ladies. Hope I can get to the bottom of this soon.

Originally Posted by Asiago 

It could be the difference of flow, versus using a bottle, as Megan73 wrote.

Also, it could be pain. Either in the mouth or an ear infection, even pain from a vaccination.

Have you used any nipple creams or body lotions? Do you use deoderant (?) sometimes it migrates to the breast area, especially the aerosols and sprays. 

Or if you are hand expressing (if my memory serves) perhaps something that was on your fingers?

It does sound as though he is eager to breastfeed though, so that is a GOOD sign, but now just to decifer what is causing the reaction once he does. Don't worry, you will figure it out.

You are doing a great job by the way.

[Megan73]

All I can guess is that it's that breastfeeding is different from the bottle.
But it's great news that he's taking the breast and trying to nurse. I'd just keep offering in a low pressure way when he's calm and not starving.
Have you considered eliminating artificial nipples and cup, syringe or finger feeding instead? I hope the at-the-breast supplementer will help him make the transition. I don't love the Medela SNS but they're pretty common and there might be a chance you could borrow one from someone at your LLL group if you have one until you get the LA.
Hang in there, mama.

[Thing1Thing2]

My Lact-aid just came in. I'm very nervous about using it.

I read the instruction manual and it seems like alot. There are alot of pieces and it's all very confusing. I'm wondering if I have the skill to take this on, it's kind of overwhelming.

First off, he doesn't latch for too long so I'm afraid I will have the whole thing set up and he won't even go for it. Then, I'm wondering if I will be able to hold him in the right position to get him latched the way that the manual instructs. He won't even face my breast anymore. I guess he remembers all the times I've tried to get him to latch.

Also afraid of failing. This is my last thread of hope. If this fails, I will be devestated.

Any tips on how to make it easier? I'm sure it gets better with many attempts...

[Megan73]

Oh honey, hang in there. It does take practice but you can do it and it will be second nature in no time. There are a whole bunch of videos on YouTube on loading and using the Lact-Aid. It helped my to have my SIL demonstrate it for me.
I honestly never even read the manual about how to latch with it. What I did was hold the tube onto the top of my nipple with my thumb and with my hand in a "C" shape around the breast. The tube should protrude a tiny bit past the nipple. You can use tape or a band-aid (thread the tube through the non-sticky part) to hold the tube to your breast but I never taped after the first time I used it.
I would suggest trying when your babe isn't starving - maybe midway through a feed? - so he'll have a bit more patience with latching and unlatching.
I'll keep coming back if you need any help

[Thing1Thing2]

Thanks Megan! I didn't know about the videos on youtube. I watched several (actually like a hundred )  and I'm going to try after all the business of the holiday. I will keep you posted!

[Thing1Thing2]

Ok - having a minor setback. I had no idea that my adrenal fatigue medication has lactose in it (I have milk allergies and so does DS1). Gave DS some breastmilk in a bottle and he freaked - I had to old him up while he slept for 2 nights.  

I just realized now what the problem was. So I think it takes 2 weeks to get the milk out of my system. Have to wait 2 weeks now before I can try to use the lact-aid.

This is going on for way longer than I can take.   :(

[Thing1Thing2]

Update: Yay! my 2 week wait is almost over. I've been pumping like crazy, went out and got the playtex double electric pump. Huge hit to the wallet and I'm not getting much breastmilk - just drops here and there - maybe about half an ounce each day total.

Its so hard to find time to pump with a baby who is fussy almost all day. Yesterday I pumped every 2 hours - still not getting much. Today I pumped every 2 hours as well.My nipples hurt!

I'm drinking TM mothers milk tea with fenugreek. Does anyone know if my supply will eventually come back? Or how long I would have to pump to get at least some of it back?

DH looked at me with such pity when I told him I had to pump again. He said he thinks my supply (which used to be quite abundant - oversupply actually) will never come back :(

pumping at keyboard so forgive me for grammatical errors

[Mama505]

Fenugreek is good, as is milk thistle.  There are many natural tinctures out there as well.

[Megan73]

Originally Posted by Thing1Thing2 

Update: Yay! my 2 week wait is almost over. I've been pumping like crazy, went out and got the playtex double electric pump. Huge hit to the wallet and I'm not getting much breastmilk - just drops here and there - maybe about half an ounce each day total.

Its so hard to find time to pump with a baby who is fussy almost all day. Yesterday I pumped every 2 hours - still not getting much. Today I pumped every 2 hours as well.My nipples hurt!

I'm drinking TM mothers milk tea with fenugreek. Does anyone know if my supply will eventually come back? Or how long I would have to pump to get at least some of it back?

DH looked at me with such pity when I told him I had to pump again. He said he thinks my supply (which used to be quite abundant - oversupply actually) will never come back

pumping at keyboard so forgive me for grammatical errors

Do you have correctly fitted flanges for your pump? Typically the 24 mm are standard and many women find the 27 mm more comfortable. Have you considered trying domperidone? It can be really hard to re-estabish supply after about eight weeks but pumping and domperidone have allowed many women to relactate.
Have you tried the LA? What are you using to feed the baby? EBM from your freezer stash or formula? I can't imagine the lactose in your meds would be a problem for your LO - breast milk is full of lactose naturally, although babies sometimes can have an allergy to milk proteins (not milk sugar) in mom's milk.

[Thing1Thing2]

Hi Megan - I think the flanges are fitted well.  With the Medela hand pump, my nipples were hitting the back of the pump. I switched to the next size up and that seemed to work. With the new electric pump, Im using the standard because it includes a silicone breast massager which prevents my nipple from hitting the back.

It seems I'm getting a tiny bit more with the hand pump - so I'm not completely sure what the problem is.

I haven't tried the LA yet, because I can't get him to latch at all anymore :( Hes crying all the time and I'm having a hard time figuring out what to do to help him...Now the naturopath has him on the goat milk WAP formula. I'm so frustrated and confused. I have an appointment on the 20th with a LC. And now he is on the Zantac although I don't think it's helping much.

I have milk allergies, as does my first son - who reacted pretty badly to any form of milk in my breastmilk. After all I've been through to help this baby not be in pain - he is still crying all the time. I don't even know if he will be able to tolerate the breastmilk. But I figure we can try it out and work from there. I just don't want to lose my supply.

[Megan73]

Hang in there, mama. I hope the LC can help.
The only thing I can think of is maybe using the LA underneath a nipple shield. Maybe that would make the nipple more like a bottle and he could latch on and get milk from the LA? I'm not sure about the WAP formula and the tube, though...
My first son had garden variety colic and was treated for reflux - it made no difference. I've seen research showing that probiotics (lactobacillus reuteri) can help babes with colic. Might be worth a try.

[Thing1Thing2]

Thanks Megan - you are so helpful. Talking with DH today and we are beginning to realize that this is something we are going to have to wait out.

Originally, I didn't want to take the medicine route, but we have tried a naturopath, chiropractic, cranio- sacral, hazelwood necklace, changing my diet, formula and now goats milk, all the reflux holding positions, sleeping at an angle and yes - probiotics... the list goes on.. So medicine is our only available option right now...

I'm hoping the LC can help as well, but nervous because it doesn't seem like she really wants to help. She's the only one my health insurance will cover, so I'm kind of stuck with her. Last time I saw her was about 2 weeks after the birth. When she found out it was a home delivery, she freaked out and basically told me she couldn't help me until he sees a real doctor and not just my midwife.

The idea about using the Lact Aid and nipple shield together sounds great. Didn't think of that one! Going to try it!

I saw your siggy. So sorry about the loss of your little one. It must be tough for you, even though it was almost 5 years ago. Thinking of you...

[Thing1Thing2]

Oh my, I've been trying to get him on the Lact-aid since yesterday. He will have none of it.

Took him to ped today. He now has thrush 

I don't think I should try latching him on anymore... until this bout is over... I can't believe all I am going through

Do you think I can latch him onto the breast shield? Or would that put me at risk?

[Megan73]

You have just been through the ringer. I'm so sorry. I wish your had a more supportive LC.
How are you feeling about all of this? I don't know what else is happening in your life but facing these kind of challenges with a newborn can be all-consuming and so tough emotionally.
I would try the shield and LA when he's sleepy and/or after a bottle feed so he'll be more relaxed and patient. Some moms have had good luck trying to latch in the bath.
I don't have any experience with thrush so I can't help you there. I bet there's some good info on kellymom.com.
If you do decide to start dom the usual starting dose now is 90 mg a day but some women are taking up to 160 mg a day. There's a FAQ about it in Breastfeeding Challenges and some great info on Dr. Jack Newman's breastfeeding site.
Thank you for your sympathies on the loss of my daughter. I can't believe it's been five years. The grief has softened but we will always feel that she is missing from our family.

[Thing1Thing2]

Ahhh! I thought I had answered your last post! So sorry, my head is swimming with all that has been going on.

Well I think the thrush is gone. I treated it naturally. Tons of probiotics and no sugar. I know from experience that the meds only help until I come off of them. Possible candida issues here... along with a myriad of allergy and digestive issues :(

Thanks for asking about my feelings. I'm overwhelmed at the prospect that I might not be able to give my baby what is best for him (breastmilk). Im also having a hard time feeling my identity as a mother. If I can't breastfeed, then what am I? Am I even his mom? Or someone who just bore and birthed him. I feel the disassociation of not being able to bond with him. Feel like I'm missing out on all those warm fuzzy feelings of being a mom of a newborn.

Do you think it's fairly normal for mothers to bond more to thier first child than to the second?

Well just to update - DS2 is now 5 months old and I'm still pumping 3 to 5 times every day. Just hoping that something will change and he will latch on. He has been quite close to latching in the past few days. He started becoming curious in the bath and I noticed some instinctual rooting. And yesterday he actually took a nibble. About half a suckle after his nap with me. So I'm guessing that slowly we are moving closer. 

And this is great - the LC really did help me quite a bit. She gave me a whole bunch of info and support and lots of things to work towards - such as pumping 8 times a day. She also felt inside his mouth and said he has a very sensitive gag reflex and this could be the reason for his problems. Not sure about that bc he latched on great 5 minutes after he was born.

Glad I checked this thread again. You have given some great advice that I had forgotten about. Thanks again!