hallucinations or visual disterbences?

[vivica2]

x-posted in 'mental health'

my 5 year old son has been telling me for 2 weeks now that when he sits at the dinner table everything grows and shrinks in size. iv asked him if he sees stuf that isnt there and he says no, mommy, or sister or the cup get realy big then realy small.  it only happens at the dinner table. 

is this a hallucination..? everything online says a hallucination is seeing somethign that isnt there? what shoudl i call it int he mornign when i call the doc AGAIN. 

anyone heard of this?

[Emmeline II]

Maybe it is actually a vision issue? At the end of the day he may be feeling eye strain if he's been unconsciously trying to keep things in focus all day. I'd probably take him to an optometrist as well to cover all my bases. In hindsight, the first sign that ds was having vision problems was his complaining of eye strain in the afternoon; between the beginning of 1st and 2nd grade his vision went from "normal" to 20/75.

[vivica2]

thanks for your response. i thought that too, but his pupils get huge and he kindof stares even though hes still loking around and talking normaly. 

the best way to describe it is he looks like he tripping on acid or something. it was creepy!  and obviously quite scary for me....but he was laghing and talking normaly.   *sigh*

[cristeen]

I get something similar when I'm really tired - but rather than big/small, everything near suddenly looks very far away and vice versa.  It goes away after a few minutes.  I've had it since I was a kid, and never really thought any more about it. 

[ErinYay]

I get this, too, especially at bedtime- sometimes things look really far away or really giant. I've had this wonkiness for as long as I can remember. When I was young- like 10ish, I'd get freaked out, until I taught myself to kind of bring my hand near my face and really concentrate on it to put everything back into proportion. 

It may very well be in the wide, wide rang of "normal," but just to be sure, get his eyes checked and maybe put in a call to his ped.

[ErinYay]

I also have *highly* responsive pupils- they're atypically large in normal light *and* in bright light, which is why I always wear sunglasses outside unless it's dusk or dark. I don't know if it's a neurological thing, a sensory thing, or a within-the-range-of-normal thing.

[RJ11]

A few weeks ago my 5 year old son asked me to please stop the room from spinning when he goes to sleep. After asking him lots of questions I still don't know if it was from a dream or hallucination or maybe from just being tired. After 2 nights he never mentioned it again. His eyes check out fine so now I'm just waiting to see if it comes up again. My son also has really large pupils in normal light and sometimes stares off into space if not engaged in play or conversation. He has Aspergers traits but no dx yet. Hope you get answers on this- it's scary!

[Emmeline II]

Originally Posted by vivica2 

thanks for your response. i thought that too, but his pupils get huge and he kindof stares even though hes still loking around and talking normaly. 

the best way to describe it is he looks like he tripping on acid or something. it was creepy!  and obviously quite scary for me....but he was laghing and talking normaly.   *sigh*

I'd try to get it on camera; maybe set it up to record at dinner time to show your provider. I'd also type up what you observe (plus dates/times) and how he describes the experience, and give a copy to any providers you see about this.

The additional description above reminded me of something I've read on the boards before--a simple partial seizure, the sensory section in particular...

Simple Partial Seizures - AboutKidsHealth - About Kids Health

Sensory seizures

Possible symptoms of a sensory seizure include:

• a feeling of pins and needles or numbness in part of the body (these may spread to nearby parts of the body in the same way that motor seizures do)
• hearing ringing, buzzing, or voices that are not there, or experiencing normal sounds as muffled or distorted
• seeing lights or objects that are not there, seeing distortions or movement in objects that are there, or seeing objects as smaller or larger than they really are
• smelling or tasting something that is not there (often something unpleasant)

[vivica2]

got in with the doc today. over the phone she said it sounds like some sort of seizure or rwaction to food or somethign he ingested. 

thank you so much for all your responses, ill post after the apointment. 

-viv-

[chiefmir]

I was also wondering if the visual disturbances could be related to a migraine headache?  I've heard of some odd presentations in children, and it is sometimes underdiagnosed in my experience.  I can say that what you described does NOT sound like hallucinations to me at all.

good luck!

[vivica2]

doc visit went well. :)

she said it seems to her that it may be a blood sugar, hormone, migrane sort of deal. nothing too major because it is such an unusual presentation. she also believes that he has injested someting i am not aware of an that may be the issue. the first order of business is the pedicatric eye specialist in the big city, then a battery of blood tests to rule out toxins, check white blood cell count, and hormone/vitamin levels. 

thanks for your input everyone. :) <3

[Tjej]

My DD did this at one point and I was totally weirded out, then talking to DH turns out it happened to him too.  I found it on Dr. Google - Alice in Wonderland Syndrome, IIRC. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alice_in_Wonderland_syndrome

At the time DD had been very exhausted from not sleeping well with sickness.  DH said it was times like that when it happened to him too.  I think DD was 3 or so when it happened.  We haven't had more issues with it, and DH made it to adulthood with the experience memorable in his past, so I let it go.

It does sound like the child is on some sort of acid trip to me too.

Tjej

[Bokonon]

Originally Posted by Tjej 

My DD did this at one point and I was totally weirded out, then talking to DH turns out it happened to him too.  I found it on Dr. Google - Alice in Wonderland Syndrome, IIRC. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alice_in_Wonderland_syndrome

At the time DD had been very exhausted from not sleeping well with sickness.  DH said it was times like that when it happened to him too.  I think DD was 3 or so when it happened.  We haven't had more issues with it, and DH made it to adulthood with the experience memorable in his past, so I let it go.

It does sound like the child is on some sort of acid trip to me too.

Tjej

Thread crashing to say THANK YOU!!!!  This happened to me for about a week when I was 12 years old.  I never told anyone about it because it was so strange, but I never knew what it was until now!

[melissa17s]

That link to Alice in Wonderland Syndrome seems a bit suspect.  I tried googling to see what medical sites had to say about it and it does not show.  The wikipedia said needs citation next to each claim.  Seems like migraines with aura are the same thing? 

Op, to rule out seizures, like those that Emmeline II brought up, your ds needs an EEG.  EEG do not always catch seizures, but it will note if there are irregular brain waves.  

[Emmeline II]

Originally Posted by melissa17s 

That link to Alice in Wonderland Syndrome seems a bit suspect.  I tried googling to see what medical sites had to say about it and it does not show.  The wikipedia said needs citation next to each claim.  Seems like migraines with aura are the same thing? 

I've seen it described as a rare type of migraine aura which refers to symptoms before a migraine starts; a distortion of space, time, and body image; and as a synonym for a Lilliputian hallucination (but that is usually described as when things, people, or animals seem smaller than they would be in real life).

I don't know if there is an "official" definition for "Alice in Wonderland Syndrome" but I've found it referenced by doctors and in a study as to whether it is an initial manifestation of the Epstein Barr Virus.

[Tjej]

I wasn't trying to make a medical diagnosis with the AIWS thing.  I just found it a couple of years ago when we were dealing with it and from what I unearthed it seems like it is just something that happens to people and it doesn't mean some horrible neurological disease for all time.  FWIW, I didn't find a wiki article a couple of years ago, it was a number of random discussions on boards about it, and maybe an aritcle. 

If my kid kept on having episodes like that, sure, I'd book for medical exams and look to see if there was a real problem.  But if it just happens for a short time and there don't seem to be any lasting effects, the random stuff I found out in the cyberworld (and in my DH's head) told me to relax and it isn't necessarily a big deal.

EEGs are fine, but how much $$$ and time does one need to spend on something that isn't necessarily an issue?

Tjej

[cinnamongrl]

This was happening to my friends son. This was before his dx with aspergers & seizures. Just like the information that other posters have been saying and providing info from...but his cause turned out to be pediasure. And the combination between his neurochemical levels and because he doesn't make the right kind of digestive enzymes to properly break down casein, the chemical reaction resulted in a peptide chain being produced...similar to opiates. Casomorphin? Basically every time he consumed dairy products, it was like doping him up on morphine. 

[vivica2]

well, we had all the tests done, blood cell counts, allergy tests, thyroid levels, blood sugar levels, Pediatric ophthalmologist check, MRI....and all came back clear. 

i was really banking on  gluten or casein allergy since those 2 foods can cross the blood brain barrier like an opiate. but his tests came back negative. so i know its not casein. it still could be gluten however because that doesn't always show up. 

the doc has said that it looks like its hormonal and he will grow out of it. it still happens 1-3 times a day, every day.  I'm giving it 1 month (unless it gets worse of course) then I'm taking him to a naturopath and taking him off gluten. 

thanks for all the ideas ladies!

-Viv-

[crunchy_mommy]

Did you get an EEG? With the frequency that it's happening, I'd want to rule out seizures.

Also, is it still only happening at the dining table? How is the lighting there? Are there any other situations that seem to trigger it? Have you kept a food log?

[melissa17s]

Hope I do not sound bossy or pushy, but these are just my passing thoughts...

Hormonal? I would ask more about why they are effecting your ds that way.  What hormones are causing this reaction? Why did the doctor not do any tests to account for hormones that are causing the problem or was there an issue with the thyroid causing it?   How can the dr be sure.

I think he should have eeg.  I would ask for it to be scheduled around the same times the events are occurring.  Keep a diary and time the events.  Is he tired when they happen?     I would consider going to a pediatric neurologist with experience with migraines, sleep disorders and seizures.  

My ds had seizures for years before we realized what was going on.  He would space off.  Here is an informal seizure test that our neuro does not like, but psychologist recommended to rule out inattentiveness due to adhd: when he is spaced out try to get your ds' attention.  Make a loud noise or something that would rouse him.  If he responds, it less likely that it is a seizure.  Someone having a seizure can not stop until it has run its course.  Because some seizures can be short (as little as 3-4 seconds), this may not be effective.