gifted 4 year old LOVES preschool...... *sigh* - Page 3

[umami_mommy]

Originally Posted by elefante 

You know what, you're right about my being snarky. I was almost offended, really. I do believe in unschooling, as long as someone can do it properly. 

i don't think there is any way possible for you to judge is someone else is "doing" unschooling properly. my children have essentially opposite needs. my son is 9.5. i have been learning to meet *his* needs for a lot longer than hers. there's a learning curve here. it's not either i meet her needs at home, or i send her to school. she *also* needs to learn to be part of this family. she can't have *just* her needs met all the time. it doesn't work like that in my book. we are all learning together how to be together. 

if you are going to allow yourself to get offended by other people's choices and beliefs, you need to find another forum than MDC. you're not going to be able to steamroll anyone here. people will give it back to you faster than you can dish it out. 

[purslaine]

Originally Posted by Alenushka 

It is not about you but about the child and her needs. You may need unschooling and consider it an ideal set up but your child does not, at least not now.

Her daughter is 4.  4!

Around 4 or 5 most of us have to decide what educational path to set our children on. We look at what is available, we research, we search our hearts, we look at our kids, families, etc...and we make a decision.  No one goes onto the learning at school forum and blasts a mother for chosing to put her child  in Kindergarten.  I don't think it is appropriate her, either.

This should be a safe place for families to come and ask for help about how they can meet their child's needs while USing, without be told to quit USing or not consider USing.  There is a place for those conversations, but they are rare, and this isn't it.  

[purslaine]

You know, sometimes kids are just draining.  My oldest at 5 could talk your ear off!  It was so tiring.  He can still talk a lot, but with age he has mellowed somewhat.

I suppose we all can give you tips or ideas...but accepting that she is busy, likes to follow you around, and needs some entertaining...and that this is a phase whose intensity might lessen might help.

Any way you can get a bit of time off to recharge your batteries - it might make dealing with her busy-ness easier.     A YMCA program where she goes to childcare once or twice a week, while you workout, asking DP or watch the kids one or two evenings a week, that sort of thing.  

Are you against screens?  If you can tolerate them at all, I would suggest putting TV on once a day for a brief period of time.   Time it for when you need a break.  Recharging your batteries will do more good than any screen will do harm.  Audiobooks might work as well. 

I would also try to tire her out.  Physical activity - either one you enrol her in, or done as a family.

Lastly,  I would initiate a conversation with her on energy. Let her know that mommy needs some quiet time every day to recharge - that this is how you are built.  This is not about her - it is how your a built.  some places could be quiet places - like the bathroom.  You could explain to her that unless it is a serious emergency, you are not to be interrupted in the bathroom.  You could even work on using increasing increments of alone time.  Get a chart - ask her to self entertain for one minute, plot it.  Tomorrow ask for 2 minutes - etc.  Make it a learning game, and help her become more comfortable with periods of time spent alone or not needing mommy.  

Good luck!

[umami_mommy]

actually she is really fine without mommy (that's why she loves UPK). *i* am just not so sure that i like the "results" of her entertaining herself!! 

it's not really true, sometimes she is really fine playing alone. it's just not her preference. she prefers company. and i have to honestly say, i really don't think she would like school. she is the queen of multi tasking, and she doesn't like to stay in her seat for very long. she is very active. (a little ADHD like mommy? probably) 

anyway, i think everyone's suggestions about how to HS her have been valuable. thank you all very much! (and i am open to more ideas!)

[elefante]

Peace and well wishes to you and yours, mama. I hope that one day you can react to the words someone says to you over how many posts they've made.

Check out:

Counting Coconuts

Teach Preschool

Let the Children Play [a favorite to gather inspiration for indoor and outdoor play spaces]

Teacher Tom

Messy Kids

Play at Home Mom [my personal favorite]

These are all blogs with amazing ideas and resources for mamas and caregivers.

Good luck.

[Pookietooth]

I am not the original poster, but would say that we have some similar issues other than the fact that right now, public school is just not viable -- the schools in our district are very low-scoring and my ds has some special needs (sensory issues, separation anxiety). He loved preschool but it was a coop preschool and the teacher was fine with my staying there, which was definitely not the case at the local public school in the last district we were in. I think that she isn't saying that she wants to deny her daughter preschool, I think what she was saying is that once kindergarten and 1st grade come, she doesn't think her dd would do well there, and she doesn't know of any alternative schools that fit her child's needs as well as her budget.

I would say start your own parent coop, where perhaps each parent works one day per week and you pool funds to hire a teacher or something to structure things, but it sounds like there isn't a support in your area for that. What about some form of club such as a game playing club, where folks bring their own games to play? What are her top interests that could be done with others in a group?

[umami_mommy]

Originally Posted by elefante 

Peace and well wishes to you and yours, mama. I hope that one day you can react to the words someone says to you over how many posts they've made.

i was reacting to you telling me i was sad and offensive. not the kind of thing that brings good reactions around here. something you, in your 21 post count history around here, haven't seemed to figure out yet. 

what makes you think i don't already read those blogs/sites? i've been homeschooling a long time. i have 2 really bright, high needs children. i also run inquiry based science classes for HS kids. i'm pretty sure i don't need any help with online resources. 

once you run over someone the way you did, so you really think they are interested in your "advice?" esp since i am pretty sure i detect a bit of condescension in your "help." 

[umami_mommy]

Originally Posted by Pookietooth 

 What are her top interests that could be done with others in a group?

bossing others around? 

[ChitownTracy]

.

Edited by ChitownTracy - 4/17/12 at 8:57am

[umami_mommy]

Originally Posted by ChitownTracy 

see i had inquired about your son & if you were homeschooling.  I took time to write a thoughtful reply, which has gotten lost in the shuffle.  :/

i read it. thank you. i agree with everything you said. i did give you a thumbs up.  i read everything thing everyone wrote... if i didn't personally respond to your post it's because 1.) i agree and am already doing it or am working on doing it, or 2.) you suggested i put her in school and i ain't going there. 

[coffeegirl]

Originally Posted by umami_mommy 

you have to be kidding me right? you've been here less than a month, have posted 21 times and are telling me i'm kinda sad? what, are you a troll? my child is thriving.. she's one of the smartest, most active, most social, most inquisitive, most up-for-anything kid i have ever met in my life. (and i've known a lot of kids)  you act like my "personal beliefs" are something trivial. wth are you talking about?? she's *my* kid!! she doesn't belong to the school system or community at large! and no i can't provide her with *everything* that she needs... nor would i even try. i don't live in a cabin in the middle of alaska. that's why i belong to a community! i can certainly give her more of what she needs than a school.. and without all the life damaging crap that's attached. you seem to be pretty snarky for a newbie. maybe you should read a little more and comment a little less until you can contribute something constructive. 

I think this was totally uncalled for. :( You posted in a public forum, asking for advice and opinions. You get one you don't like and resort to ad hominem attacks on the poster. I lost count of how many insults you just threw at that poster, simply because she didn't agree with how you said you intend to deal with this issue. Not cool, mama.

It just makes you look overly defensive and hostile.

[moominmamma]

Originally Posted by coffeegirl 

You posted in a public forum, asking for advice and opinions. 

This may be a public forum but its use is guided by the UA and the Unschooling Forum Guidelines:

"Unschooling subforum is one of support, respectful requests of information and sharing of ideas and experiences. To uphold this purpose, we will not host discussions of debate or criticism. Disagreements about unschooling should be set aside out of respect for the diversity and varying interpretations and beliefs that we hold as a community."

This forum exists for the express purpose of mutual support within the unschooling paradigm. I wonder if perhaps newbies to this forum might have not been aware of its mandate being clearly spelled out like this. That's the nature of the forum -- opinions critical of unschooling are not welcome here. The forum is viewed by many unschoolers as one of the few "safe places" where one can reach out for support without having one's unschooling choices criticized.

Miranda

[umami_mommy]

Originally Posted by coffeegirl 

I think this was totally uncalled for. :( You posted in a public forum, asking for advice and opinions. You get one you don't like and resort to ad hominem attacks on the poster. I lost count of how many insults you just threw at that poster, simply because she didn't agree with how you said you intend to deal with this issue. Not cool, mama.

It just makes you look overly defensive and hostile.

errrr.. are you sure we're reading the same posts? she told me i was sad and offensive! because i was "doing" unschooling "wrong." i didn't see "disagreement" i saw her telling me that not only did she think was wasn't treating my kid right, i was posting here in the wrong way and so wasn't deserving of the kind of feedback and advice i was looking for. i'm not going to waste my time going back and quote her posts. and seriously, i'm supposed to let her abuse me because this is a "public" forum? i really don't care if i look overly defensive and hostile to whomever. i have lost track of the times i have come to MDC, honestly sharing what i need help with, just to have some person tear me a new one, call me a bad parent, tell me i'm damaging my kids, etc. i'm sick of letting trolls or other dysfunctional angry people abuse me on MDC. like the PP said this is a place for SUPPORT OF UNSCHOOLING. not to rip up other parents because you are too timid to get angry at the people in your life, and so you take it out anonymously online. besides, there were plenty of people who A.) understood what i was looking for and answered appropriately and B.) who gave me contrary advice and i answered them honestly. 

thanks miranda for pointing that guideline out! 

[dodgingflames]

I didn't see her say YOU were sad or offensive. She said if you can't provide an environment for her to thrive in, that would be sad, and I would agree if that was the case. But clearly, you are saying you are capable of providing her that and not denying her a fulfillment of needs. As for calling anything offensive, she referred to herself as being offensive.

I think they covered everything as far as suggestions go, but I have one unrelated to the question. Relax, and let it go. The internet will be full of disagreement in everything, and tone can be misconstrued way too easily. She was showing concern for your daughter's wellbeing. Leave it at that :)

I hope everything works out for your family. You seem to have it all under control.

[purslaine]

Originally Posted by dodgingflames 

I didn't see her say YOU were sad or offensive. She said if you can't provide an environment for her to thrive in, that would be sad, and I would agree if that was the case. But clearly, you are saying you are capable of providing her that and not denying her a fulfillment of needs. As for calling anything offensive, she referred to herself as being offensive.

I think they covered everything as far as suggestions go, but I have one unrelated to the question. Relax, and let it go. The internet will be full of disagreement in everything, and tone can be misconstrued way too easily. She was showing concern for your daughter's wellbeing. Leave it at that :)

 Elephant was initially offensive, imho.  Her further post were kinder, and I do believe she was showing concern for the OP's daughter wellbeing, but it does not negate the fact her first post on this thread was inappropriately critical.  

As per "letting it go", my sense is she had until coffeemom chimed in.  

I would be annoyed if I posted looking for support and advice on an USing forum and had a bunch of people tell me I should consider school. I imagine if the Op wanted advice of a more general nature she would have posted on the childhood forum or parenting forum.

[SweetSilver]

Originally Posted by umami_mommy 

actually she is really fine without mommy (that's why she loves UPK). *i* am just not so sure that i like the "results" of her entertaining herself!! 

Quote:

Originally Posted by umami_mommy 

1.) if i not around (even for 10 mins of taking a shower), Bad Things happen.  but it's improving slightly as she gets older. 

2.) i'm not sure i *could* have a more "enriched" environment!  but i do think we need more organization for her. 

this was this morning: she doesn't like to be alone downstairs if i am showering. her bro was sleeping late. so i said to come upstairs with me and play in her room while i showered. she goes in there, comes out 10 seconds later "my room is no fun without my friends." so she gets a game, demands i play with her. i gently kick her out of the bathroom, she sets up shop in the hall right outside the door. and then demands i play out there. i get her fav dolls and tell her to roll the dice and move the pieces for them. this is a good idea, but i need to read the words for her. so i say, get another game you can play without reading. okay, this works she says. (i take really short showers) while i am in there she busts in, messes with the sink and then fills up the hair brush bin with water. (with all the brushes and combs in there). when i open the door to go get dressed, there are 3 games set up in the hallway! which i then have to jump over to get into my room! this was all in 10 minutes.  she kicked my butt before 9 am!  this is why i get so little done while she is at school. i am at home recovering from the morning!!

Your 4yo sounds just like my 5yo!  She actually is great at coming up with her own games, and they are often just like the hairbrush game your daughter came up with.  Also, she is very clingy at other times.  I both love how inventive she is and dismayed at the colossal mess she leaves behind in her wake.  I have laughed and nearly cried at my dilemma about this.  I'm an unschooling mom, too, and want to encourage this kind of inventiveness, but regularly am confounded on how to make it fit with other goals, like a house whose floor you can trust not to break your ankles! 

My priorities are keeping the bathroom floor from buckling, everyone's ankles well and whole, and a little space in the kitchen sink for me to get some work done.  My 5yo has been known to make games of vegetable peelings and chicken carcasses (handled with tongs-- oh the joy and the ecstasy of being 5!)

I am a great fan of first-thing-in-the-morning videos (unlike some other unschooling families, we do set screen limits, including the computer, and including the whole family, especially dh!).  Makes the day start off just right..... 
 

[purslaine]

Originally Posted by SweetSilver 

  I have laughed and nearly cried at my dilemma about this.  I'm an unschooling mom, too, and want to encourage this kind of inventiveness, but regularly am confounded on how to make it fit with other goals, like a house whose floor you can trust not to break your ankles! 

I am a great fan of first-thing-in-the-morning videos (unlike some other unschooling families, we do set screen limits, including the computer, and including the whole family, especially dh!).  Makes the day start off just right..... 
 

Will you hate me if I tell you (kindly!)  to suck it up in regards to mess?

Young kids go through "projects" so quickly and do leave destruction in their wake - but this sort of free play is so important to fostering creativity, self entertainment, and I suspect brain growth.  It will not last forever.  I have 2 older kids and I can tell you this with absolute certainty.  I think the key is to tolerate it to the point where it is starting to affect your relationship or stress level  - then reign it in.  An angry or stressed mom is worse than kids having a lot of free play.

I agree with the screens in the morning, or an excellent cup of coffee - do whatever you need to that is kind to yourself so you can have the strength and mindfulness to meet the day head on.

[dodgingflames]

Originally Posted by kathymuggle 

 Elephant was initially offensive, imho.  Her further post were kinder, and I do believe she was showing concern for the OP's daughter wellbeing, but it does not negate the fact her first post on this thread was inappropriately critical.  

As per "letting it go", my sense is she had until coffeemom chimed in.  

I would be annoyed if I posted looking for support and advice on an USing forum and had a bunch of people tell me I should consider school. I imagine if the Op wanted advice of a more general nature she would have posted on the childhood forum or parenting forum.

I agree. I was more talking in general, when faced with disagreement. I know as unschoolers you will face opposition quite often...So it's a good practice to just let the negativity roll off your back, rather than reacting as if you have any reason to let them get to you :)

[Fillyjonk]

Two things that very quickly occur to me. First, in my book it is totally and utterly ok to send your child to school, or preschool, or whatever because they are high energy or whatever it is and you just need a break.  I am really not a fan of the school system, but I do believe, honestly, that its fine to use it for a break. Just be honest with everyone concerned. OP not saying this is what is going on with you but I just wanted to say, don't apologise if it is, and dont apologise if that is why she was in preschool. TBH, though I am extemely pro-HE and always wanted to HE my kids, my three children have ended up going through a very, very flexible waldorf kindergarten and I have basically used this time to get some 1-1 or 1-2 time with my kids. My family did need this. Those kids with loads of energy can be really, really trying and exhausting, and sometimes, the situation is just what it is and your job as a parent is to get you all through it as gently and kindly as possible. 

I think if you can't, or don't want to send your child to school, and you need a break (and, again, OP, not saying this is your situation), or you don't need as much of a break as provided by school or you don't think school would really provide a break yada yada then you need to look at other ways of getting that break. I think, for me, its really important to be realistic about my need to recharge. For a period of time after I started homeschooling my eldest I was out of the house most nights doing music stuff, mainly, or seeing friends, just because I NEEDED the time with adults and not with kids. I've adjusted now but he's also a lot easier. We all cope in different ways, the important thing, I think, is to be honest about how hard this job actually can be and realistic about your need for a break. You, or, I at least, need a break so we can care better for our kids. Its not fundamentally a selfish thing.

Second thing is, to be totally honest, if this was my child I think I'd put the ball right back in their court. I don't think I could cope long term with a situation where I had to be with one of my kids 24/7, not just around them but actively around them. (sorry if I misread this, but it sounded like whenever she is awake, at home, you need to be watching her). I think I'd need to be working with her to create a situation where I got a break too. 

Total long shot but my kids do sometimes get bored and want company when they have spent a lot of time with other kids. I find that they just need to work through it, and then they are great at entertaining themselves again. But they do sometimes have a day or two, say after a camp with friends, of saying they are bored without their friends. I have to admit I am quite mean about this and while I'll work with them to find something that they could do, I won't come up with a list of ways that I can entertain them (usually. Sometimes I feel sorry for them,its not nice coming down after a holiday). I do think its really important that they learn to do this for themselves. I also, genuinely, do not think boredom is a bad thing. Unpleasant, yes, if you are not used to it, but boredom, I think, is so often a catalyst for change. Wonder if, for her, after she's had a week or two to decompress from preschool she might start entertaining herself a bit more?

If you were in the UK, which I'm guessing you are not, I'd recommend finding a local steiner/waldorf kindergarten and looking into sending her part time (ours does very generous bursaries). Or approaching a state school (public school?) and trying to negotiate part time attendance. But I don't know what the options are for you where you are. I do think that a strong, secure, basically happy family will always trump any crap the school throws your way.

Edited by Fillyjonk - 1/21/12 at 1:54am

[umami_mommy]

Originally Posted by dodgingflames 

I agree. I was more talking in general, when faced with disagreement. I know as unschoolers you will face opposition quite often...So it's a good practice to just let the negativity roll off your back, rather than reacting as if you have any reason to let them get to you :)

love your user name! awesome!!