From ECing to potty learning with a 17 month old? - update of sorts

[nstewart]

Just wondering if anyone can offer some perspectives on going from ECing to potty learning with a 17 month old (or older) child.

DS has been EC'd since 2.5 months and has had very very few poop misses from about 5 or 6 months on (I can count them on both hands for the entire year).  Pees are another matter, although he's very very good at holding it until a potty is offered when we're out of the house, not so much at home.

What is the progression like from ECing to potty learning, or do we just keep up with EC until he decides on his own to use the potty exclusively?  Any good resources on potty learning with an under 2 year old?

Thanks!

So, here is my brief update.  DS is still pooping on the potty no problem (thank goodness!) but is going through a bit of a pee strike with DH and I.  I guess we maybe have to back-off offering?  However, he's been taking himself to the potty for our nanny!  He'll go and sit on his little potty to pee!  At least he's cooperating for her!

Edited by nstewart - 1/13/12 at 8:47am

[tri31]

I'm sure everyone will have a had a unique experience with the transition. In our case, this is the age where they want to do everything themselves. Feeding themselves, undressing themselves, and to potty or play. When my older son was 17 months he was just ending a 2 month (total) strike when he started signing consistantly for potty. He doesn't like to be messy. My 20 month old, could care less if he is a wet or not. He only goes when he climbs up on the potty and has made the choice himself. I still take him after he wakes and when it is obvious, but it is clear the ball is in his court. My issue, I can't pay enough attention to the subtle cues (we are already a family of 6 going on 7) and he hasn't decided that he is going to "tell" mom it's time to go potty. Yet, just a matter of time, though.  

[flyrabbitfly]

In our experience this age is a very delicate balancing act. He will either start to want to use the potty on his own, or start to want to not use it as a means of expressing his autonomy, if he isn't getting enough of that in other areas, or if you are too eager for him to graduate and he senses that pressure.

It is difficult when we are used to  keeping all this poo/pee stuff under control to let go of that control and give it to your son. It will probably mean some more misses for a bit, but if you can just back off from it and let him know, it's up to you now to take yourself, or to let mama know, or even just tell him, the potty is in the corner when you think he might need it, but avoid making it something you feel strongly about at this stage, he will sort of naturally start to make use of his abilities. If he can hold it out of the house, he can hold it at home, but he is either so used to you taking the initiative, or he is using the potty as a way to tell you, "I do what I want!", or he isn't quite at the mind milestone where he has put it all together yet, but that is JUST around the corner. At some point he will want to put it where everyone else does, in the potty. The less pressure he senses from you to do so, the easier it will be for him to just make use of what you've taught him and what he can do and take control of going to the potty. Continue to clean up a miss as matter of factly as possible- "hey, that's your pee-pee... where does the pee go?... In the potty!" was my usual miss-response, in an I Spy tone, like it is a game...

We made it through moving to the Far East at 17 mo, which I was sure would result in a massive potty strike, but was not even a hiccup. DS is 19 mo and has been taking most of the initiative himself since we got here. The key, I believe, was to be as nonchalant as possible, and at the first sign of him refusing an offer when I knew he had to go, I stopped offering, and let him take the reigns. I still sometimes give a hint: hey there is  a potty right there, by the plant, in the corner, etc if he is busy and things look imminent. If he doesn't choose to use it, he doesn't pee on the floor- he knows how long he can hold it. He goes later when he is ready. I don't keep pestering him, because that just makes him irritated with the whole potty business. At some point, he knows better than you what he can do and you have to trust him:).

Good luck!

[DsMamma]

ETA that I haven't done EC myself (with this babe) but have been very curious and interested based on my cousin's experience.  So sorry if this isn't helpful, she just went through this stage though.

My cousin found at this age that what PP suggested, letting go and letting them be independent was helpful!  Her daughter never liked being wet so this seemed very effective.

[Tjej]

DS was a little younger, but at 15 months we switched to undies and it went very well.  I am not sure what the difference is between EC and potty learning in a toddler...  For us the next step for success at that age was expecting success.  He knew what diapers were for and would use them too, so going full time underwear meant he had some accidents but mostly just used the potty from there on out.

Tjej

[tri31]

I agree with the previous poster we have found that at some point diapers were a counterproductive. You'll know when the time is right for your situation. I knew the first time I took my LO out with no diaper for hours without even noticing. He seems happy in those training underwear.

By the way my LO is doing great as far as learning to potty. He still isn't telling me outright with the sign or the word but he is running to the bathroom consistantly and happily pottying all day at will. He is 21 months this week. 

[nstewart]

Thanks everyone for your responses so far!

tri31, I've never been able to pick up on any cues from DS when it comes to pee, despite much effort on my part!  He also doesn't seem to mind being wet, which creates more of a challenge as well.

flyrabbitfly, I think I will try putting out his BBLP again, somewhere it is accessable to him.  He certainly is starting to express his will in other areas.  No strikes yet, but he will give an adament "no, no, no" when I offer the potty sometimes, which is frustrating when I KNOW he has to pee and then does pee less than 5 minutes later.  I think you are right, I just have to give it over to him more.  Now, a question about this: he's been in trainers forever.  He doesn't undress himself yet.  Should I just have him run around naked from the waist down at home, and tell him where his potty is and to use it when he needs to go?  Or should I put him in undies only?  (I don't know how he'd take himself in that case unless I could teach him to pull them down).

tri31 and tjej, did you just do this at home or out and about too?  Right now we mostly use trainers out of the house, but they have a PUL outer layer so that if he does have a miss, his clothes are dry. Maybe these are too "diaper-like"?  Should I just ditch these and sew more trainers without the PUL and expect to need to bring some changes of clothes?

I think I'll wait a few weeks before trying anything new as I imagine getting back into our usual routine after a hectic holiday season would help with success.  Please keep the suggestions coming though so I can think on the best way to proceed and also prepare!

[Tjej]

I did it out of the house too, but we weren't having a ton of misses when I went for it.  We'd go to the bathroom when we left the house and when we got wherever too (for a few weeks).  I remember one wet outfit in the grocery store, otherwise I don't remember problems.  Oh, and one wet carseat once.  That sucked! :)

As far as naked time at home - I preferred underwear.  That way the mess was contained more, and easier to notice.  You don't know if JR ran off to the corner and peed there unless you go to the corner and check.  With underwear, you see JR is wet, you know he peed somewhere and can find if there is a puddle.  Oh, and training undies and sweatpants work fairly well because they are comfy and they soak up most of the mess.

The diaper- like-ness of things matters on how the child feels.  Does the trainer feel like a diaper to your child, or like underwear?  If wet, does your child feel it?  You said your kiddo doesn't care about being wet - is that actually feeling wet, or are you using some fleece liners or something like that?  If your child actually does not care that they feel wet, then I would not just go for it because I would expect a TON of misses and it would aggravate me.  That's just me.  If you can handle it with grace (and it won't wreck your carpet or something) then go for it.

Tjej

[nstewart]

Originally Posted by Tjej 

The diaper- like-ness of things matters on how the child feels.  Does the trainer feel like a diaper to your child, or like underwear?  If wet, does your child feel it?  You said your kiddo doesn't care about being wet - is that actually feeling wet, or are you using some fleece liners or something like that?  If your child actually does not care that they feel wet, then I would not just go for it because I would expect a TON of misses and it would aggravate me.  That's just me.  If you can handle it with grace (and it won't wreck your carpet or something) then go for it.

Tjej

Hmm, you make a good point (about how it feels to DS!!).  About half his trainers are lined with bamboo velour, the other half are lined with flannel.  They also are quite absorbant as they each have 2 layers of bamboo diaper flannel.  So I suspect he wouldn't feel wet if he has the bamboo velour lined trainers on.  I hadn't even thought of that!!  I have 6 pairs of regular undies that fit him, maybe I'll invest in another dozen of those (they are super inexpensive at H&M and you can find a size 1-2 which fits a slim 17 mos old) and see how things go at home and then brave a short outing or two.  He is better away from home so we'd be less likely to have a miss on an outing anyway.

Misses at home don't bother me, and we have hardwood floors so as long as he's not on furniture clean-up is easy.  Misses away from home aren't the end of the world but I'd have more difficulty not stressing about it.  I'll maybe use the PUL lined flannel trainers (so DS can still feel wet) away from home for the first while and see how it goes.

So, if he's wearing undies at home, and I'm putting the potty out for him to take himself, do I just teach him how to pull his undies down and if so, how?

Thanks!!!
 

[tri31]

My ds will not pull his pants down, so around the house he is usually just wearing a long sleeved shirt. When he was that age, he prefered to potty with me holding him ( facing the wall). I could tell as soon as I reached to pick him up if he was going to resist. If he tensed then I didn't even try to potty him. My son will not use the childs potty. None of my 4 would? No idea why, anyway. Count your blessing if that is a possibility, as it will make everything smoother. My son literally is getting up on the stool and positioning himself on the seat reducer. It freaks me out, but he is a born acrobat and he does it 10 times a day without blinking. So I am in there if he needs me, and I always know if he has eliminated.

Misses used to discourage me so much. But when I look at it from his point of view there are so many things that may be going through his mind. What looks like" I don't care if I pee on the floor" to me, may actually be "Oh I can't stop that this time" or "look at that now it comes right out". With mine, the ability to hold it came before consistant interest in getting to the potty. So maybe some kids need to work on one skill at a time, that being the case I personally decided that the important thing was that he was aware that he was going. If they are in the phase where they are just going to pee on the floor anyway, I like Tjej's oberservation that undies and sweats absorbed allot of the mess. I know with mine I can't let them out of my sight for a second, that's always the struggle, the misses happen when I am doing the dishes or whatever and then I feel remiss. But it's the most natural thing in the world. Why aren't I more upset that half the food I feed him doesn't get from his plate to his mouth? We are a team, so try things out and if it's to soon or a bad fit you can learn from your mistakes.

[flyrabbitfly]

Originally Posted by nstewart 

Thanks everyone for your responses so far!

tri31, I've never been able to pick up on any cues from DS when it comes to pee, despite much effort on my part!  He also doesn't seem to mind being wet, which creates more of a challenge as well.

flyrabbitfly, I think I will try putting out his BBLP again, somewhere it is accessable to him.  He certainly is starting to express his will in other areas.  No strikes yet, but he will give an adament "no, no, no" when I offer the potty sometimes, which is frustrating when I KNOW he has to pee and then does pee less than 5 minutes later.  I think you are right, I just have to give it over to him more.  Now, a question about this: he's been in trainers forever.  He doesn't undress himself yet.  Should I just have him run around naked from the waist down at home, and tell him where his potty is and to use it when he needs to go?  Or should I put him in undies only?  (I don't know how he'd take himself in that case unless I could teach him to pull them down).

tri31 and tjej, did you just do this at home or out and about too?  Right now we mostly use trainers out of the house, but they have a PUL outer layer so that if he does have a miss, his clothes are dry. Maybe these are too "diaper-like"?  Should I just ditch these and sew more trainers without the PUL and expect to need to bring some changes of clothes?

I think I'll wait a few weeks before trying anything new as I imagine getting back into our usual routine after a hectic holiday season would help with success.  Please keep the suggestions coming though so I can think on the best way to proceed and also prepare!

So we do some of both- alot of naked time at home and sometimes trainers or undies. Now that it is cold he usually has baby legs or rockathigh socks on to stay warm (more for me than for him, he never seems to get cold or to mind being cold). Even if he is wearing trainers and doesn't think to pull them down, him heading to the potty to use it is usually a pretty big sign and I just say, lemme get these for you first! IME the trainers (or "strainers" as some call them) don't catch a whole miss anyway so there isn't much advantage to having them on (with pants on they help more, but DS won't wear pants at home most of the time). We just use them out or when other kids are over to play, for modesty (more for the other kids, who are amazingly scandalized at a pretty young age, like 4 or so, by a naked baby).

Another thing that helps when I know he needs to go but he is busy is I say, hey does your teddy, soccer ball, marker, (whatever it is he is playing with) need to go potty? It doesn't annoy him like if I asked if HE needed to go and if he needs to go the answer will be yes and he will take whatever it is to the potty and make the psss noise and then I just say, is it your turn now? and he says yes and then he goes. He has lately started to be interested in stuffed animals and that is when we started this game but it works with all kinds of toys, oddly enough:).

If you can, have LOTS of potties- we aim for almost one per room. If there is a potty within sight of play, he will use it when he needs to. And another thing he's been loving lately is a little urinal. We bought it here in S.Korea, but I think you can get something similar on Amazon... he can't get his undies all the way off for the potty, but he can get his stuff out of the top to go in the urinal:)

Last but not least, occasionally if it has been forever and I know he is just too busy to go through the motions, I just put a yogurt container or similar in the right spot and make the noise and he goes, pretty much without noticing or interupting what he is doing. When I do this, I don't ask, because asking is interupting the play, which annoys him. I'll do this before we leave the house, too, so I don't have to worry about getting to a potty right away.