Support for encountering people who have money don't remember what it's like NOT to have money - Page 2

[seawitch]

And I also think that most people WILL plan ahead when possible and say it's not in the budget. I don't think that's what the OP was talking about. It's where a situation arises unexpectedly where you can no longer really say no.

Like when the boss said, "it's OK, treat me next time" AFTER she had already clearly told the boss that she couldn't afford to go out. What is she supposed to say to her boss, "uh, sorry, no can do, but thanks for lunch anyway!"? I wonder how long she'd have had a job afterwards.

[bearski5]

In this case it's time to start earning more money..... I have been there trust me...took us years...but we got there....

 

Originally Posted by seawitch 

I didn't see anyone expressing an opinin that people with money are bad people.
But.... what exactly do you mean that people should live below their means? What about the people who literally spend every last dollar they make on their bills and still don't have enough to pay all the bills? How exactly are they supposed to live below their means?

[sosurreal09]

We are in a tough spot financially...we aren't making ends meet and we don't have a dollar to spend. DH is at work or school from 7am-10pm and I can't work due to his schedule, having no family, and not being able to afford daycare eve if I worked 40hrs a week. It sucks major.

The point is I am just honest about our situation. I can't accept invites places even just based on extra gas money. Everyone thinks I'm just blowing them off and they are all pissed...well I'm not it's all very true. When I do go visit family the gas goes on a credit card and we already have $10000 in debt just keeps adding up. DH only made $24000 this year gross...

So it is what it is. We have one car, no cell phones, no cable, and no extras. Thankfully he is graduating in May and will hopefully get a better job ASAP. We sacrifice b/c we have too and that includes trips or dinners people are offering to pay for. It's even really hard to invite anyone over b/c of the extra food no one in my family gets it for sure but nothing I can do about that.

Just adding that yes I am pregnant and no one better flame me for it b/c you don't know the circumstances around it and I don't care what your opinion is.

[seawitch]

Bearski -

Right... but that's really neither here nor there when the OP or other posters are stuck in awkward social situations with people who, presumably, are nice and well-meaning individuals, loved ones, family, friends, etc., but are still not "getting" what their financial struggles are.

I think a better question would be how much are they supposed to reveal to their friends/family/employers/co-workers/whoever about how, "no, really, REALLY it's not in the budget" without coming across as whiners or look like they're asking for a handout. Or are they supposed to just cut off all social ties with everyone until their financial situation improves?

(And I'll just say very quietly that not everyone can just *snap* make some more money. There are all sorts of reasons people are stuck in lower financial brackets. It's not necessarily a matter of "go back to school and get more money!!" or anything. Individual family situations are, well, unique. I think it's a bit insensitive to just say to go make money. Many people, especially those with low incomes, would love to do so.)
Edited by seawitch - 12/28/11 at 1:16pm

[seawitch]

"Just adding that yes I am pregnant and no one better flame me for it b/c you don't know the circumstances around it and I don't care what your opinion is."

And to wander off on a tangent, cos that's what I love to do - I don't get why people have judgements about those things. For all you know they were on two different types of birth control which both failed. Or maybe they really were in the heat of the moment and "irresponsible". Or maybe it's because of their religious beliefs. Or maybe they were sexually assaulted but just don't want to share the details outside the family unit. Or whatever. Once you're pregnant, you're pregnant. That's really the end of the conversation and there's zero use making judgments about whether a woman "should" be preggers or not. What's done is done, so it's pointless to lecture (or give a judgmental look) or anything, IMO. /TANGENT

[Imakcerka]

Oh geez this got interesting all while I was cleaning out my garage.

I think we're talking about people being in uncomfortable positions they can't afford.  First off, it can be embarrassing.  My friends wanted me to go to a spa with them last year right before Christmas.  Already my budget was tight.  I was making half of what I had made before but with the same bills.  Though I wasn't poor by any means I couldn't pay for the spa deal they wanted to do.  I had to tell them no, I can't afford it.  Instead of just letting it be they asked why.  Then went on to tell me my husband should work then if I can't even afford to go to a spa.  First... a spa is not necessary for me.  Having my husband home with the kids while I work crazy hours is.  By him staying home it alleviated 1300 a month in daycare, almost 300 a month in gas.  That doesn't include lunches or anything else that might pop up.  So for him not working we didn't have to pay out 1600 a month for him to do so.  It wasn't easy but I'm currently in the position that I can go out to do all those things.  With a different mind set though, just because I can doesn't mean others can.  And I won't put others in that position.  Where I work most people make anywhere from 45,000 to 125,000.  In San Antonio 45,000 can go along way for a family of four without big bills.  However I know lots of my friends are right there and I know they don't have extra.  I'm not going to put them in a position to feel overwhelmed by me asking them to go out and do things with me. 

I do know that some people who were there but are now rolling in the dough like to flaunt it.  I work with two like that.  They always talk about all they have bought and all that they do.  That's fine enjoy your money, but remember there are others around you that are struggling to get everything together.   They even seem like they enjoy that they can afford it while others can't.  Sounds odd but I guess you'd have to hear them. 

Telling someone to make more money is rude.  While I worked hard to be where I'm at, making more money meant I had to spend more money on certifications and study material.  I had to budget in test that cost me 500 a pop and lots of people failed them.  I took my GCIA and if you look on line in the entire world wide community there are less than 5000 of us.  However there are so many people that have taken it it's unreal.  A friend of mine had to take it 3 times... add that up... and she never passed it.  I passed it first go out of luck in my opinion.  I have to take the CISSP soon that's another 500 a test and in my office of 25 everyone has failed it atleast twice... add that up... what the FUQ!!!  I'm scared to take it but I think I can pass it first go.  I've been studying 6 months and that will give me another pay raise.  Atleast 10 grand.  Getting there takes time and money.  All in all I've spent 6,000 in tests, study material and classes.  That's a lot of money.  I did get a 20,000 pay increase but it took me almost 3 years.  So for 3 years I struggled and I honestly think that's where a lot of people are at.  Getting their stuff together and trying, the road is hard and just saying make more money... that's mean. 

[sosurreal09]

^ That's where we are at. It is humiliating having to shout from the rooftops we can't afford anything...I hate having to do it.

I *WISH* when we tell family hello we only made $24,000 this year they would use common sense that we are poor and to stop asking us for everything!

MIL was pissed we didn't get any adults Christmas presents! Seriously?! It was hard enough scraping together the money for our nieces and nephew!

[seawitch]

That.

Or else people are stuck in a low income bracket because they literally don't have other options.

I hate to get redundant and share my situation, but what the heck, I know we're not the only ones in our situation. My husband has health issues and cannot work. I get a small stipend for taking care of him, which means I also cannot work. We can go weeks or months where he can't be left alone, or else weeks where he's hospitalized. I have to be with him 24 hours a day except for a few hours here and there where I judge he's doing well enough for me to leave him long enough to run an errand or two. And sometimes that means if I have to go grocery shopping for a week and he's not doing well enough that I can leave him for the hour it would take to run to the store, then we get creative with what's in the pantry. Even if I could get a home health care aide for him (which he would qualify for but doesn't want) I couldn't make enough to pay for the aide AND get my kids into daycare and still come out ahead, and we can't get daycare aide unless both parents are working (disability does not count even with a doctor's note). I don't even have the ability to work from home - been there, done that, wasn't able to do it because when his health issues escalated and we were constantly in the hospital, I failed my job deadlines. So we're on a fixed income. It recently increased a lot due to getting different sorts of disability benefits, but in the end what matters is that we simply can NOT make any money because a) he can't work and b) I can't either because of my responsibilities at home. It just, doesn't, work.

Shrug.

[laohaire]

Originally Posted by bearski5 

In this case it's time to start earning more money..... I have been there trust me...took us years...but we got there....

 

Hmm. I am not obligated to earn more money so that you or anyone else can insist I go to a spa or go out all the time.

I am not obligated to earn more money so that someone else can deceive me into believing I am being treated for lunch but you actually have strings attached that you won't tell me about until too late.

I am not obligated to earn more money so that someone else can place me into a situation where you know that I will need to pay various fees (mandatory gratuities, port fees, whatever) when you have full knowledge of these fees and I, because I don't live that kind of life, had no idea existed.

There is a lesson to be learned though - don't get burned. Not because I or anyone else am obligated to anyone, but I guess the bottom line is that because some people abuse the situation, you must say no to all "gifts" and "offers," because it might bite you in the butt later.

[Milk8shake]

Over the last couple of years, we have drifted further and further from some of our close friends because of this issue. 

Some of them have money due to dumb luck, or dodgy dealings, and some of them have money due to working their asses off. 

None of them, however, have much understanding of our financial issues.

"we can afford it", "it's not in the budget", etc doesn't fly with them, and they see it more as us fobbing them off than anything else.  Even though they know that I have had health issues, and numerous months unable to work. 

I've been burned before by making arrangements with friends that would supposedly be "cheaper" so as not to blow them off completely.

For example, arrange to have take away for dinner instead of going out for a meal.

Choose something on the menu that is within a reasonable price range. 

Go to pick up the take away, and end up paying for our meals and meals for their family of four.

Friend says they will pay me back when we get home, then claim to have no cash, and they will just "shout" next time. 

Needless to say, we don't really have much to do with them any more. 

And can I just say, why does so much socialising have to revolve around food and drinks and eating out?

[MariaMadly]

Originally Posted by bearski5 

In this case it's time to start earning more money..... I have been there trust me...took us years...but we got there....

 

In this case it's time to implement ethical access to healthcare and a livable minimum wage.

[Adelio]

oh, that would drive me crazy!!!!  That's exactly what I"m talking about. 
 

Originally Posted by alittlesandy 
 I was livid by the end of the cruise, because we had to put everything on our emergency credit card and carry a balance because we couldn't afford to pay it off.

My boss and coworker also like to have lunch meetings. I am constantly begging them to eliminate this. Our budget is so tight I literally cannot afford a once-a-month lunch out for $15. The last time I begged off, saying I didn't have a penny to my name. My boss said she would pick up the tab, and at the end of meal, as we were walking out of the restaurant, I thanked her profusely for lunch, and she said, "You can treat next time!"

[Adelio]

Some of you have articulated what I'm trying to say, better than I did in the first post.

 I appreciate the discussion.

[zebu]

I find this thread very interesting, because I am on the other end of the spectrum.  I have more money than certain family members and it seems that it doesn't matter how much more, it's just means that more is more and that means they feel entitled to it.  It's only a few people, but it makes me feel very ungenerous toward them, because they expect me to cover meals out, hotels, etc.  In fact, for several weeks I've been thinking about starting a thread about it, to see if anyone with a higher income can relate, but I've been unsure of what kind of response it would get.

Anyway, I don't see that kind of entitlement in this thread.  I'm just saying that there's an issue on the other side, too.

OP, I think the way your aunt insisted on a more expensive place and expecting you to be able to afford it was pretty crappy.  I would pretty much assume that most people don't want to spend $50 for lunch on my whim, so if I just had to eat at a certain place I would make sure I could afford to treat.  I've also been on the other end and I've learned to speak up and say that it's just not in the budget right now.

[philomom]

Originally Posted by sosurreal09 

MIL was pissed we didn't get any adults Christmas presents! Seriously?! It was hard enough scraping together the money for our nieces and nephew!

Jeez, stuff like that is just one of the reasons I don't do xmas anymore.

[Imakcerka]

I think you should start the thread.  I own my home, or pay for it rather and have two decent cars.  This means to most of my family I'm rich... not rich.   Though when they come here to visit they expect me to pay for everything.  It doesn't matter that everything in my house is old.  And we eat at home a lot.  They expect me to spring for hotels, lend them my cars or pay for seaworld trips.  I hate seaworld!  I was almost thankful I went broke!  I mean my mom couldn't call me and say she wants to visit... here are the dates she would like, please get me an early flight then expect me to take her shopping and pay for it all.   And they all try to pretend that if I were to visit them they would do the same for me... so not true.  I've visited them and they've still asked me to buy lunch or get them groceries while they sit on their behinds watching cable tv on a huge flat screen... my TV's are atleast 10 yrs old.  I have two and none of them are flat screen...  GRRRRR!  But I think that's more of a family issue for me.
 

Originally Posted by nmbutts 

I find this thread very interesting, because I am on the other end of the spectrum.  I have more money than certain family members and it seems that it doesn't matter how much more, it's just means that more is more and that means they feel entitled to it.  It's only a few people, but it makes me feel very ungenerous toward them, because they expect me to cover meals out, hotels, etc.  In fact, for several weeks I've been thinking about starting a thread about it, to see if anyone with a higher income can relate, but I've been unsure of what kind of response it would get.

Anyway, I don't see that kind of entitlement in this thread.  I'm just saying that there's an issue on the other side, too.

OP, I think the way your aunt insisted on a more expensive place and expecting you to be able to afford it was pretty crappy.  I would pretty much assume that most people don't want to spend $50 for lunch on my whim, so if I just had to eat at a certain place I would make sure I could afford to treat.  I've also been on the other end and I've learned to speak up and say that it's just not in the budget right now.

[Paigekitten]

Originally Posted by nmbutts 

I find this thread very interesting, because I am on the other end of the spectrum.  I have more money than certain family members and it seems that it doesn't matter how much more, it's just means that more is more and that means they feel entitled to it.  It's only a few people, but it makes me feel very ungenerous toward them, because they expect me to cover meals out, hotels, etc.  In fact, for several weeks I've been thinking about starting a thread about it, to see if anyone with a higher income can relate, but I've been unsure of what kind of response it would get.

Anyway, I don't see that kind of entitlement in this thread.  I'm just saying that there's an issue on the other side, too.

OP, I think the way your aunt insisted on a more expensive place and expecting you to be able to afford it was pretty crappy.  I would pretty much assume that most people don't want to spend $50 for lunch on my whim, so if I just had to eat at a certain place I would make sure I could afford to treat.  I've also been on the other end and I've learned to speak up and say that it's just not in the budget right now.

We have family members who I get the impression think we expect them to cover us when we really don't. If we say "sorry it's not in the budget" they feel obligated to offer, we decline, they say "no really I want to treat/give this as a gift" so we accept the offer or gift and then they get really huffy if they see or hear of us spending money on ANYTHING regardless if it was something we HAD budgeted for or purchased before said offer.  

It would be nice to not have to completely hide your financial situation, or give a line by line explanation of your budget for fear of people (especially family) thinking you are dropping hints to get a handout.  

[velochic]

It's a tough position to be in, but there is always someone who is going to be on either side of richer and poorer than you and one will almost always encounter a situation that is beyond their financial means.  It can be hard to find the voice to just say, "No" about things that can't be afforded.  When younger, I have been in places where I couldn't afford to get a new tube for my bike tire (and it was my only form of transportation) and had to say "No, I can't meet you for the free concert, because I can't get there".  We are doing well during this late stage of life and there are still things that we have to say "no" to.  You just have to ignore others because no matter what their income or net worth, there are most definitely people who can afford something they cannot and they are just not thinking things through.  Everybody, at some point in life will encounter a situation that is beyond their budget.  Likewise, everybody (in America) will probably be at a point in their lives to help out.  Because of the culture we live in, and how our jobs and appearance of wealth (not necessarily actual wealth) are tied to our level of self-worth, it can be a difficult situation, but living beyond one's means, even if it means to not hurt feelings or feel included, isn't the solution, IMO.  It's why people get into so much debt.  Just be open, honest, and don't let anyone push you into a situation you're not able to fiscally handle.

[Adelio]

OH, I've seen this too!  There's a side of my family that thinks being rich is "lucky"....nevermind that no one in our family is "rich" bc they found a winnnig lotto ticket.   My mother has worked her tail her whole life, often sacrificing important events and time with family (and is even now minimally involved with her grandchildren) due to career coming first.  So of course she paid for everything for my sister's wedding, including rehearsal dinner bc groom and fam had nothing.   Well, groom's family is type that thinks money is luck.  As they were preparing to leave my mother's house, after staying for two weeks, they asked if they could clean it for $80.  I couldn't believe it.  I about fainted. 

I don't expect people with money to pay for things, which you pointed out, but I do appreciate a little sensitivity or just a memory of when jobs weren't so good.  And frankly, I'm not as ambitious (financially) as my parents, as I have stayed home with my children and my mother thinks it's nuts.  I do think part of the reason my mother is not sensitive to our financial needs is bc she thinks I should go back to work. 

Even if I did have lots of disposable income, I don't like the idea of eating out....or spending lots of money eating out.  

And currently, dh and I have a debate about whether or not we should let family pay for things.  I have a rich aunt that paid for us to come to a small family reunion a few years back....a big reunion is coming up and dh doesn't want to go unless we can afford it, which we can't unless we charge it.  I figure auntie  wouldn't offer unless she wants to pay, so why shouldn't we go....but he feels it is taking advantage and would rather not go.  
 

Originally Posted by nmbutts 

I find this thread very interesting, because I am on the other end of the spectrum.  I have more money than certain family members and it seems that it doesn't matter how much more, it's just means that more is more and that means they feel entitled to it.  It's only a few people, but it makes me feel very ungenerous toward them, because they expect me to cover meals out, hotels, etc.  In fact, for several weeks I've been thinking about starting a thread about it, to see if anyone with a higher income can relate, but I've been unsure of what kind of response it would get.

Anyway, I don't see that kind of entitlement in this thread.  I'm just saying that there's an issue on the other side, too.

OP, I think the way your aunt insisted on a more expensive place and expecting you to be able to afford it was pretty crappy.  I would pretty much assume that most people don't want to spend $50 for lunch on my whim, so if I just had to eat at a certain place I would make sure I could afford to treat.  I've also been on the other end and I've learned to speak up and say that it's just not in the budget right now.

[bearski5]

Originally Posted by laohaire 

Hmm. I am not obligated to earn more money so that you or anyone else can insist I go to a spa or go out all the time.

I am not obligated to earn more money so that someone else can deceive me into believing I am being treated for lunch but you actually have strings attached that you won't tell me about until too late.

I am not obligated to earn more money so that someone else can place me into a situation where you know that I will need to pay various fees (mandatory gratuities, port fees, whatever) when you have full knowledge of these fees and I, because I don't live that kind of life, had no idea existed.

There is a lesson to be learned though - don't get burned. Not because I or anyone else am obligated to anyone, but I guess the bottom line is that because some people abuse the situation, you must say no to all "gifts" and "offers," because it might bite you in the butt later.

That wasn't what I was getting at at all...... It all comes down to this....If you tell someone that you can't go somewhere, I don't think you should have to give them a reason why you can't go. I never tell people that I can't go because I don't have the money, I just don't think it's their business....so I'm not sure why people feel the need to tell others. They should take it that you can't go and leave it at that.....or you could come up with something that you can afford.     And you should always check into things before you to them..always...even if you don't live that life!