gifted 4 year old LOVES preschool...... *sigh* - Page 2

[moominmamma]

Originally Posted by DariusMom 

Why did you send her to pre-school in the first place then?

I think a fair number of homeschooling parents believe that if schools were like preschools, they'd be happy with them: optional attendance, imagination- and play-based learning, emphasis on social time, half-day or part-time enrolment allowed, high adult-child ratios, self-directed learning centres, open-ended activities. Really, for a parent skeptical about tightly-controlled government-regulated academic schooling system fraught with standardized testing mania, there's a lot to like about preschools.

Miranda

[umami_mommy]

Originally Posted by lasciate 

It would help explain why you sent her to school when you say you think it is bad for children.

why does it matter? why do i need to explain why she went to preschool? 

if you read my OP carefully, i said what her pre-K class focuses on. if i could find a 1/2 day K that was similar, i'd be open to letting her go. pre-school ain't school. as we all know. the afternoon program she goes to once a week is just like pre-K for older kids. (my son went for 2 years) i do think school is bad for kids. AND i can still send her to a non-typical pre-k class and be okay with that. like i said, "and, also," not "either, or." 

[purslaine]

Unlike many on this thread, I think you make the call.  She is 5 - if you do not want her to go to school, do not send her.

I am, however, concerned with a bit of a disconnect I am seeing - you are saying this is a child who loves to be busy and social - yet you do not have the money for it.

Are there free resources where you live to fill her up?  Co-ops, libraries, parks?  Does she have neighbourhood friends and/or can you try hard to keep up her school friends?

I would also help her to cultivate a need not to be so busy - or to self entertain.  I know it does not seem to be how she is wired, but I think it is a good life skill and worth cultivating.    Maybe try for an activity every second day?

I agree with you that some K programs are fine. You might be able to buy yourself another year, while you work on building your community and resources for grade 1 plus.

good luck!

[umami_mommy]

Originally Posted by kathymuggle 

I would also help her to cultivate a need not to be so busy - or to self entertain.  I know it does not seem to be how she is wired, but I think it is a good life skill and worth cultivating.    Maybe try for an activity every second day?

do you have ideas on how to do this? i'd love to help her with this but don't have a clue!

[purslaine]

You know - I said "not so busy" but perhaps what I really meant was self-entertain.  There is nothing wrong with busy-ness if that is how she is wired.   

I think I would take a two pronged approach:

1.  I would be unavailable (even for very short periods of time) when she is restless and looking for something to do.  She might need to get the message that her restlessness is her problem, and she needs to fix it.  By unavailable it would be best to do it when it was genuine - fixing supper, finishing a chapter, etc.  

2.  I would try and create a resource rich environment.  What does she like to do?  Can you make sure she has the stuff required for her chosen activities around?  If she is very used to you supplying activities for her, it might not be apparent what her preferred activities are.  You might have to start with number one, and number 2 will hopefully start to present itself.

I am trying to think back on when mine were 5, and to be frank they could blow through activities pretty quickly.  I think the things they did the longest at those points were play outside, and play with each other.  Things like playdoh or lego were fun - but they went through them fast.

[umami_mommy]

1.) if i not around (even for 10 mins of taking a shower), Bad Things happen.  but it's improving slightly as she gets older. 

2.) i'm not sure i *could* have a more "enriched" environment!  but i do think we need more organization for her. 

this was this morning: she doesn't like to be alone downstairs if i am showering. her bro was sleeping late. so i said to come upstairs with me and play in her room while i showered. she goes in there, comes out 10 seconds later "my room is no fun without my friends." so she gets a game, demands i play with her. i gently kick her out of the bathroom, she sets up shop in the hall right outside the door. and then demands i play out there. i get her fav dolls and tell her to roll the dice and move the pieces for them. this is a good idea, but i need to read the words for her. so i say, get another game you can play without reading. okay, this works she says. (i take really short showers) while i am in there she busts in, messes with the sink and then fills up the hair brush bin with water. (with all the brushes and combs in there). when i open the door to go get dressed, there are 3 games set up in the hallway! which i then have to jump over to get into my room! this was all in 10 minutes.  she kicked my butt before 9 am!  this is why i get so little done while she is at school. i am at home recovering from the morning!!

[moominmamma]

Sometimes I think an environment that is full of resources, possibilities and choices is just overwhelming for a child. I've probably mentioned this here before, but years ago my family was unexpectedly snow-bound in a small cabin with no toys or gizmos or kid-friendly resources with three kids under 9, and I have never seen such amazing self-entertainment skills and imaginative play. They played with a pencil, a piece of green paper, the staircase and some cutlery ... because that was all there was.

My response to aimlessness has usually been to suggest three categories of things as choices (art-related thing at the kitchen table? outdoor play of some sort? a cleaning/tidying/housework type job with me?), and then add a fourth choices which is "think up your own idea." I don't want to give my kids the impression that it's my job to solve their boredom but I do want to help them learn strategies to sort through the possibilities. 

Miranda

[Roar]

I'm wondering if there is much rhythm to your days. For some kids who aren't naturally self regulated, having a regular flow to the days can be helpful. If so maybe try working with her to make a routine chart to hang on the wall. It can include both together times and independent times as well as daily activities like taking a walk or cooking lunch. It doesn't necessarily have to be super detailed but it may be the process of working on it with you will help her better see there are times for play, times to be together, and times when everyone is doing their own thing. For some kids feeling like they got your full attention for a period of time can make the on your own times easier too. We had a while during the preschool years when daily "craft time" was golden for lots of self entertaining time later.

I would also see if it is possible to involve her in some ahead of time problem solving about the shower - not right when you are going to take your shower but the day before. Brain storm together, make a plan, try it and then evaluate if it is working.

[seawitch]

I'm in a similar situation. My kids love their preschool - I hate it. It's the lesser of two evils for us at the moment - we've been staying at my mom's house for the better part of the last year and they're away from all their toys, they share a very plain room that we can't decorate, there's no yard, we don't get to the park too often because it was hot here in FL... etc. It was less than ideal. The other guest room we're staying in, DH is always in playing video games loudly... there's a TV front and center in the house... In short, I thought putting them in preschool to get out of this stifling environment would be a good idea. Well... they get SO overstimulated there that even though they are totally happy there they're always wound up and hyper - and they take the other four days to calm down before Monday gets here and the whole week starts again. DS has food allergies and they're always having snacks in preschool, birthday treats, etc and he has to be singled out. They make crafts and have dollar store types of toys they get every week that they get SO attached to, they pick up bad habits from other kids.. etc. (There's also a lot of other good things about it - awesome teachers, a great outside area, they learn a lot of gardening, science, hands-on things, songs... etc.)

When we move (next month, squee!) we're just not going to enroll them in school again. DH loves the break that we get from them during the day but I don't think that it's morally acceptable to hand them over to public school that I already don't agree with, just so that we (the parents) get a "break". They're both super duper high needs, "creative" (destructive), have a wonky sleep schedule I can NOT do anything about (they get up at 4 am and it's godawful)... But I just really want to bring them home, calm them down, and do homeschool - not necessarily unschooling as NYS doesn't really dig that but we're going to work around to the best of our abilities.

My vision for the future is to calm the environment down as much as possible. Like today... I took the coloring box down. It had crayons, markers, a bunch of different coloring books, construction paper, some misc. craft stuff. I left it out for them to sort through while I made some tea. Big mistake. Huge mess everywhere, they were just grabbing things out and tearing pictures out of the books and taking caps off markers... I gave them each a few colors of crayons and one book each and they're now quietly working on their pics for abou 20 mins now. When we move I want to do this to the whole house, as much as I can. When we're decluttered, fewer toys or activities, they're more likely to enojy what they have. When they had one puzzle they played with it for an hour. When I thought that was awesome and bought them five more puzzles, they just did one halfway then aske for another one and then lost interest altogether. I can't wait to get a fresh start in a new house where *I* get to decide where everything goes! We're going for the simple, calm enviornment and I hope it works. And like another pp mentioned - routine. We need routine. We have no good routine and it shows. The kids are always anxious because they never know when xyz is going to happen. I think unschooling can work fine but some kids need more order and structure than others, and it can be tricky to muddle through, I guess.

[umami_mommy]

where are you moving to seawitch? i am in NY and unschool. 

[seawitch]

Really? That's exciting. We're NY newbies (well, we've both lived there before, but pre-kids).

We're looking into the Corning area right now. Whereabouts are you guys located?

[umami_mommy]

we are in the rochester area. 

[ChitownTracy]

.

Edited by ChitownTracy - 4/17/12 at 8:57am

[elefante]

Perhaps an unpopular opinion, but I feel that if you are unable to create an environment where your child will thrive, you are doing a disservice to her. I understand that no one can be a superhero 24/7, but if you want to keep her out of school because of your personal beliefs, then you'd better be able to compensate. Otherwise, how is what you're doing any better? We can't do your homework for you. If you would like some resources of activities and local unschooling/homeschooling groups or co-ops, that's one thing, but to say, "I don't want her to go to school and I cannot provide what she needs." seems rather pointless, and kind of sad.

[purslaine]

Originally Posted by elefante 

Perhaps an unpopular opinion, but I feel that if you are unable to create an environment where your child will thrive, you are doing a disservice to her. I understand that no one can be a superhero 24/7, but if you want to keep her out of school because of your personal beliefs, then you'd better be able to compensate. Otherwise, how is what you're doing any better? We can't do your homework for you. If you would like some resources of activities and local unschooling/homeschooling groups or co-ops, that's one thing, but to say, "I don't want her to go to school and I cannot provide what she needs." seems rather pointless, and kind of sad.

I wouldn't necessarily go that far.  The Op has expressed some obstacles and issues - but whose life is without obstacles and issues? As long as she is willing to work on it, and people are happy, that is good enough.  If she cannot meet her daughter needs after trying, that is one thing, but she hasn't even tried HSing yet.  

[umami_mommy]

Originally Posted by elefante 

Perhaps an unpopular opinion, but I feel that if you are unable to create an environment where your child will thrive, you are doing a disservice to her. I understand that no one can be a superhero 24/7, but if you want to keep her out of school because of your personal beliefs, then you'd better be able to compensate. Otherwise, how is what you're doing any better? We can't do your homework for you. If you would like some resources of activities and local unschooling/homeschooling groups or co-ops, that's one thing, but to say, "I don't want her to go to school and I cannot provide what she needs." seems rather pointless, and kind of sad.

you have to be kidding me right? you've been here less than a month, have posted 21 times and are telling me i'm kinda sad? what, are you a troll? my child is thriving.. she's one of the smartest, most active, most social, most inquisitive, most up-for-anything kid i have ever met in my life. (and i've known a lot of kids)  you act like my "personal beliefs" are something trivial. wth are you talking about?? she's *my* kid!! she doesn't belong to the school system or community at large! and no i can't provide her with *everything* that she needs... nor would i even try. i don't live in a cabin in the middle of alaska. that's why i belong to a community! i can certainly give her more of what she needs than a school.. and without all the life damaging crap that's attached. you seem to be pretty snarky for a newbie. maybe you should read a little more and comment a little less until you can contribute something constructive. 

[Alenushka]

It is not about you but about the child and her needs. You may need unschooling and consider it an ideal set up but your child does not, at least not now.

I have gifted children and school works for them. Not on every level but on many.  I can;t pay for Robotic teams and few other things  that come for free. My sons developed amazing friendships and learned many new things. 

Let you child go and see how it goes. Perhaps she will stop liking it after a few months....perhaps school is what she needs.

Children have minds of their own and while parents should guide we should also respond to their needs. Sometime the path they are own is something that we would never choose for ourselves.

My older son is a gay furry.  Not my cup of tea but it is him and I respect that.

[umami_mommy]

Originally Posted by Alenushka 

It is not about you but about the child and her needs. You may need unschooling and consider it an ideal set up but your child does not, at least not now.

no it's not. school affects every single person in the family. there is no such thing as "it's about her and not me." that doesn't exist in a family. a family is a SYSTEM. it works TOGETHER. all parts of the system affect all other parts. there is simply no possible way i could send her anywhere and not have it affect me, my son and my husband. i can't believe anyone who unschools wouldn't get his. i don't need unschooling. i *need* to believe in what i decide about my kids. my kids were born at home, i did not decide to have my son cut when he was a newborn. i breastfed, i cosleep. i BELIEVE that i must BELIEVE in my parenting choices, otherwise, what is the point?  i personally don't believe school would be good for her or meet her needs. and i didn't come to an unschooling forum to have people try and talk me into why schooling is good for some kids when it's not good for others. if i want someone to talk me into sending her to school i'll just go over to the gifted kid forum. or talk to my FIL for an hour. and obviously, my daughter wants to stay home too. as she was relieved when i told her i wasn't going to make her go to K. (read a little farther along in the thread)

[Pookietooth]

I have a friend whose dd sounds a lot like yours (except she's an only, at least partly because the dd's personality so clashes with her moms). She is an extrovert, and her introverted mom has had to widen her circle of friends substantially and also has joined homeschool/unschool groups and sent her dd to the local YMCA, which has a homeschool PE class (Seattle suburbs). She also can't be left alone for long, but it has gotten a bit better as she's gotten older. One thing that has helped is a computer, and also having a regular weekly schedule -- two days a week at the Y, two days a week for play dates, and one day at home. She also does an Aikido class. They do have several museum memberships as well.

[elefante]

You know what, you're right about my being snarky. I was almost offended, really. I do believe in unschooling, as long as someone can do it properly. See, I personally don't see unschooling as a way to avoid public education. I see it as a route for children who would thrive best in that environment. I came off as snarky because as a child advocate, I believe in what is best for the child. I was simply reacting to the fact that it seems you are unable to currently provide for your daughter what she needs to continue to thrive, yet denying her access to a place where she can get it. This is what I should have addressed [how to help you get what you need for your family] and I apologize.

But do you see how you say your child is thriving? This is how anyone [myself included, of course] would love for her future to be like as well. 

How can we help your daughter continue to thrive in an unschooling environment?

Is this what you want?

I can help you with that. I can suggest blogs and books for you, and I can even give you ideas for stations to invite her to play with a purpose. If you feel this is the best option for your family, then that's what it is and you're right.But at the same time you need to realize that most of us have the child's best interests at heart. If you say your child loves ____ and she is thriving with _____ yet you don't want her to ____ and you don't know how to provide her with an adequate alternative, then you have to admit it is a little bit odd for someone to read that and just accept it without question.

Anyway, if you'd like ideas of how to do this, please say so. My response will be quite lengthy and I don't want to waste my time going into it if that's not what you want. Again- I'm a bit confused by you, but I'm willing to help for your daughter.

Also, I have to commend you for your comment about how family comes before an individual. You're right on the money with that one.