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January 2012 Whatever Ladies Are All Done Having Their Babies! - Page 3

post #41 of 510
Thread Starter 
i missed a lot while out for the day.

haven't read the links yet about feeding. wanted to say that i wasn't suggesting replacing breastmilk with solids. i was talking about formula vs. solids. i don't consider formula anywhere close to being in the same category (not the right word but i can't think of it) as breastmilk. just from what i know about the ingredients in formula, i don't see that it's any better than solids as long as baby is getting a well-rounded diet of solids.

never quilted so can't help with that.

i have a bedrail that folds down. i only fold it when i change the sheets. otherwise, it stays up all the time. it's too noisy to fold and set up after putting D down. i read once about wrapping the sheet or blanket around baby and tucking it underneath to keep baby in place in bed. the thing i read swore it was safe but it didn't seem like it would be to me. they also make long pillow things that tie to the bed but they take up a lot of bed space.

carrie ~ that's the exact same thing D did yesterday during his naps. he slept so long after that initial waking that i checked on him 3 times.

groceries wth 3: what kat said. park next to a cart thing with a cart in it. put kids in straight from the car. if you have to carry older child, baby in sling, older child piggy back.

happy boys and big boys! love.gif E was 19+ at 5 months.

did i mention ryan's dad? i don't remember. haha! we are not in touch but i do have him on FB. he's the same idiot, just older and uglier. lol.gif to give you an idea, he just recently got out of prison and is now working as a supposedly professional boxer. but we don't talk or ever see each other.
post #42 of 510
Thread Starter 
I was about get mad thinking my post was lost until I realized that Annie and I must have cross-posted.

League! That's the word I was looking for. I don't consider formula in the same league as breastmilk so when I talk about introducing solids to a FF baby I don't make any comparison or anything in my head with breastmilk. So, yeah, I totally agree that one should continue to BF as the main source of nutrition for at least a year, preferably 2 and beyond if it's working. With formula, though, I'd think that anyone would want the baby/child off formula and on real food asap.

Dylan is not only able to spin himself around on his tummy. He's starting to schooch. He gets mad, I think, because he wants to go forward but ends up sliding backward on the wood floors. lol.gif
post #43 of 510
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarineWife View Post
I don't consider formula in the same league as breastmilk so when I talk about introducing solids to a FF baby I don't make any comparison or anything in my head with breastmilk. So, yeah, I totally agree that one should continue to BF as the main source of nutrition for at least a year, preferably 2 and beyond if it's working. With formula, though, I'd think that anyone would want the baby/child off formula and on real food asap.


Well, respectfully of course,  I disagree.  Hm.  No, I don't think formula and bm are remotely similar, but I do think formula is necessary for babies under 1 who aren't bf'ing.   Being that I haven't ff'ed, I can't say for sure.  Maybe you're right and that's why ff'ing moms are quick to push their kids to cows milk (or similar) at 1, but I thought that was more b/c of cost.  Not b/c of what's in it.

 

post #44 of 510
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baby_Cakes View Post




Well, respectfully of course,  I disagree.  Hm.  No, I don't think formula and bm are remotely similar, but I do think formula is necessary for babies under 1 who aren't bf'ing.   Being that I haven't ff'ed, I can't say for sure.  Maybe you're right and that's why ff'ing moms are quick to push their kids to cows milk (or similar) at 1, but I thought that was more b/c of cost.  Not b/c of what's in it.

 


You can look up the ingredients of infant formulas, sort of. They are kind of vague about exactly what is contained in them. Basically, it's supposed to be a balance of proteins, fats and carbs that are supposed to mimic breastmilk with the addition of vitamins and minerals. One can, theoretically, get all of these nutrients from solid foods. Obviously, you can't feed a very young baby solid foods. However, once they are ready for solids, I don't see what infant formula supplies that regular food would not.


I'm not saying that one should immediately stop formula and feed only solids. There is a period of transition during which formula may fill in gaps with nutrients babies new to solids may not eat but I still think that normal food is better than any manufactured food. The nutrients in formulas are manufactured. They are not normal or natural.
post #45 of 510
I have to think this thru more, but babies need a lot of calories, more than i think they could injest thru solid foods. Im sure in theory, you could keep a baby alive and healthy thru whole foods, but I do not think it's realistic or possible. They would have to eat so much, and to do that all with purees?? I think that is why non bf'ed babies need formula. Man made or not. Natural or not.

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post #46 of 510

Baby_Cakes, I think I agree what you are saying. Babies' bodies are designed to drink their calories and if they can't have BM, then they need it through formula, cow's milk, goat's milk, etc.

 

The more I look at the Sprout food, I think once DD starts eating solids, I will try some of the stage 3. It looks like those are chunky, not pureed, and they are all organic and I can pronounce everything in them. Some of the meals look better than what I cook!

post #47 of 510
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baby_Cakes View Post

I have to think this thru more, but babies need a lot of calories, more than i think they could injest thru solid foods. Im sure in theory, you could keep a baby alive and healthy thru whole foods, but I do not think it's realistic or possible. They would have to eat so much, and to do that all with purees?? I think that is why non bf'ed babies need formula. Man made or not. Natural or not.
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I think that's the key. Perhaps in an ideal world, then yes, every parent would be able to provide a nutritionally complete daily diet from six months onwards, and be able to discontinue formula use. But in reality... I just don't think it's practical... or maybe... even possible. Like Carrie said, the requirements may be more than a baby would actually be able to consume in that time period. Also the supplements that you would have to give... I'm not sure that would be practical to have to give. 

 

Lucky we have breastfeeding instead and don't have to worry about that :)

post #48 of 510

Annie - The sprout meals look good don't they? Gabe wouldn't eat them . . . oh well.

 

I don't know what exactly we will do with Norah. It depends on what she wants to do, for all I know, she'll hate purees. We have a bit to think about that.

 

I need to start doing something, I think excersise wise. I am far too hungry through out the day to consider dieting. 12 weeks PP and I am kinda stuck at about 10 lbs below PrePregnancy weight (which is great!) but I do want to lose some more. Also wondering if I actually should eat more? thats' hindered by a gum issue I have that I'm trying to resolve, it makes it painful to chew anything alot, so I am liking soft foods. it's mostly meat that I have a problem with. Maybe I should just go vegetarian! hmmm. It's a thought. Though I haven't had any issues with fish. maybe pescetarian?

 

In an ideal world, all babies would be breastfed by somebody. It's not though, so I do think babies should have formula until they are a year; it's super fortified with probably more junk than is necessary, but babies tummies are only so big. I don't think they could get all their nutrition from solids. But it probably helps round it out in non-breastfed babies.

 

Our squishies are getting so big! Did Kinder post pics of Everest somewhere?

post #49 of 510
Thread Starter 
I think you were misunderstanding what I was saying. I wasn't saying that one would or should completely cut out formula at 6 months and feed a baby only solids. I was saying that I can see how parents who FF would want to get their babies on purees and solids earlier so they would need less formula. Once you start giving your baby solid food, whether breast for formula feeding, you are at least partially replacing that liquid food. And, yeah, that would be in an ideal world where people prepared and ate their own nutrition meals and fed those same meals to their children. I'm certainly not talking about feeding a baby strained carrots from a jar 3 times a day not giving him anything else. But starting a baby on purees early is the same mentality as putting rice cereal in the bottle. It gives baby something else to eat so that she needs less formula. The rice cereal doesn't have much nutritional value, except that maybe it's fortified with some vitamins and minerals. I don't really know about that. Actually, that could be bad because a lot have iron, right? And that can cause constipation. Anyway, my point was that I can see how FF parents would want to start solids earlier by spoon feeding purees so that they could use less and less formula sooner.

If it's just extra calories babies need, though, they why wouldn't another mammal milk work to fill in the gaps? If you get raw, whole milk it has a very good balance of protein, carbs and fat. And, yeah, some people/babies have trouble digesting animal milk and have or develop allergies but they also have trouble digesting and have or develop allergies to formula. Most are made with dairy, which makes them just as likely to cause digestive and allergy problems as cow milk. Again, to be clear, I'm not talking about feeding a newborn cow's milk. I'm saying I can see the appeal to parents about switching a 4+ month old from formula to solids and cow's milk before the age of 1.

Can you tell me what is in the formula that is so special that a baby needs that over other foods? I'm really quite ignorant about formula so I truly don't know what's in it that is so special. I've googled and googled but can't come up with anything except the nutrient balance. And, other than that nutrient balance, there aren't any requirements or regulations on what can or cannot be in it.
post #50 of 510

MW: ITA agree that whole raw animal milk would be just as good (probably preferable) to formula. it's hard to find though in some areas. Before there was formula, that is how you would likely feed a baby that had no access to human milk.

 

You can be allergic to anything, and I think raw milk would actually pose less of an allergic risk than pasteurized, since lactose intolerant people can tolerate raw milk usually.

 

Oh, and I did get my haircut! it isn't as short as I wanted, I will likely get it cut again in the near future, but this is what it is. Sorry the pic isn't great.

b27aa782-1.jpg

post #51 of 510
Thread Starter 
I found this that lists the ingredients of one infant formula: http://www.enfamil.com/app/iwp/enf10/content.do?dm=enf&id=/Consumer_Home3/Infants/EnfamilPremiumInfant&iwpst=B2C&ls=0&cm_mmc=Digitas-SEM-_-Bing-Routine-Enfamil-_-Infant%20Formula-_-infant%20formula%20food&csred=1&r=3503139692

As far as info on why infants need formula even after starting solids, it's the same stuff everywhere I look. Continuing to feed formula from 6-12 months ensures adequate nutrient intake. I still really don't get it. Personally, I think it's more about having easy control over what baby eats rather than baby needing the formula. I mean, you could provide baby with all the nutrients s/he needs through solid foods after a short transitional period. However, docs can't quantify the nutrients in the solids an individual feeds her baby. They can easily quantify total nutrients baby is getting from the amount of formula s/he eat daily. Plus, I think that they probably don't trust that parents understand how, can or will feed their babies adequately, which may true for most of the population.

there are two reasons i don't trust the recommendations that babies on formula need it until 12 months. first, it's a profit driven industry. the bottom line is about making money, not necessarily what is best for people. second, the people making that recommendation are still saying that you must start with cereals and purees as baby's first foods. "adult" table foods aren't recommended until after a year. seems to me those people don't really know much about feeding babies and are just perpetuating the party line, so to speak.
post #52 of 510
Thread Starter 
Very cute haircut, Kat.
post #53 of 510
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarineWife View Post
 I was saying that I can see how parents who FF would want to get their babies on purees and solids earlier so they would need less formula. Once you start giving your baby solid food, whether breast for formula feeding, you are at least partially replacing that liquid food. And, yeah, that would be in an ideal world where people prepared and ate their own nutrition meals and fed those same meals to their children. I'm certainly not talking about feeding a baby strained carrots from a jar 3 times a day not giving him anything else. But starting a baby on purees early is the same mentality as putting rice cereal in the bottle. It gives baby something else to eat so that she needs less formula. The rice cereal doesn't have much nutritional value, except that maybe it's fortified with some vitamins and minerals. I don't really know about that. Actually, that could be bad because a lot have iron, right? And that can cause constipation. Anyway, my point was that I can see how FF parents would want to start solids earlier by spoon feeding purees so that they could use less and less formula sooner.
If it's just extra calories babies need, though, they why wouldn't another mammal milk work to fill in the gaps? If you get raw, whole milk it has a very good balance of protein, carbs and fat. And, yeah, some people/babies have trouble digesting animal milk and have or develop allergies but they also have trouble digesting and have or develop allergies to formula. Most are made with dairy, which makes them just as likely to cause digestive and allergy problems as cow milk. Again, to be clear, I'm not talking about feeding a newborn cow's milk. I'm saying I can see the appeal to parents about switching a 4+ month old from formula to solids and cow's milk before the age of 1.
Can you tell me what is in the formula that is so special that a baby needs that over other foods? I'm really quite ignorant about formula so I truly don't know what's in it that is so special. I've googled and googled but can't come up with anything except the nutrient balance. And, other than that nutrient balance, there aren't any requirements or regulations on what can or cannot be in it.


Oh I see now.  Yes that goes along with most thinking, I believe, of weaning off the bottle by 1, getting them off formula and onto solid food by 1.  I also see how that causes trouble for mamas who nurse past infancy.  

 

I guess I meant it's not just calories they need, but that every calorie has to be nutrient dense.  It's the same reason when a mama on a bf'ing challenges thread wanted to add gelatin to her babys bottle to fill her up more, I thought that could be harmful.  B/c it would fill that baby's belly with non-nutrient dense matter.  

 

I don't think anything in it is magical or special - just that it mimics breastmilk in the nutrition aspect.  It isn't living tissue the way bm is, and it obv doesn't have the unique properties bm does, but unlike combining corn syrup and evaporated milk, it has vitamins, minerals, fatty acids, protein and carbohydrate in the correct proportions.  

 

I found an article this morning about how maybe instead of criticising formula/ff'ing moms, we all need to fight harder for regulations and safety.  There are some moms who can't bf.  The reason why is moot.  If we are really concerned about what is best for babies, maybe we need to shift our focus to the companies making the formula and not those who choose to use it.

 

Kat - looks cute!!  Argh.  Making me want to cut mine even more!!

 

post #54 of 510

Carrie: go for it!

 

and yes, beat up the companies, not the mamas! surely they could make that stuff more "natural"? I have noticed they are starting to stage it, so it changes with baby like breastmilk, but they won't ever be able to really do so; since BM changes daily.

 

and you know (I hate it to say this - but) I am sure I wasn't the only one fed the old-school "formula" of evap milk+caro syrup.  The only thing that is is just calorie dense; can't say it's balanced. I know rice cereal started around 8 weeks and probably fruits and veggies around 4 months. and I survived (not saying I'm "fine" exactly) but I think the obesity epidemic we have is as much due to what we *were* fed as infants as to what we are currently eating now.

 

I shouldn't be, but I was totally bummed that I was only able to get 5 oz this morning when I pumped. I normally get 8-9. think I need to put Norah to the breast more, plus more water. and eat more (healthy) food. (I say I shouldn't be bummed, because for most people 5 oz is great!)

 

 

 

post #55 of 510
Thread Starter 
I wasn't meaning to criticize FF parents. Again, I was saying that I can see how something like the Baby Bullet would appeal to them more and that might be even better to start using at 4 months rather than continuing with just formula for a longer period. I strongly believe that real, natural food is better than any manufactured food whenever possible (as I know you all do, too). Although, I'm sure plenty of BF mamas buy that thing, too, if for no other reason than because all the recommendations out there say to start baby on purees.

That really annoyed me as I was reading all the stuff about feeding babies this morning. Everything I read said to start baby on cereal and then purees and not "adult" food and not to start meat until 8+ months, I believe. I seriously doubt that the LLL would put dangerous recommendations in their book about starting babies on table food and even feeding shredded chicken as a first food. Maybe that's for older babies, though, if you don't start solids until 9+ months. I think the LLL says 6-9 months to start solids, rather than the 4-6 months that so many doctors recommend.

Kat ~ You were born in the 80's, right? Do you know why your parents didn't use commercial formula?

My mom says that her mom didn't breastfeed. She tried to breastfeed my mother, the oldest, for a few weeks but gave up. Don't know what she fed her babies instead. That was in the 40s. My mom said she'd ask my aunt what she fed her babies because she probably did whatever their mom did.
post #56 of 510

I didn't think you were critizing FF mamas, but so much out there does. Kind of like the obesity posters/billboards/commercials in GA - they are really critisizing parents. the last line in the article is one ITA with (article is in the Huffington Post; saw a link to it on FB) - we need to fight obesity, not the obese.

 

As for why not commercial formula? - partly the expense of it; I'm sure it's never been cheap. and partly because the evap milk combo is what my Gran fed all 5 of her kids and mom lived with Gran when she had me, so would have just gone along with it. I was born in 1981. My sister was born in 1988 and she was fed commercial formula (mom bf'd her 2 months and stopped b/c she didn't like it). I think she ended up on soy formula because she had major reflux issues.

 

Totally OT (but isn't everything??) I just ordered Norah some bows off of Etsy! I didn't think I'd be into all that, but I just can't help it :D

post #57 of 510
Thread Starter 
ok, whew! it's hard for me to find that line between encouraging and promoting breastfeeding without offending or upsetting people who don't. it seems like no matter what i say someone is going to get upset about it. then i think eff it. i'll either say whatever i want and not care or i won't say anything at all. like my friend on FB who said she was harassed daily about feeding her baby poison. i'm pretty sure that came from her family and not security personnel in stores and strangers in public in the way breastfeeding women are harassed. i really didn't want to get into it with her so i didn't say much in response.

but the facts are the facts. breastmilk is what babies are supposed to eat. at the breast is the way they are supposed to get it. it's not just best. it's normal. no other substance, even specially manufactured baby food, is an equal substitute. and there are risks to manufactured foods. we are basically at the mercy of the manufacturers in hopes that they are trustworthy and do the right thing. even with the best quality and safety controls in place, bad things happen. i just read a blog post today about how stores sell expired infant formula and baby food because they can. i don't know how dangerous that is but there must be an expiration date for a reason.
post #58 of 510

Well and to follow up on what you are saying MW, when you are dealing with preemies and other babies w/medical issues, you are advised to use already prepared formula rather than the powder because it can be contaminated or the water used to mix it can be contaminated. That's pretty scary.

 

You know there is a LOT of info out there about starting babies on solids at 4-6 months w/rice cereal first followed by purees. That made me remember something from when my goddaughter was like 7-8 months old. I was taking care of her one evening and her mom was showing  me what to feed her for dinner. M had this little booklet that was put out by a major manufacturer (can't recall now but maybe a formula company or perhaps Gerber?) and it was this timeline for introducing solids to your baby. She was following it to the LETTER including amounts of cereal and spoonfuls of puree to give per meal. She's an older first time mom and has little to no experience with infants so I guess she figured that was the best info? I didn't say anything at the time because I figured she had done her research and that's what she wanted to do but now I wish I had said something. A few months later, she made a reference to turning O FF at her 1st b-day and I spoke up about that and she was so thankful because she just didn't know.

post #59 of 510
Thread Starter 
i think that's what i did with ryan. i don't remember the specifics now but i do vaguely remember directions about feeding certain amounts of baby food a certain number of times a day. he also self-weaned in his 13th month so...i don't think that's very good advice for breastfeeding moms. although, i guess many do want to fully wean at around a year.

i'm in a glum mood today. i've felt this way since new year's day. not sure what's going on. maybe hormones because i've had a lot of ewcf the last 3-4 days. i've been thinking about taking some of my placenta capsules. or maybe i should try the tincture.
post #60 of 510

Yeah she weaned at pretty much exactly O's first b-day but she had about a month of frozen milk stored so O got that for a month and then was switched to cow's milk. I don't get it but it's her kid so she can do what she wants. My issue w/their feeding habits is that she was trying to impose them on Ava and that's just not going to work for a variety of reasons. I want DD fed on demand, not when the clock dictates. Also, she has to eat a certain amount so she doesn't get dehydrated and die. Little things like that. DD is only there for a couple of hours each day now so not a big deal.

 

Oh did I tell you guys that I'm having a hard time finding the pacifiers that DD loves? I used to buy them at Target and they seem to not be stocking them any longer. When we were out of town this weekend, our hotel had a Target right next store and I bought them out! They only had four packs left. I sent a pic of them to my sister so she can check her Target since she's coming down this weekend. We will be in a world of hurt if we can't get more pacis! DD LOVES them! She has started holding one in her hand and one in her mouth when she goes to sleep. ROTFLMAO.gif

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