Estranged mother- WWYD - Page 3

[Tracy]

Partaria,

I can relate to your story.   On many levels and I'm old.  Probably less than 10 years younger than your mom!

I'm proud of you for standing up the way you did and got yourself to college and cutting off your mom.   As one who has btdt I can tell you it was the most important move in my life.  And my mother was very talented at getting the whole world to take her side.    I got letters from perfect strangers, "I met your mother, and she says you won't talk to her, how can you do that?"  blah, blah, blah.   I refused contact for a very long time.  And btw, many of those 'helpers' later wrote me that they were wrong and that yes, my mother was 'crazy.'  

At some point you may find a place for her in your life and that speaks to the part of you that does not want to deliberately hurt her.   But I think you are not there now.   You have to be tough to survive that childhood and then pull yourself up from your bootstraps and heal and do that work and meet a good man and marriage and have a completely different type of childhoood for your baby.  Like I said btdt.  This is a tough road for a daughter.  But once you had your child I'm sure you cracked open and I'm sure that is why there is part of a soft spot for her.  Totally get it.   But at the same time I don't think that means that now you can forge a relationship with her.   Honor the soft spot, work with your theapist and continue to keep your boundaries strong.     The answer will reveal itself.

[serenbat]

 OP has healing to do, and eventually that means dealing with the mother in one way or another. Here at MDC, and in cruchy life in general, there is an expressed desire to resolve conflict, forgive, have compassion and heal. Living those ideals often means hard work. Was the mother abusive? Yes. Should OP have firm boundaries? Yes. But living in a hole is not a boundary, it's a hole. And to the PP who compared the situation to an abusive partner, well, it isn't the same. We are bound to our mothers in a unique way. To discount that relationship discounts most of what we profess as parents. OP will be a much stronger, healthier person if she chooses to deal with this situation proactively and head on. Writing "return to sender" on the box may sound proactive to some, but it's just another dodge that doesn't heal or resolve the damage.

exactly!

many people in/have been "abusive relationships" are simply not capable of acting on their own and not being able to even open it shows she needs to come with terms with issues and clearly she hasn't yet- she is now a mother and like her mother or not, even against she wishes, her child may desire a relationship and much sooner then she envisions now

the OP is receiving help (and as I said prior that is GREAT!) - her main help should come from who knows her and who she trusts - regardless if she opens, tosses, etc - she should do so with the assistance of someone IRL that can help her deal with the long term consequences of what ever her decision is and the ramifications it will hold no matter what she does - this to me is far more of an issue here-and that DOES NOT mean she must have the mother in her life

you can protect your child and still have a relationship with a person like in this situation --- the child does have the right to choose later if they want it and the OP would need to deal with that as well

as I stated prior- if the OP was at a place (and she clearly comes across as not near it-IMO) that she could just toss it- it would have happened

the grandmother comes across as the most vial monster in the world and the OP doesn't appear to be a the place to be done wanting her in her life .......yet

and according to my mail carrier you can't just write return to sender if it is you and your correct address you would need to pay to have it returned (unless the mother is a business/company) that excepts returns--- she is not just returning something because she doesn't want it for free

[Imakcerka]

I think telling her she's wrong to want to keep her mother out at this point and is not dealing with the issue and causes a bit of guilt.  I get it all the time.  Let dad see the kids let dad talk to the kids... you're hurting him.  Screw him.  He hurt me, why are his feelings in need of more respect than mine?!   Punching your kid in the head for not taking out the trash... if he did it to me... why wouldn't he do it them?  If you fear someone and you never want your children to go through that kind of pain, then who gives a FUQ about how the grandparent feels.  It's like saying yes they screwed up but it's ok to let them back into your life.  My mother allowed us around her mother.  Good god that woman was the devil.  You don't stab your kid with a knife and then say "oh but I"m better now, let me see my grandkids."
 

If it was her abusive husband, who broke her arm or beat the crap out of her... would you push her to let the kids see their father?

 OP IT IS YOUR LIFE!  YOU DO NOT HAVE TO ALLOW TOXIC PEOPLE IN IT!  And as for your son asking questions, you can seriously just tell him that grandma did not treat you well and you're uncomfortable to have her around him. 

[Tumble Bumbles]

I completely agree with this post. And the post about being obligated to our mothers because we are "uniquely tied to them" or some such? Please. I am grateful to my mom for birthing me (well, to be technical about it, I'm grateful to God for giving me life) and I am grateful for the good things she has done -- but I am in no way, shape, or form obligated to allow abusive people in my life or near my children. At all. Whatsoever. It's sad that some people believe that blood relation automatically means someone is entitled to have a position in your life regardless of how they treat you. I disagree.

 If your mother had changed at all, she would begin by honoring your request for no contact unless you initiated it. People who have "changed" honor boundaries and respect them, even if they may not like it. You got your answer of whether or not she changed by receiving the package (and creepy birthday card to your husband) to begin with. Intimidation is a form of abuse. She is essentially communicating that she doesn't care whatsoever what your wishes are, how you feel, or what you've chosen for your life -- she wants what she wants (a relationship) and she's going to send packages and birthday cards whether you like it or not. That doesn't sound like a loving grandmother who has changed to me.

OP, protect your family.

Originally Posted by Imakcerka 

And why should she acknowledge it?  What benefit do you think will come of it all.  The unproportioned positive will outway the negative?  Ignore the fact that this person actually physically mentally and emotionally abused her so that she can possibly have access to her son.  What do you not get about all this?  Are what if's so important to you?  How do you not understand that you don't have to consider anyone elses feelings when it comes to the safety and well being of yourself and your children? 

Enjoy yourself, you seem to be already.

 

[serenbat]

If it was her abusive husband, who broke her arm or beat the crap out of her... would you push her to let the kids see their father?

you file charges and get help

clearly the OP is not there

when you suggest a relationship you clearly are not done-you either get done, get over it or find how to deal with it

regardless if others feel she shouldn't have a relationship deep down it is all up to the OP, if she needs it - she needs the help to make it work (it's call support - not mass bandwagon jumping)

there may be tons of people in her life that will call her crazy and maybe she will get closure or a sense of the mother she will really be herself--she a young mother, things may change years from now for her 

if you reread what the OP wrote this clearly comes across as a conflicted person-not resolute in a non-relationship- she wants the best and not a repeat for her child but she comes across as having lots of pain she is still deal greatly with --not over and not yet moved on

[Tumble Bumbles]

Originally Posted by Imakcerka 

And as for your son asking questions, you can seriously just tell him that grandma did not treat you well and you're uncomfortable to have her around him. 

Seriously. Do people think kids are stupid? They're way more insightful than we give them credit for. There are times I have to take breaks from my mom because she can be toxic (though not as toxic as the OP's mom sounds!). When my oldest has asked questions, I plainly say, "remember when grandma yelled at me the other day? I don't allow people in my home who yell at me and speak to me disrespectfully so I'm taking a break from grandma until she can speak to me respectfully". She gets this. She's 6.

Believe me, your son will get it. Especially when he's older if you feel comfortable revealing more of the details (this is up to you, obviously). We're 100% honest with our children (within the bounds of development and age-appropriateness). They aren't dumb, really. No kid I've ever known has regretted not knowing a truly toxic relative. Yes, maybe sadness for having missed out on the stereotypical grandma/grandchild relationship -- but when they actually know the person, they realize that was never going to happen anyway. And if when your son is 18 he wants to see the crazy for himself, let him go for it. He likely won't be stupid then either and can suss it out for himself. If she's done a 180 degree miracle change, well then you can apologize but I wouldn't hold my breath. I really wouldn't.

[Tumble Bumbles]

I don't see the OP as particularly conflicted. My armchair analysis is, I see her as mourning the relationship she wanted but didn't have, and in her heart of hearts feeling sad for that but still knowing her mom is toxic but feeling the societally-heaped guilt that says "butttt itttsss yourr mooootherrrrrrr". I think she came here for reassurance that it's okay to not allow abusive people around you or your children even if it's your mother.

OP, it truly is okay to not have abusive, toxic people around you or your children. Even if it is your mother. If she "changed" then my responses would be different but to me it's clear she hasn't since she can't even manage to respect the boundaries you've set about contact.

[Tumble Bumbles]

I'm going to leave the thread now that I've said my piece but OP I do wish you peace and safety. If you want to talk further (I have experience with toxic relatives, oh boy lol) feel free to PM. Take care :)

[Imakcerka]

Have you been there Serenbat?  Have you been abused by a parent?  You're conflicted.  Why didn't they love you?  Why couldn't they show you that they cared for you?  You try in so many ways to understand and you just can't.  I let my dad back in because I just wanted him to love me.  And you know what, he doesn't love me.  He just didn't want me to choose to keep him out of my life.  I had no right to do that in his mind.  Blood is thicker than water.  He mistreated me, treated my kids poorly.  For what?  He didn't change, he got worse.  My girls were left confused by his actions.  And I was left to feel guilt for letting him in and sadness for still feeling like the little girl who wasn't good enough to be loved by him. 

I'm seriously sick by the fact that you obviously do not understand the enormity of the pain these kind of parents have caused.  They don't deserve to enjoy the grandchild of the child they destroyed. 

[serenbat]

let's be clear here

 If your mother had changed at all, she would begin by honoring your request for no contact unless you initiated it. 

do you know something that is not posted?

this is what the OP posted - 

I sent her a short letter that said she needed to be in therapy. I was in therapy, and I didn’t want communication with her until she decided to become a healthier person.

no one here knows the current situation do they?

[jess in hawaii]

If you really believe, with good reason, that your father would abuse your children the way he abused you, then of course you keep them away. But if your fears are speculative, if he has healed to a point where he doesn't act like that, if you can have interaction with him in a way that never opens the door for mistreatment, then that is the highest choice for healing. That is what I'm trying to say. No one is saying that OP should subject her children to abuse, only that it is possible to have a healing relationship, but it takes work, it needs support, and sometimes it still hurts while it's healing. There were years at a time I did not have contact with either of my parents, but I slowly opened the door, little by little so that my family could find some semblance of healing, and I am glad that I did.

Yelling with lots of !!!!! doesn't make you right, it just makes you loud, which is kind of contradictory in a thread about avoiding abuse.
 

Originally Posted by Imakcerka 

I think telling her she's wrong to want to keep her mother out at this point and is not dealing with the issue and causes a bit of guilt.  I get it all the time.  Let dad see the kids let dad talk to the kids... you're hurting him.  Screw him.  He hurt me, why are his feelings in need of more respect than mine?!   Punching your kid in the head for not taking out the trash... if he did it to me... why wouldn't he do it them?  If you fear someone and you never want your children to go through that kind of pain, then who gives a FUQ about how the grandparent feels.  It's like saying yes they screwed up but it's ok to let them back into your life.  My mother allowed us around her mother.  Good god that woman was the devil.  You don't stab your kid with a knife and then say "oh but I"m better now, let me see my grandkids."
 

If it was her abusive husband, who broke her arm or beat the crap out of her... would you push her to let the kids see their father?

 OP IT IS YOUR LIFE!  YOU DO NOT HAVE TO ALLOW TOXIC PEOPLE IN IT!  And as for your son asking questions, you can seriously just tell him that grandma did not treat you well and you're uncomfortable to have her around him. 

[Imakcerka]

Since it wasn't for you... my yelling... I was yelling as an abused kid saying we don't have to put up with them anymore.  But you can come up with anything you like for that one.  I do believe in healing, I'm not healed but I'm healing.  I find it a bit sick that you stated I was being contradictory with capital letters while discussing abuse.  Much appreciated.  Thanks.  You obviously have no idea what abuse really is.

 

Originally Posted by jess in hawaii 

If you really believe, with good reason, that your father would abuse your children the way he abused you, then of course you keep them away. But if your fears are speculative, if he has healed to a point where he doesn't act like that, if you can have interaction with him in a way that never opens the door for mistreatment, then that is the highest choice for healing. That is what I'm trying to say. No one is saying that OP should subject her children to abuse, only that it is possible to have a healing relationship, but it takes work, it needs support, and sometimes it still hurts while it's healing. There were years at a time I did not have contact with either of my parents, but I slowly opened the door, little by little so that my family could find some semblance of healing, and I am glad that I did.

Yelling with lots of !!!!! doesn't make you right, it just makes you loud, which is kind of contradictory in a thread about avoiding abuse.
 

[Linda on the move]

Originally Posted by jess in hawaii 

But living in a hole is not a boundary, it's a hole. ....We are bound to our mothers in a unique way. To discount that relationship discounts most of what we profess as parents. .

No we aren't. I'm not uniquely bound to my mother, who allowed my father to repeatedly rape me because she like living on his income. I've adopted other women in my life to be my mothers. None of them are related to me, some aren't even the same race! 

I look just like my mom. We have some of the same health issues. But that's it. It's a DNA connection, nothing more.

Cutting an abusive parent out of one's life isn't living in hole. Sometimes, it's about loving ourselves and choosing to have a whole, wonderful life in spite of having sh*tty parents and horrific childhoods.

The only way that some of the comments on this thread make any sense to me is if the posters fear their children cutting them out at some point.

Discounting my relationship with my parent discounts NOTHING about what I stand for as a mother or the choices I've been making every single day of my kids' lives.  My relationship with my kids is not based on the idea that they owe me something because they came out of my womb.

My kids don't have grandparents. My DH's parents, who were wonderful people, have passed on. My parents are alive well, but are allowed very little contact with my children. It is too bad because nice grandparents can be a wonderful thing for a child, and DH and I are looking forward to some day playing that role.

But just as so many other things about raising my kids has been about giving them what I didn't get as a child, the grandparent thing will be like that to. I'll get to be the really wonderful grandparent who provides loving support to my kids as they raise their kids.

My kids are teens and know that I was abused as a child, but they don't know the details. The details are just too awful. I wouldn't want to burden them. They've never seemed put out about not getting to spend the night with grandparents, or spending holidays with just the 4 of us. They think we are a really cool family, they suspect we have more fun as a family that a lot of families do.

I broke a family pattern, which is a huge thing to do. The OPer is moving that way too, but she is at the beginning of the journey.  For those who haven't got a clue what that really means, good for you. Must be nice. Those of us who grew up in crazy, dysfunctional homes but are raising our children in emotionally healthy homes are doing one of the most difficult things possible, something that is statistically unlikely.

But comments that we should stick around, let crazy people decide things for us, or be doormats for the sake of mothers *who completely failed to mother us* are out of place.

[jess in hawaii]

Originally Posted by Imakcerka 

I'm seriously sick by the fact that you obviously do not understand the enormity of the pain these kind of parents have caused.  They don't deserve to enjoy the grandchild of the child they destroyed. 

The pain is understood very well. What you don't understand is that some of us have been able to work through the trauma, and we are happier than we would be because we did the work. "Obviously" you think everyone should be as miserable as you. I am offering a different perspective, one in which someone can choose to be as content as me, instead. I could say that I am "sickened" by your lack of comprehension, but I am compassionate, so I wish you peace.

[Imakcerka]

Serenbat, Jess... have either one of you dealt with an abusive parent?  Mentally, physically emotionally abusive?  I can't imagine that if you had you would be so willing to tell someone that that parent could change and that she shouldn't necessarily try to close doors.  I just don't get it.  I almost think you guys are completely unaware and infact offering advice without understanding what it's like to be in this kind of situation.  A package may seem small to you but when you know that parent, you know it's bigger than that.  And it gets scary and all those feelings flood back to you. 

[jess in hawaii]

Whatever. Keep lashing out. Go ahead, be abusive yourself. I have seen how you have behaved towards other members on other threads, and I should have known better than to engage you at all. I am ignoring your comments as of this moment.
 

Originally Posted by Imakcerka  

You obviously have no idea what abuse really is.

[Imakcerka]

Why would I want others to be miserable?  I'm not miserable.  Explain to me how her mother could possibly redeem herself for all the wrong she did?  Forgiving is one thing.  I can forgive but forgiving doesn't mean I have to open my door to someone who tormented me.  Your contentment may not necessarily come from healing... maybe just acceptance.  Accept what you want, but I don't find that healthy at all. 

Removed something that didn't need to be said. 
 

Originally Posted by jess in hawaii 

The pain is understood very well. What you don't understand is that some of us have been able to work through the trauma, and we are happier than we would be because we did the work. "Obviously" you think everyone should be as miserable as you. I am offering a different perspective, one in which someone can choose to be as content as me, instead. I could say that I am "sickened" by your lack of comprehension, but I am compassionate, so I wish you peace.

Edited by Imakcerka - 12/30/11 at 2:02pm

[Imakcerka]

didn't need to be said.

Edited by Imakcerka - 12/30/11 at 2:01pm

[A&A]

Originally Posted by Tracy 

Partaria,

I can relate to your story.   On many levels and I'm old.  Probably less than 10 years younger than your mom!

I'm proud of you for standing up the way you did and got yourself to college and cutting off your mom.   As one who has btdt I can tell you it was the most important move in my life.  And my mother was very talented at getting the whole world to take her side.    I got letters from perfect strangers, "I met your mother, and she says you won't talk to her, how can you do that?"  blah, blah, blah.   I refused contact for a very long time.  And btw, many of those 'helpers' later wrote me that they were wrong and that yes, my mother was 'crazy.'  

At some point you may find a place for her in your life and that speaks to the part of you that does not want to deliberately hurt her.   But I think you are not there now.   You have to be tough to survive that childhood and then pull yourself up from your bootstraps and heal and do that work and meet a good man and marriage and have a completely different type of childhoood for your baby.  Like I said btdt.  This is a tough road for a daughter.  But once you had your child I'm sure you cracked open and I'm sure that is why there is part of a soft spot for her.  Totally get it.   But at the same time I don't think that means that now you can forge a relationship with her.   Honor the soft spot, work with your theapist and continue to keep your boundaries strong.     The answer will reveal itself.

As usual, Tracy is very wise. 

[dakotablue]

OP

Ok I didn't read the whole thread because it seemed to be straying away.

I can kinda relate to the feeling helpless like a child thing do to abuse from people who are now healthy.

Anyway, I'd accept the package. I'd assume since she sends random packages that for now its just that. My birthmother's mother, who has never met me or spoken to me and met my sister once, sent my sister a box of stuffed animals for her girls. I think its weird. But for that She accepted it for what it was, weird but kind gesture.

So maybe this is a weird but kind gesture. No reply or note from you is great. A gift requires no response from from the recipient. Maybe she just likes the idea of him having something.

Either way don't worry unless it continues or becomes something more. Starting a 'return to sender' war begins a type of contact and type of relationship. For now let the relationship be in her head.

I'm in awe of the strength you had to walk away...