It is VERY stressful that it takes 2 3/4 year old 1-2 hours to fall asleep for nap and bed-what...

[kfillmore]

We have had difficult sleep since, I guess, she became a toddler. It takes a long time for her to fall asleep. It used to be 40 minutes or so, more at night. Now it is longer, ugh. I am so exausted. She wakes up at night too, at least three times. I also wake up on my own. Sleep has become the main focus of my life. I start thinking about bedtime as soon as we wake up. 

I do still nurse which I hope isn't causing any probles. I am trying to get my nerve up to cut out the middle of the night nursing, maybe them she won't wake me up.

It is also difficult because if it takes her a long time to get to sleep at nap then she wakes up late and then may not be that tired at night. And then she wakes up later in the morning...and so on.

I don't understand what most people do. I mean we can't nap earlier than 12:30 because 2 time a week we are busy until then. We generally aim for in bed between 12:30 and 1:00. Then she sleeps for two hour (sometimes 1 1/2). That means she wakes up between 3:30 and 4:30. I usually sleep a bit too. Then I always find the rest of the day really difficult. I am tired. We need to eat. She is often clingy for a while. I feel like she need exercise so we try to walk. We need to wash up. AND I really want to get some learning/teaching in there. HOW HOW HOW do people do it?? I go to bed not liking myself very much.

dropping naps isn't great either because by 3 she is tired and bedtime stuff becomes difficult with a lot of upsettness plus I need a break.

[lovepickles]

Your schedule sounds like my day, too. DD is 2 now and sleep is something I've been obsessed with as well. People think I'm a little crazy about her naps but sometimes it takes her an hour or 2 to finally BE asleep. I also still hold her for naps. I think nursing has helped us quite a bit and if I didn't nurse her at night I think I would get less sleep trying to comfort her in other ways. Every child is different and adjusting to your childs sleep patterns may feel bizarre but I think it is fairly normal, especially when teething. I think you should keep up the nursing for as long as you are comfortable with it but cutting out night nursing won't guarantee she'll sleep through and it might actually worsen the situation by introducing anxiety and confusion. One thing that might help is nursing her then getting your husband to get her to sleep by singing, bouncing, etc.

[Peony]

When naps are taking longer to accomplish, then I cut them out if they haven't been working on dropping them already. My 3 kids that are 2+ years old, stopped napping at 2. Two kids stopped napping on their own right when they turned 2, one continued to nap for a couple more months until she started doing what you are describing. Once they stop napping then they go to bed easier at night and earlier. The late afternoon hours are not pleasant until they used to not napping, that transition often takes 1-2 months. They fall asleep in the car sometimes and I usually let them if if is earlier in the day, I wake them up if it is later or else we are looking at a 9:30pm bedtime. They go to bed between 7-7:30pm with no nap. That is when I get my stuff down, after the kids go to bed. It isn't ideal because of course by then I am tired and my motivation isn't the greatest but I prefer that then the frustration of trying and trying to get a kid asleep for hours. 

Once you get on that path of later naps, late bedtime, later wake up, it becomes so hard to get out of, I always wished they had a reset button where I could start over! I am not flexible, I can't be with multiple kids, the napping child either naps during the window of time that I have allotted so they just don't. We leave the house at 2:30pm for school pick up for the older kids and hence the reason I can not do the late mornings either, we leave by 7:45am so once again any sleeping kid gets woke up. 

And I'll second love pickles about the night weaning. It doesn't mean that they will sleep if they are night weaned. 

[Daffodil]

It sounds to me like it's time to drop the nap.  My kids were both done napping by that age.  There is a tough transition period when your kid doesn't need to sleep mid-day, but can't always quite make it to a reasonable bedtime hour without falling asleep.  Sometimes they tend to fall asleep around 5, which really messes things up because then they won't go to sleep at night.  For a while you just do everything you can to keep the kid awake until at least 6:30 or 7:00 and deal with the occasional very late nap messing it all up.  On the days when the kid does manage to go without a nap, you should get a nice, early, easy bedtime that will make it all worthwhile.  Sure, it's nice to get a break in the afternoon, but you're paying for it by spending extra time getting the kid to sleep in the afternoon and evening.  Getting too much sleep during the day may keep her from sleeping as well at night, too.  And it's nice not to have to plan your day around naps, but just be able to go do what you want when you want.

Nightweaning really helped both my kids sleep through the night.  I nightweaned both of them right around the time they turned 2.  One slept through the night for the first time ever in the first week of no nursing at night, and gradually started doing that more and more often.  The other one (who had always been a better sleeper anyway) pretty much instantly started to sleep through the night every night.

[Monkey Keeper]

ITA with Peony and Daffodil (hee--flowers :) ). My DD2 always has had a hard time falling asleep, particularly for naps. When it got to the point that you describe, we gave them up. She was just shy of 3 as well.  The transition to no nap will be painful, I will not lie. But you will quickly find that bedtime goes much, much easier. It actually is pleasant!  And she will fall asleep quickly and easily. 

As for needing a break, I get that. I have 3 kids 5 and under, and she gave up napping when my youngest was a newborn. Substituting a quiet activity like listening to music or a book on tape or, if you do tv a 20 minute show will provide both of you some downtime. She will still need to *rest* in the afternoon, and some days, she may actually fall asleep which means she needs it. Rest time can be hard to implement, but perhaps if you lie down/sit down with her for a while and model it by reading or listening to headphones or something, she will learn to relax and take the time out as well.

Good luck! The sleep battles are exhausting. I always try to remind myself that there are 3 things we cannot force kids to do no matter how much we want them to do them: eat, sleep and poop! ;)

[kfillmore]

ok thanks everyone-one more questions

I think many times when we are getting napping, often times when she is resisiting the most she gets circles and lines under her eyes and just looks looks tired. I get concerned then that I would be stressing her body by not napping.

[Daffodil]

Originally Posted by kfillmore 

ok thanks everyone-one more questions

I think many times when we are getting napping, often times when she is resisiting the most she gets circles and lines under her eyes and just looks looks tired. I get concerned then that I would be stressing her body by not napping.

Maybe it will stress her a little for the rest of that day, but then if she's extra tired she should go to sleep earlier and more easily that night and by the next morning she should be fine.  I know there's this idea that sometimes kids who are overtired don't fall asleep as easily, but I'm not sure I believe in it.  I think in general, a kid who is tired will fall asleep more easily than a kid who isn't tired.  If your DD is really resisting a nap, my guess is it's because she's just not that tired.

[kfillmore]

I forgot ONE more question, sorry. Is the fact that she DOES sleep and sleeps for 2 hours a sign that she need the sleep?

[Monkey Keeper]

Originally Posted by kfillmore 

I forgot ONE more question, sorry. Is the fact that she DOES sleep and sleeps for 2 hours a sign that she need the sleep?

She DOES need the sleep. But how she gets is can vary. If she naps, that's 2 hours *less* sleep she needs at night. So she's not ready for bed till 9-10PM and then is up by early because TOTAL she needs ~12 hours a day. So when she naps, she gets 2 hours at naptime and 10 hours at night. At least that is how my DD2 is. So like Daffodil mentioned, she's really awful and tired for maybe a 36 hour period because in *that period* she is sleep deprived. But as the new schedule sets, she will be getting her 24 hour sleep requirement regularly, just all over night.  I will say that my DD still naps on occasion and still napped every 3rd or 4th day for a while as she adjusted. It's a transition, just like going from 2 naps to 1 nap as a young toddler.

[lovepickles]

I'll repeat that everyone is different but for my husbands work schedule and our overall happiness we put up with the lengthy nap rituals and later bedtimes so DD can play with her dad and be in a good mood 85% of the time. When she isn't well rested she is only happy about 40% of the time and her grumpiness drives me insane. If she is well rested she is much more relaxed and calm during her waking hours. She is an only child so we can afford the flexibility in our schedules. Plus I am a huge believer in naps, even for adults. Lack of regular sleep is so stressful.

[mamazee]

When they give up naps, it takes them a week or so to adjust, but they do adjust. He will be tired at first, and he will probably start going to bed a little early to compensate, or sleep in a little longer in the morning.

[entiti]

Oh gosh, this happened to us after my ds was born a few months ago. dd (2/34) started taking an eternity to get to sleep. We cut out naps (which she really wanted anyway), and started driving down the street at night. Dh puts her in the car with an apple an hour or 2 after dinner and she's out within 5 min. Tranfers to bed and sleeps all night. Beats trying for 2 hours to get her to sleep at home, and with a 5 month old, I just can't handle it right now. I'll do this for the next ten years if I have to:)

Hope you find what works mama!

[crunchy_mommy]

We have a weird approach to sleep because I've tried everything else and what we do is the only thing that sort of 'works' -- basically DS sleeps from midnight-10am and then some days takes a short nap in the afternoon. On the days he doesn't nap, we sometimes try to get him to sleep earlier (with erratic success). I guess what I'm saying is we've decided to just be flexible and that is what's working for us right now -- results in him well-rested and he'll fall asleep pretty quickly at night. She might not need a nap every day... I generally find DS needs one once every three days or so. But his naps are only 30-45mins... if your DD is still napping 2 hours a day, and has circles under her eyes when she doesn't nap, it sounds like she really does need it. Have you tried moving nap time later by an hour or so? Or waking her up an hour or two earlier so she'll be more ready for sleep at nap time?

Oh we did cut out night nursing when DS was 2... He used to wake 10+ times a night to nurse (largely because he didn't really eat solids until he turned 2). He wakes far less now, many nights he sleeps through the night (especially if we don't try to get him in bed too early!) but some nights he still wakes up a couple of times. I just cuddle him back to sleep, it's much easier on me than nursing constantly at least. I have insomnia issues too so I know the feeling of thinking about sleep CONSTANTLY...

[Daffodil]

Originally Posted by PinkBunch 

Originally Posted by kfillmore 

I forgot ONE more question, sorry. Is the fact that she DOES sleep and sleeps for 2 hours a sign that she need the sleep?

She DOES need the sleep. But how she gets is can vary. If she naps, that's 2 hours *less* sleep she needs at night.

I agree with this.  If she's taking more than 40 minutes to fall asleep, it definitely doesn't sound like she needs the sleep right at the time you're trying to get to her go to sleep.  There are different ways you can arrange her sleep so she still gets the same total amount.  You need to figure out a sleep schedule where you're not trying to put her to sleep before she's tired but also not letting her sleep at times that are inconvenient for you (like napping at 5 and then staying up until midnight.)  If you don't like the idea of giving up the nap, what about getting her up earlier in the morning (so she might be more ready to nap at 12:30) or putting her to bed later at night?  If she takes an hour to get to sleep now, maybe you'd find that if you started bedtime an hour later she'd fall asleep a lot faster.  (And even though she'd still be awake during that hour, maybe it would be less stressful for you not to have to spend the time being frustrated that she wasn't falling asleep.)  And maybe if you started bedtime 2 hours later but didn't let her sleep later in the morning, she'd be tired enough to nap at 12:30.

[kfillmore]

 I don't want to give up naps (said in my whiny voice)

I am not sure about giving up my one and only hour by myself.

BUT also, naps are such a sweet time. DD sleeps naked curled up on bed. It is light so I can watch this sweety as she sleeps, her only quiet time. Her eyes shut and hands relaxed. Then when she wakes and calls (or cries...) for me she is all soft and warm and disheveled. Is this just feeling sad about her growing up. I didn't think it would ACHE so much!

[Super~Single~Mama]

Originally Posted by kfillmore 

 I don't want to give up naps (said in my whiny voice)

I am not sure about giving up my one and only hour by myself.

BUT also, naps are such a sweet time. DD sleeps naked curled up on bed. It is light so I can watch this sweety as she sleeps, her only quiet time. Her eyes shut and hands relaxed. Then when she wakes and calls (or cries...) for me she is all soft and warm and disheveled. Is this just feeling sad about her growing up. I didn't think it would ACHE so much!

Don't give up on you time yet :)  I get my "me" time after bedtime. DS is almost 3yo (his bday is Jan 10), and he is giving up his nap. So, I tell him that he doesn't have to go to sleep, but he does have to sit on the bed and read some books while we both have some quiet time.

Then, bedtime is no later than 7:30pm, and then he sleeps for 11-12hours every night! So I get quiet time in the afternoon (if its a weekend - I work full time), AND quiet time in the evening after he goes to bed. I'll take the early bedtime over a nap any day of the week. Seriously, its heaven!!