What age were you (the parent) potty trained?? - Page 2

[crunchy_mommy]

Originally Posted by kayabrink 

My feeling is that earlier potty training relies on adults being consistently aware of the child's needs in a way that is no longer feasable for all families nowadays. To pt a young child ( and I have done it twice and seen it done many times over with NO shaming or punishment) you need to anticipate the baby/toddler's potty needs for a few months, until they get the idea. even then, they need consistencey and absolute dedication to pee. What I mean by that is, no matter what you are doing and where you are, if they ask to pee you must immediately respond. That is more difficult in this day in age with so many things vying for our attention. 

I think this is so true. My friend with a young 2yo PT'ed around 20mos I think??? But she has to constantly bring her DD to the potty.... and she has to RUN... if she doesn't run fast enough, there are accidents. If she doesn't stay in tune with her DD 100% of the time, there are accidents. She needs to bring 10 changes of clothes wherever she goes. It seems to take a HUGE commitment on her part & I don't think most parents nowadays have the time/energy/focus/ability to do that.

PT'ing my 2.5yo seems like it was much easier than that (and I tried earlier with him, there was definitely some kind of physical change that made it easier right around 2.5). There is no running to the potty... when he needs to go, we have a couple of minutes to find a bathroom, or pull off the road to a store with a restroom, or let him finish what he's doing. He only has to go once every couple of hours, not several times an hour like he used to. If I'm not paying close attention, he'll still come up & tell me that he needs to go. He has some emotional issues/delays and doesn't always WANT to use the potty, but physiologically he's got it down. I noticed similar physical control with some of his friends around his age. So I do think many parents will have an easier time waiting 'til age 2-3 (though I know there are "windows of opportunity" for some kids and for them, waiting that long may make it harder) and I'm sure some kids do reach physical readiness earlier than 2....

[carmel23]

Originally Posted by serenbat 

I think you extremely misguided, not just my opinion but from a historical, cultural and practical point of view-I find this very sad to see. 

I wish for once I could see someone post rational and natural reason for delaying (keeping diapered) when it is a normal human bodily function and how by doing so (for what is now a prolonged use) if beneficial.

Hi,

I was trying to make it clear that I wasn't speaking about cultures that have a long standing practices  of not really using diapers in the first place, i.e. largely non-western cultures. Sorry, I didn't have a lot of time to write that I don't think cultures that don't use diapers (or people who EC and have always done so throughout history) in the first place really have a point where the child is in diapers to be out of diapers. If that makes sense?

The manner in which the questions in the OP uses the phrase potty trained--which to me is not really something I have ever done with any of my kids... And it does imply reward/punishment to me, and so I was just riffing on that. 

I was in no way advocating a delay in potty learning, but rather commenting on a change in discipline that I have observed from when my parents and grandparents parented and how that might have impacted how quickly or slowing a child was out of diapers. For what its worth none of my 4 kids have been in diapers past 26 months... so I am not advocating prolonged use of diapers.

The OP wants to know why kids are in diapers longer, and I was simply positing that perhaps it has something to do with changing attitudes towards child behavior and parental discipline.  That is all. 

Sorry to be so unenlightened for you.....
 

[serenbat]

I was trying to make it clear that I wasn't speaking about cultures that have a long standing practices  of not really using diapers in the first place, i.e. largely non-western cultures. 

So what "group" were you referring to?

seems it's simply not a US parent that is marketed to for extending diapering

Check this out:
http://web.maths.unsw.edu.au/~jim/annachristierpt10.pdf
It is from Australia, but I think it is pretty relevant.

extended diapering and marketing seem to go hand in hand-

I fail to see how punishment gets linked here with any factual bases-this is a new phenomena here in the US-very new. And I still fail to see your point and the impression that punishment is the cause.

[pranava]

There's also not always a connection between taking a kid out of diapers and having them be potty trained.  I took my kid out of diapers 10 months ago and he still pees on the floor many times a week.

[mamazee]

My mom believed in potty training by the 2nd birthday, but her methods were harsh and, according to her, pretty common at that time (although she might have been rationalizing.) She said she's lock us in the bathroom for hours at a time if need be and spank us if we had an accident, and with me she finally put my underwear in the bathroom and had me change myself and clean up after myself when I had an accident, and then she's spank me and put me in my room. But even then I remember having accidents in Kindergarten. I think it would be interesting to compare, but if I were doing it I'd want to compare gentle PL to gentle PL, not just ages with not knowledge of how it was done. Because I don't care how long it takes my kids to potty train, I'd change diapers for a long time before I'd spank them or lock them up over it. On the other hand, I think disposable diapers and marketing contribute to later potty learning as well. And I think children of all ages are treated as younger than they used to be, like 2-year-olds are treated as young to expect potty training, but even teenagers are treated as unable to handle things teenagers used to handle, 10-year-olds are treated as unable to handle things they used to be able to handle. It's more even than just potty training that's involved. It's a very multi-faceted thing and I can see why you're interested in researching it.

One other thing is I've noticed sometimes parents say their kids are potty trained when they're having very frequent accidents, so the definition of "potty trained" is tricky too. I don't consider a child potty trained until they aren't having accidents anymore and are able to figure out on their own when they need to use the potty without reminders and pretty well handle it all on their own, maybe just asking for help wiping, but I don't think that's everyone's definition.

[carmel23]

Originally Posted by serenbat 

So what "group" were you referring to?

seems it's simply not a US parent that is marketed to for extending diapering

extended diapering and marketing seem to go hand in hand-

I fail to see how punishment gets linked here with any factual bases-this is a new phenomena here in the US-very new. And I still fail to see your point and the impression that punishment is the cause.

Western/US-- see notes below.

Originally Posted by pranava 

There's also not always a connection between taking a kid out of diapers and having them be potty trained.  I took my kid out of diapers 10 months ago and he still pees on the floor many times a week.

Yes. Sounds like my toddler. I think he enjoys peeing on things that are not the potty! 

Originally Posted by mamazee 

My mom believed in potty training by the 2nd birthday, but her methods were harsh and, according to her, pretty common at that time (although she might have been rationalizing.) She said she's lock us in the bathroom for hours at a time if need be and spank us if we had an accident, and with me she finally put my underwear in the bathroom and had me change myself and clean up after myself when I had an accident, and then she's spank me and put me in my room. But even then I remember having accidents in Kindergarten. I think it would be interesting to compare, but if I were doing it I'd want to compare gentle PL to gentle PL, not just ages with not knowledge of how it was done. Because I don't care how long it takes my kids to potty train, I'd change diapers for a long time before I'd spank them or lock them up over it. On the other hand, I think disposable diapers and marketing contribute to later potty learning as well. And I think children of all ages are treated as younger than they used to be, like 2-year-olds are treated as young to expect potty training, but even teenagers are treated as unable to handle things teenagers used to handle, 10-year-olds are treated as unable to handle things they used to be able to handle. It's more even than just potty training that's involved. It's a very multi-faceted thing and I can see why you're interested in researching it.

One other thing is I've noticed sometimes parents say their kids are potty trained when they're having very frequent accidents, so the definition of "potty trained" is tricky too. I don't consider a child potty trained until they aren't having accidents anymore and are able to figure out on their own when they need to use the potty without reminders and pretty well handle it all on their own, maybe just asking for help wiping, but I don't think that's everyone's definition.

Thank you for posting this.  This is exactly what I was getting at.  I know you are not the only one who went through this.  Sure, diaper companies market diapers and want people to buy as many of them as possible.  But that doesn't mean parents just do it.  Look at formula/nursing usage.  Formula is heavily marketed to new parents--some hospitals even pass out "free samples." But I only know one parent that uses formula, and think that in many areas, most mothers breastfeed.

I don't remember my parents potty training me, but I know that my brother was heavily shamed for not being completely out of diapers by 26 months.  My parents still talk about it now--because he would go in the closet, go in his training pants, change his pants-- and they shamed him for this... He did this until he was almost 3 years-old.  I know he was punished and shamed. 

Sure, some parents still shame and punish but I don't think people do it as much now for potty training.  While the diaper manufacturers take advantage of the pediatricians and psychologists advising parents to "wait until the child is ready," and not "pressure the child" there are other reasons for peds and psychs making these statements--because they have probably witnessed *a lot* of children being mistreated over potty training to make statements like this. Of course marketers take advantage of these statements, but that doesn't mean they have invented them.... they're a reaction to something widespread in the culture.

[serenbat]

She said she's lock us in the bathroom for hours at a time if need be and spank us if we had an accident, and with me she finally put my underwear in the bathroom and had me change myself and clean up after myself when I had an accident, and then she's spank me and put me in my room. 

Thank you for posting this.  This is exactly what I was getting at. 

so this it thought to be the norm of what happened?  

[carmel23]

Originally Posted by serenbat 

so this it thought to be the norm of what happened?  

This is probably an extreme--but the more subtle example of shaming that I posted shows a range, both of which I would consider abusive.  And yes, I think it probably was more prevalent and socially acceptable then.  Sad, but true. I think a lot of parents now *do not* want to do that to their child and if they are in diapers for a little longer, then so be it. 

*Of course* there are more gentle ways of early potty learning the emphasize parental child connection, but even that is considered radical in the United States today. 
 

[mamazee]

I don't think that's the norm - my parents were definitely harsher than most in most ways and I'd think also in potty training. But I think most parents of the 70s and 80s probably used something like the Potty Training in a Day method, which involves, when your child wets him/herself, making him/her put her wet clothes back on and then walk back and forth between the spot where he/she wet and the potty 10 times, telling him/her each time about how disappointed and upset everyone will be that he/she had an accident. "Grandma will be so disappointed that you wet your pants." That kind of thing. I won't do anything that harsh because it sounds shaming and humiliating to me, and I think that was among the more gentle methods of the good ole' days, because there was no spanking, and I think potty training did often involve spanking, at least in the 70s when I was little. Maybe not the late 70s and 80s because spanking was going out of favor a bit more by then.

[Imakcerka]

I was potty trained by 15 mos.  My dad put me on the potty ( a horse seat cover with handles)  all day every day because he hated changing diapers.  My mom used clothe and he refused to deal with it.  I was stuck at home with him during the winters when he was layed off.  I'm not sure how it all worked I would think that would make me bulk at using the toilet at a young age.  Then again he was a spanker.  

[lifeguard]

I was out of dipes by 2. Ds was out of dipes at 22 months. Honestly, most of my friend's kids are much closer to 3 or even older but most of them are more mess-adverse than we are & (& this is not a judgement) they are lazier about the whole thing - it is much easier to keep a child in diapers until they are old enough to transition completely to pottying on their own, especially when you are using disposables.

[JudiAU]

Potty trained before/at 2, just like almost everyone of my generation. And my kids too. 

I am a total convert to more traditional potty learning. Super easy with cloth diapers, starting at around 18m. I like Diaper Free Before 3.I find delaying potty learning to be really gross and wasteful actually and think early potty learning is totally empowering for small people. Which isn't to say that some children won't train later but that many parents don't give the tools they need to train earlier. 

Potty training can be accomplished in a lot of ways but it is a myth that traditional (I refuse to refer to it as "young") potty learning need be harsh. It certainly wasn't in our family or in mine. It does require attention.

[mamazee]

I want to be clear that I don't think it has to be harsh. Not at all. I just think that in the 70s and earlier, it often was, and if we look at statistical data, we should view it with that understanding. My guess is that most people are very gentle with potty training now.

[Imakcerka]

I see no problem with early training.  I do think the relaxed attitude has helped a lot of moms with kids who were late no matter what was tried.  DD1 was completely out of pull ups before 1st grade, DD2 was good by age 2.  We have a long list of late learners in my family starting with my own mother her wet her bed until she was 11.  Without her telling me it was okay I'm sure I would have felt like a failure.  My brother was much older too, I think 7.  Everyone around me told me something was wrong with DD1 and I wasn't consistent enough.  I should punish her for wetting her pants awake and asleep.  That didn't feel right to me.  However I did meet some other moms who really helped me through the problems with DD1 and I began to relax and DH took on the role of potty training.  He had her ready to go at 6.  

A late learner does not mean a parent is lazy.  I hate that idea.  An early learned child does not mean a parent was the best at it either.  My dad spanked for peeing in my diaper when I was 1 until I no longer did it.  I also sat on the potty all day long.  Though he still boast about how he got me trained before 2 and my mom was unable to get my brother trained until much later.  Bravo dumb ass!

[*Aimee*]

My moms boyfriend said his grandma strapped him to a potty chair with leather straps and switched him when he was fussy or struggled. 3 days, but hey he was potty trained by 15 months, thank goodness she wasn't lazy about it

My mil said she left her kids with their grandma and when she came back they were both potty trained. It also involved being spanked for getting off the potty or having accidents, I by no means think this was a rare case. You can even google pictures of potty seats with straps on them. So I think it's really silly to pretend it wasn't common.


It really bothers me that it's insinuated parents with late potty trainers are lazy. Who are you to say that, really? But I guess it's just common mdc shaming and judgement, I'd forgotten how this place was. My son will be 4 in April and has never peed in a potty. He is not delayed in anyway. He just doesn't get it. And he is traumatized by being naked or having pee on him. Shall I strap him to a potty chair?

[lifeguard]

I want to clarify that I did NOT mean by any stretch of the imagination that late trainers have lazy parents but IME with MY friends for many of them this is the case - they simply do not want to put effort into potty training. This is obviously not the case for everyone.

[Imakcerka]

Who cares though?  Not effecting your budget and potty training happens when it happens.  I think it's best that everyone is on board to include the little person who has to now change his/her ways.  It can be difficult on both ends.  Not potty training til their older isn't lazy, they may just be going on their kids ques.  Why is that so bad?  How is it effecting you?
 

Originally Posted by lifeguard 

I want to clarify that I did NOT mean by any stretch of the imagination that late trainers have lazy parents but IME with MY friends for many of them this is the case - they simply do not want to put effort into potty training. This is obviously not the case for everyone.

[serenbat]

Who cares though?  Not effecting your budget

well there is an impact, society does get effect by this

they are finding more UTI in those who train later (and the cost for those without insurance in the US is payed for by others- higher costs effect all- my budget)

the use of disposables effect filling up landfills

the use of cloth is high water and electric consumption

in my area you pay more to daycare if your child is not trained

so yes, some people do care because this effects others

[mamazee]

Well, as far as that goes, having a kid at all affects other people, but it isn't my business if someone decides to have a kid in the first place. I think families can potty train in whatever way and at whatever timeframe works for them.

[nextcommercial]

I was born in the 60s.  Up until the early 90s, most kids were potty trained by age two.  It was unusual to be in diapers at age 3.  I've potty trained hundreds of kids, and it was easier a long time ago than it is now.

I blame the thinner diapers, parents who are busier,  and most of all Pullups.  Parents and providers will use pullups for months before realizing, it's just a diaper.  

There's a magic window at about age two.  If we miss that window, we miss the perfect opportunity to potty train.  Kids are so used to doing it a certain way, that trying to get them out of diapers is much harder after a while, because that's all they know.  

A child can typically be potty trained in less than three days.  (it can be done in one day) If a child isn't potty trained in under four days, we stop and try again later.  Some people think it can take months to potty train.  (it can if you are doing EC)  But, if it's taking that long, it's just not the right time.