Estranged mother- WWYD - Page 4

[dakotablue]

Originally Posted by jess in hawaii 

If you really believe, with good reason, that your father would abuse your children the way he abused you, then of course you keep them away. But if your fears are speculative, if he has healed to a point where he doesn't act like that, if you can have interaction with him in a way that never opens the door for mistreatment, then that is the highest choice for healing. That is what I'm trying to say. No one is saying that OP should subject her children to abuse, only that it is possible to have a healing relationship, but it takes work, it needs support, and sometimes it still hurts while it's healing. There were years at a time I did not have contact with either of my parents, but I slowly opened the door, little by little so that my family could find some semblance of healing, and I am glad that I did.

Yelling with lots of !!!!! doesn't make you right, it just makes you loud, which is kind of contradictory in a thread about avoiding abuse.
 

OK sorry I had to reply to this.

Ok I get you've healed. I've healed. I am allowing a relationship with my father and stepmother and my children. They did not feed me or take care of my needs (like clothing ect) when I was a child. They are NEVER EVER EVER going to have the opportunity to do that with my children. I love them. I am grateful to have them in my lives. I get what your trying to say.

That said I am not willing to trust 'healing' if there was abuse I couldn't avoid. I'm not willing to risk my children.

If a dog has bitten before then had 'help'  its not my children I'm throwing into the right to test if change has really happened.

I've just found people rarely change and triggers remain the same even if they try. IF someone gets past their demons great! Even so I'm not putting my children in the line of fire.

[jess in hawaii]

I am not in any way disagreeing with this. Again, I am not saying to "throw the children into the ring to test if change has happened". I am saying that by cautiously, tentatively allowing the door to open a crack, one can determine if any change has been made, and how much contact/relationship is healthy and appropriate.

Also, I can not change the other person's triggers, but I can choose to not be triggered, and I can choose to interact positively and walk away when it is no longer possible. That's a long way from where I was in my relationships 10 or 20 years ago.
 

Originally Posted by dakotablue 

That said I am not willing to trust 'healing' if there was abuse I couldn't avoid. I'm not willing to risk my children.

If a dog has bitten before then had 'help'  its not my children I'm throwing into the right to test if change has really happened.

I've just found people rarely change and triggers remain the same even if they try. IF someone gets past their demons great! Even so I'm not putting my children in the line of fire.

[4midablemama]

Originally Posted by jess in hawaii 

I am not in any way disagreeing with this. Again, I am not saying to "throw the children into the ring to test if change has happened". I am saying that by cautiously, tentatively allowing the door to open a crack, one can determine if any change has been made, and how much contact/relationship is healthy and appropriate.

Also, I can not change the other person's triggers, but I can choose to not be triggered, and I can choose to interact positively and walk away when it is no longer possible. That's a long way from where I was in my relationships 10 or 20 years ago.
 

As the child of a toxic parent, one who was mentally and physically abusive, I do not feel that it is MY responsibility to crack the door. I spent 27 years forgiving and forgetting and having my forgiveness thrown back into my face, time after time after time. I spent 27 years waiting for my father to change, to see what he was doing to me and to show some sign that he was remorseful, but IT NEVER HAPPENED. When I cut off contact, it was to save my own sanity, and as much as I sincerely hated my father at that time, it was still one of the hardest things I have ever done. It has taken me almost 10 years to finally figure out that it was OKAY to make that cut, that I am not a horrible person because I saved myself by sacrificing my relationship, horrible as it was, with one of the two people who gave me life. If my father ever decides that he wants a relationship with my children, fine and dandy, but he will have to work, and work HARD, to prove to me that he has changed before he gets so much as a glance at a photograph of one of my kids. There will be no instant forgiveness, there will no forgetting, period. The burden of proof is not mine to bear, and I will not risk having my children hurt the way I was. 
 

[jess in hawaii]

::sigh::

I think so many people on this thread are responding with somewhat knee-jerk reactions out of their own hurt and not even trying to understand my and certain other posters' points. The OP's mother made the first move by sending the present. I believe she would do well to take that as a small yet positive gesture and cautiously see where it can go. Obviously, she needs to have boundaries and pull back if it still looks just as toxic, but for her there is potentially an opportunity for growth and healing, which seemed to be what she was trying to figure out.

Now this is getting boring, I'm done.

Aloha.

Originally Posted by 4midablemama 

As the child of a toxic parent, one who was mentally and physically abusive, I do not feel that it is MY responsibility to crack the door. I spent 27 years forgiving and forgetting and having my forgiveness thrown back into my face, time after time after time. I spent 27 years waiting for my father to change, to see what he was doing to me and to show some sign that he was remorseful, but IT NEVER HAPPENED. When I cut off contact, it was to save my own sanity, and as much as I sincerely hated my father at that time, it was still one of the hardest things I have ever done. It has taken me almost 10 years to finally figure out that it was OKAY to make that cut, that I am not a horrible person because I saved myself by sacrificing my relationship, horrible as it was, with one of the two people who gave me life. If my father ever decides that he wants a relationship with my children, fine and dandy, but he will have to work, and work HARD, to prove to me that he has changed before he gets so much as a glance at a photograph of one of my kids. There will be no instant forgiveness, there will no forgetting, period. The burden of proof is not mine to bear, and I will not risk having my children hurt the way I was. 
 

[kitchensqueen]

OP, I am in nearly the exact same situation with my own mother. It was downright eerie for me to read your post. I'm going to read the whole the entire thread this weekend before I reply further, but just wanted to put it out there that you're not alone. I completely understand how you feel in just wanting it to be over and your need to protect your son and stay healthy yourself. I'm right there in the same boat.

[Linda on the move]

Originally Posted by jess in hawaii 

I am saying that by cautiously, tentatively allowing the door to open a crack, one can determine if any change has been made, and how much contact/relationship is healthy and appropriate. Also, I can not change the other person's triggers, but I can choose to not be triggered, and I can choose to interact positively and walk away when it is no longer possible

Its sounds like what you are doing is working for you, which is great. But healing and growth and forgiveness looks very different from adult survivor to adult survivor, just as our parents paths have turned out very differently.

For me, forgiveness mean letting go of the hurt and trauma of the past so that I can live fully in the present. It's been a life long process. It doesn't have anything to do with what is going on with my parents now (they are still crazy) but about my desire to move forward. To let it go. To know that the hardest part is over.

I do not believe that forgiveness has any correlation to the type of relation that one has with their abusive parent. Lots of survivors who haven't forgiven or processed much as all spend holidays with their crazy relatives and let them interact with their kids. Some people who've really done their work find ways to have relationship with their extended family, but for other people who've done their work, even semi-healthy relationship are not possible because of what is going on with the family member.

Your posts indicate that if someone has done their work, they will then be able to have something of a relationship *because that's how it worked out for you.*  I'm not arguing about your own experience, just saying that you cannot generalize to others based on it. What is possible and healthy in one situation isn't possible or healthy in another.

[Partaria]

I stayed away from this thread for a bit because things were getting a bit argumentative.

Just wanted to say thanks for the perspectives and support, mamas. 

While I understand the idea that my mother's gesture is positive, I'm sorry to say that I know that it's not, you see. I know enough about her, about her personal history, all of it, to know that it's an attempt to rattle my cage. I think for some families, amazing healing between people can come about after abuse. But that's not so for all families, and it doesn't need to be so for all families. 

Some of you mentioned that you were dealing with nearly identical situations with your parent(s). If you want to PM me, please do... I ended up making a decision about this, and I am comfortable with it. It would be great to discuss with others if you want.

[pokeyrin]

Partaria:  May I applaud you for your courage and your compassion? You have travelled a very difficult road and no one can possibly know each bump and curve as you do. I applaud you for the courage it took to leave your old toxic life behind and to seek a healthier life, I can only imagine it was probably one of the hardest decisions you've ever had to make. I applaud you for the compassionate and wise response you gave here to those who chose to give you input. You came here seeking compassion and understanding for your individual situation. While I believe people wanted to give that...personally I've always found that it's difficult for some to do that without it being colored by their own life experiences.

For whatever it's worth, I think since the day you walked away you've made the right decision for you and you continue to do so.

[pokeyrin]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Linda on the move 

Its sounds like what you are doing is working for you, which is great. But healing and growth and forgiveness looks very different from adult survivor to adult survivor, just as our parents paths have turned out very differently.

For me, forgiveness mean letting go of the hurt and trauma of the past so that I can live fully in the present. It's been a life long process. It doesn't have anything to do with what is going on with my parents now (they are still crazy) but about my desire to move forward. To let it go. To know that the hardest part is over.

I do not believe that forgiveness has any correlation to the type of relation that one has with their abusive parent. Lots of survivors who haven't forgiven or processed much as all spend holidays with their crazy relatives and let them interact with their kids. Some people who've really done their work find ways to have relationship with their extended family, but for other people who've done their work, even semi-healthy relationship are not possible because of what is going on with the family member.

Your posts indicate that if someone has done their work, they will then be able to have something of a relationship *because that's how it worked out for you.*  I'm not arguing about your own experience, just saying that you cannot generalize to others based on it. What is possible and healthy in one situation isn't possible or healthy in another.

This was put so eloquently and with the true understanding and compassion that each situation is unique to the individual who has/is experiencing it.
 

[LynnS6]

Originally Posted by serenbat 

the state the OP lists does allow grandparent's rights and a minor child can request to be allowed (if a judge agrees) to see the grandparents

Before we frighten this poor mother to death, the law in Wisconsin reads that visitation may be granted if "(e) The grandparent is not likely to act in a manner that is contrary to decisions that are made by a parent who has legal custody of the child and that are related to the child's physical, emotional, educational or spiritual welfare. (f) The visitation is in the best interest of the child." Furthermore, reading the laws, it appears that they are primarily intended for cases of divorce, death of a parent or when the grandparents have served a parental role.

I don't think those will apply to the OP's mother.

OP: I think the question is whether you feel like your mother is stalking you and whether you can do anything about it. Legally, one package probably isn't, but I agree in calling the police. Is there any way to tell your relatives you don't want your address given out? Using a P.O. Box will help some, but as others have pointed out, it won't cure it all.

If you don't have a will, MAKE ONE ASAP. While courts sometimes don't abide by the will, they most often do if there's no solid reason not to.

The other thing to remember is that your mother has held herself to cards once or twice a year. I know you feel vulnerable and protective as a new mom, but don't catastrophize if you can help it. A talk with your therapist would be good.

[serenbat]

Originally Posted by serenbat 

the state the OP lists does allow grandparent's rights and a minor child can request to be allowed (if a judge agrees) to see the grandparents

Before we frighten this poor mother to death, the law in Wisconsin reads that visitation may be granted if "(e) The grandparent is not likely to act in a manner that is contrary to decisions that are made by a parent who has legal custody of the child and that are related to the child's physical, emotional, educational or spiritual welfare. (f) The visitation is in the best interest of the child." Furthermore, reading the laws, it appears that they are primarily intended for cases of divorce, death of a parent or when the grandparents have served a parental role.

one only has to look at the recent thread in the Parenting section (grandparents rights) & Toxic In-laws her in PG section-it's easy for some that never had much  contact and it was NOT ment to "frighten" the OP- I know what my state laws are and I know that judges take GREAT liberties in certain situations as to how they apply said laws-and they do this in other states too

looks like the OP is done with the thread and has taken care of the situation............ and that should be respected

Edited by serenbat - 2/11/12 at 4:30am